Cato's Grammar Grumble

[Iota]

In American usage, ground floor and first floor are synonymous. I know in European  usage they aren't. And I can't remember if the UK follows Europe or America in this matter.

The UK follows European usage, the first floor being the floor above ground floor.

Though actually when I was younger, 'first' floor did bother me a bit (the trials of life ..), as I thought the 'first' floor is the ground floor - the next floor up should be called the second floor. So the American way to me is probably more logical.

[JBS]

In Romanian, from top down:

Primul etaj > parter > subsol

Parter being a cognate of parterre?

And subsol would be cognate to sub-soil---the word soil ultimately deriving from either of the Latin words solium or solum.

[Florestan]

Parter being a cognate of parterre?

And subsol would be cognate to sub-soil---the word soil ultimately deriving from either of the Latin words solium or solum.

Exactly. Parter is the Romanian spelling of the French parterre and subsol is derived from the French sous-sol, sub being the translation of sous, ie the equivalent of the English under. Incidentally, sub is 100% Latin, cf. nihil novum sub sole.

Now, sol as a single word can mean three things: (1) soil as in its agricultural usage or floor as in its gymnastics usage, (2) the note G in music or (3) messenger (in which case it is derived from an Old Slavic word).

For ground proper we use pământ*, which is derived from the Latin pavimentum (if written with capital P it means the Earth).

*cognate with pavement, now that I think of it.

[steve ridgway]

The ground floor is indeed that which is level with the ground - the clue is in the name .

[DavidW]

The ground floor is indeed that which is level with the ground - the clue is in the name .

What about those buildings and houses that are on a hill and end up having two different floors level with the ground? What do you do then!?!

[Kalevala]

What about those buildings and houses that are on a hill and end up having two different floors level with the ground? What do you do then!?!

K

[Karl Henning]

What about those buildings and houses that are on a hill and end up having two different floors level with the ground? What do you do then!?!

The place where I interviewed is just such a building. I'll check how the elevator treats the two floors, next time. 

[Kalevala]

The place where I interviewed is just such a building. I'll check how the elevator treats the two floors, next time.

What are your initial impressions of how the interview went, etc.?  If you prefer, you can answer in your composing thread.

K

[Karl Henning]

Am I "misusing my mentality," if I think that a peculiar use of the noun?

[NumberSix]

This Kids in the Hall sketch about properly using a word would seem to fit. . .

[Kalevala]

This Kids in the Hall sketch about properly using a word would seem to fit. . .

I've never seen that show before, but quite funny!

K

[DavidW]

I saw this in the wild:

[Papy Oli]

Are they being searched for lupus ? 

[Cato]

A most curious phrase from advertising of The United States Post Office:

"Delivering Infinite Moments of Joy All Through the Season!"      

Not just one "moment of infinity," but "moments," plural!

[JBS]

A most curious phrase from advertising of The United States Post Office:

"Delivering Infinite Moments of Joy All Through the Season!"      

Not just one "moment of infinity," but "moments," plural!

I understood that to mean an infinite number of joyous moments.

To be honest, my attention was bewildered not by awkward writing, but by the presence of a Chanukah menorah in the background of a father and daughter joyously preparing some Christmas gifts for mailing. Father and daughter were perceptibly not white, so I have to assume USPS was trying to acknowledge the existence of JOCs (Jews of Color, in the modern lingo).

[Cato]

So, in America, towns or cities are often named after European cities or countries, and not always with the adjective "New" in front.

However, the pronunciation of those European cities can sometimes go awry! 

In Ohio, e.g. we have towns called Berlin, Versailles, and Russia.

Most Americans pronounce "Berlin" with the accent on the second syllable.

However, the town in Ohio is pronounced BRRlin! 

"Versailles" is completely anglicized into VerSALES.

And possibly most improbable of all, although no American referring to the country "Russia" would use the following pronunciation, local Ohioans referring to the town with that name say ROO-sha, as in kangaroo!

So, we were recently passing through Wytheville, Virginia.

We wondered whether the pronunciation used a voice or a voiceless "th."

Mrs. Cato was using Gladys Google 😇    to guide us to a motel: Gladys pronounced the town as WITHville!

Such a pronunciation could not possibly be correct...or so we thought!

When we asked the desk clerk how her town's name was pronounced, "Wytheville" with a voiced "th" or Wytheville" with the unvoiced "th," she looked a little embarrassed and said:

"Uh, no, it's WITHville."  😇

We were amazed that computerized Gladys Google was correct, because with so many place names the programming is very wrong!

So I have a question for our members on the island of Britannia: if saw you "Wytheville," would you also pronounce it "WITHville" ?

I ask this because Virginia is one of the oldest areas to be colonized, and am wondering if this is a pronunciation from 250 years ago or so.

i.e. The "e" at the end would imply that the "y" should be a long "i" sound.  And what about the "th" ?

[Karl Henning]

It's a poser!

[Cato]

So, in America, towns or cities are often named after European cities or countries, and not always with the adjective "New" in front.

However, the pronunciation of those European cities can sometimes go awry!   

In Ohio, e.g. we have towns called Berlin, Versailles, and Russia.

Most Americans pronounce "Berlin" with the accent on the second syllable.

However, the town in Ohio is pronounced BRRlin!   

"Versailles" is completely anglicized into VerSALES.

And possibly most improbable of all, although no American referring to the country would use this pronunciation, local Ohioans referring to the town with that name ROO-sha, as in kangaroo!

So, we were recently passing through Wytheville, Virginia.

We wondered whether the pronunciation used a voice or a voiceless "th."

Mrs. Cato was using Gladys Google 😇      to guide us to a motel: Gladys pronounced the town as WITHville!

Such a pronunciation could not possibly be correct...or so we thought!

When we asked the desk clerk how her town's name was pronounced, "Wytheville" with a voiced "th" or Wytheville" with the unvoiced "th," she looked a little embarrassed and said:

"Uh, no, it's WITHville."  😇

We were amazed that computerized Gladys Google was correct, because with so many place names the programming is very wrong!

So I have a question for our members on the island of Britannia: if saw you "Wytheville," would you also pronounce it "WITHville" ?

I ask this because Virginia is one of the oldest areas to be colonized, and am wondering if this is a pronunciation from 250 years ago or so.

i.e. The "e" at the end would imply that the "y" should be a long "i" sound.  And what about the "th" ?

It's a poser!

I should tell the following story: a teacher from Germany prided himself on knowing the quirks of English, both British and American.

Somehow the American state of "Arkansas" came up in conversation, possibly because of a certain 1990's president from that state.   

Now, non-Americans should know that another state called "Kansas," famous for being the setting of The Wizard of Oz, is half-logically pronounced "Kan-sus" or "Kan-zus."

However, "Arkansas" is not so logically pronounced as "Ar-kun-saw."    

So, when I corrected him (he had said "Ar-kan-sus"), he was both amazed and embarrassed, for he had been teaching his students "Ar-kan-sus" for several years! 

Fortunately, the odds that they would ever speak of Arkansas would be slim, as most Americans rarely speak about it! 

[Karl Henning]

I certainly mispronounced it my first go. And the best chance, perhaps, that a non-American has, if if a certain former President's birthplace might have been spoken of.

[ritter]

I should tell the following story: a teacher from Germany prided himself on knowing the quirks of English, both British and American.

Somehow the American state of "Arkansas" came up in conversation, possibly because of a certain 1990's president from that state. 

Now, non-Americans should know that another state called "Kansas," famous for being the setting of The Wizard of Oz, is half-logically pronounced "Kan-sus" or "Kan-zus."

However, "Arkansas" is not so logically pronounced as "Ar-kun-saw."   

So, when I corrected him (he had said "Ar-kan-sus"), he was both amazed and embarrassed, for he had been teaching his students "Ar-kan-sus" for several years! 

Fortunately, the odds that they would ever speak of Arkansas would be slim, as most Americans rarely speak about it! 

Yes, Arkansas one is a mystery for the non-native English speaker (and, from what I read, also for some natives  ).

Also very strange to me is Missouri. Why on Earth would a double "S' have a soft, "Z"-like pronunciation?

Another curiosity is the small town of Madrid, Iowa. The Spanish capital (the first-ever city named Madrid) is pronounced MaDRID in all languages I know, including English. Its Iowan namesake OTOH is pronounced MADrid.