Gurn's Classical Corner

[SonicMan46]

Hi Gurn - thanks for the additional information on Weyse - fills in some of my summary gaps, e.g. that 1801 composing stop seemed to me to be either an illness or a woman - 

I hope that others will 'chime in' regarding his choral works - would be a consideration for me; AND would like to hear about his 'other' keyboard works and symphonies - Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - thanks for the additional information on Weyse - fills in some of my summary gaps, e.g. that 1801 composing stop seemed to me to be either an illness or a woman - 

I hope that others will 'chime in' regarding his choral works - would be a consideration for me; AND would like to hear about his 'other' keyboard works and symphonies - Dave

You're welcome, Dave. I'm curious about that piano disk. Have you listened to it yet? Is it a a Steindörfer or a pianoforte? I'd like to get a pianoforte disk anyway. He appeals to me, at least his symphonies do.

[Florestan]

 

I remember sampling this disk on the Naxos Music Library and liking it a lot. Never heard it in its entirety though.   

[SonicMan46]

You're welcome, Dave. I'm curious about that piano disk. Have you listened to it yet? Is it a a Steindörfer or a pianoforte? I'd like to get a pianoforte disk anyway. He appeals to me, at least his symphonies do.

Hi Gurn - the piano used is a modern one, but I cannot find a specific reference to the brand - sorry.  I've listened to the disc several times; piano sonatas 5-7 were published in 1799, and No. 8 in 1818, although likely written before that year.  As expected, the style of these works is rooted in the classic era; the writing is melodic & virtuosic - the pianist, Thomas Trondhjem, and the sound quality are excellent.  Some more information w/ the liner notes are available at the Dacapo website (might need to have the page translated).  Bottom line - I believe that you would like this disc, especially at the BRO price!  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - the piano used is a modern one, but I cannot find a specific reference to the brand - sorry.  I've listened to the disc several times; piano sonatas 5-7 were published in 1799, and No. 8 in 1818, although likely written before that year.  As expected, the style of these works is rooted in the classic era; the writing is melodic & virtuosic - the pianist, Thomas Trondhjem, and the sound quality are excellent.  Some more information w/ the liner notes are available at the Dacapo website (might need to have the page translated).  Bottom line - I believe that you would like this disc, especially at the BRO price!  Dave

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. I likely will like it.


PS - "Steindörfer" is just a hybrid brand name for a modern piano. My bad... 

[San Antone]

Re: Weyse

I found this on Spotify and am listening to it as I type.

[asin]B003NEQAMM[/asin]

So far, very nice.

[Gurn Blanston]

Re: Weyse

I found this on Spotify and am listening to it as I type.

[asin]B003NEQAMM[/asin]

So far, very nice.

Cool. Looks like the way to go. Thanks!   

[SonicMan46]

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. I likely will like it.


PS - "Steindörfer" is just a hybrid brand name for a modern piano. My bad... 

Yep - thought that was just one of your many Gurnian neologisms, i.e. SteinwayBosendorfer - 

That 2-CD offering does have quite a mixture - but, I'd be most interested in the 2nd disc w/ the Etudes (which received an excellent review on Fanfare) & the Christmas Cantata; not a big 'song' fan, despite Weyse's reputation in this genre.  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Yep - thought that was just one of your many Gurnian neologisms, i.e. SteinwayBosendorfer - 

That 2-CD offering does have quite a mixture - but, I'd be most interested in the 2nd disc w/ the Etudes (which received an excellent review on Fanfare) & the Christmas Cantata; not a big 'song' fan, despite Weyse's reputation in this genre.  Dave

I've been ruined by Schubert myself. I like a nice Lied on occasion. So that won't hurt my feelings. As long as it isn't warbled too much!   

[Karl Henning]

No Texas warblers need apply

[Sergeant Rock]

The Hobbit's next CD (Volume 19, details at JPC) in his ongoing Haydn Symphony cycle will be released next month.

Sarge

[SonicMan46]

Yep - thought that was just one of your many Gurnian neologisms, i.e. SteinwayBosendorfer - 

That 2-CD offering does have quite a mixture - but, I'd be most interested in the 2nd disc w/ the Etudes (which received an excellent review on Fanfare) & the Christmas Cantata; not a big 'song' fan, despite Weyse's reputation in this genre.  Dave

Well, I decided to pick up the Weyse CD of the Etudes w/ Jedlickova; excellent review from Fanfare (attached for those interested); only complaint is the length, just 50 mins. - now I wish that Naxos would try to package those symphonies since I did enjoy the one disc w/ Nos. 1/7.

[SonicMan46]

Benda, Franz (1709-1786) - Violin Concertos w/ Ivan Zenaty & Prague PO - a 1740 Giuseppe Guarneri del Gesu violin is used in these recordings - purchased prompted by an excellent review in the Jan-Feb 2013 issue of Fanfare (attached) - the Benda Bros (the other is Georg, Jiri, etc.) have been discussed earlier in this thread (so for those interested, just search on 'Benda') - now finishing listening for the first time to this recording which arrived today in a MDT package - F. Benda was considered one of the best violinist of his time (dates similar to CPE Bach, so in that wonderfully inventive transition era!), and these works certainly require virtuosity - highly recommended. 

[SonicMan46]

This afternoon, I left the post quoted below in the 'Listening Thread' commenting on the recording discussed; my first listening was w/ headphones; tonight because of Harry's negative comments, I'm now listening to this recording on my den speakers - sounds MUCH better, i.e. no noticeable extraneous noises (except on one movement) and the playing is up front w/o any reverberant effects - maybe just my 'listening space'?  I also found the email address of Stanley Ritchie @ Indiana University and sent him a message; of course, I'm not sure if that is still an active address and/or whether he will even respond, but if so, I'll report back here!  But if others have heard this recording, comments would be appreciated - this is delightful music by a composer who may have been the instigator of the String Trio? Dave

Wranitzky, Paul (1756-1808) - String Trios w/ Ensemble Cordia (Stanley Ritchie on violin - former 20 yr member of the Mozartean Players w/ Steven Lubin on fortepiano) - took a chance w/ this CD (added to help S/H w/ a MDT order) - could not find a review online but the composer, music, and recording venue (Eroica Hall of the Lobkowitz Palace in Vienna - where Beethoven conducted his Symphony No. 3, thus the name) was of interest - BUT, should have looked in our forum because Harry posted on this disc at the end of last year (see below) - I'd have to agree that there is a reverberant sound and also occasional extraneous noises (next room, outside, etc.?) - my first listen today was w/ headphones so will give the CD a try tomorrow on my regular speakers.  The music is certainly pleasant, the musicians excellent, and Wranitzky wrote 30+ string trios (kind of started the genre) - of great interest except? 

2012 acquirement. First listen
Paul Wranitzky learned the trade from Haydn, and developed the same easiness of compositional skills as Haydn had especially in his Chamber works. One should see him as a exponent of his time who simply wrote fine and entertaining music. Its serves good as background music, one can easily follow the writing and is not let astray by some difficult passages. I like the easy flow of his compositions, but it should be taken in short doses, its in that sense ideal music before going to sleep. No pun intended. Ensemble Cordia plays on very old Authentic instruments, with Stanley Ritchie on first Violin, a well know veteran in the old music world. The ensemble is led by Stefano Marcocchi, on the Viiola. They take the tempi at a leisurely pace, no hurrying at all, carefully considering all the finer details of Wranitsky's writing. World première recordings, recorded, unfortunately in the Historic Eroica Saal of the Lobkowitz Palace, which has a unacceptable long resonance, more then 5 seconds, which will distort already at ff. The echo should have been avoided, but alas it is not. So that rules it out for my recommendation for technical reasons. The music however is what you expect from this composer.

[Gurn Blanston]

... this is delightful music by a composer who may have been the instigator of the String Trio? Dave

Vranický, Pavel (1756 - 1808) (Another Bohemian! Gotta love 'em!)

Damn, sorry to hear about the SQ issues, Dave. I'm rather keen on Wranitzky. I was curious what you mean in that last sentence? His dates rather preclude him from that title, I would think. Unless you mean something else?     Wrote a lot of String quartets (56) and quintets (didn't count, but many) though.

[SonicMan46]

Vranický, Pavel (1756 - 1808) (Another Bohemian! Gotta love 'em!)

Damn, sorry to hear about the SQ issues, Dave. I'm rather keen on Wranitzky. I was curious what you mean in that last sentence? His dates rather preclude him from that title, I would think. Unless you mean something else?     Wrote a lot of String quartets (56) and quintets (didn't count, but many) though.

Hi Gurn - I'm not giving up on this recording yet, esp. w/ Ritchie on the violin - will do another listening on my regular speakers.  BUT, I think that you misread my last sentence, i.e. the reference was to the String Trio and not the SQ - paraphrasing from the liner notes, "PW wrote over 30 string trios, Haydn was not interested, Mozart wrote only one trio, and Beethoven wrote more but after PW's compositions" - SO, who was the 'father' of the String Trio?  BTW - my other complaint about this recording is that the timing is just over 50 minutes, they could have easily added another in view of the number P. Wranitzky wrote?  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - I'm not giving up on this recording yet, esp. w/ Ritchie on the violin - will do another listening on my regular speakers.  BUT, I think that you misread my last sentence, i.e. the reference was to the String Trio and not the SQ - paraphrasing from the liner notes, "PW wrote over 30 string trios, Haydn was not interested, Mozart wrote only one trio, and Beethoven wrote more but after PW's compositions" - SO, who was the 'father' of the String Trio?  BTW - my other complaint about this recording is that the timing is just over 50 minutes, they could have easily added another in view of the number P. Wranitzky wrote?  Dave

Well, Haydn wrote ~26 string trios beginning about in the year that Wranitzky was born and for the next 10 years. It is convincingly argued that he stopped writing them at the time that he started writing baryton trios en masse for the Prince. Mozart wrote 2 of them, the first in Bb (K 266) in Salzburg in 1777 and the 2nd in Eb (K 563) in Vienna in 1788. PW wrote his first ones in 1781. They were for 2 violins and cello, like all but 1 of Haydn's. The rest of them were for violin, viola and cello.

Boccherini wrote 48 that have survived. Of these, the first set of 6 (Op 1) is from 1760 and for 2 violins & cello (like Haydn's). But by 1772 he wrote a set for violin, viola & cello, then Op 34 in 1781 and Op 47 in 1793.

Not that I'm being argumentative, I am simply curious where they got that idea. I was hoping it was the violin, viola & cello form, but he didn't start with that til the mid-1780's...   

[SonicMan46]

Well, Haydn wrote ~26 string trios beginning about in the year that Wranitzky was born and for the next 10 years....

Boccherini wrote 48 that have survived..........
Not that I'm being argumentative, I am simply curious where they got that idea. I was hoping it was the violin, viola & cello form, but he didn't start with that til the mid-1780's...   :-)

Well, I'm not trying to be 'argumentative' in the least, just trying to understand the origin of the String Trio in whatever form; appears that Haydn & Boccherini would be the major candidates for this 'father role' in the genre under discussion? NOW, I probably already own much of Joe's & Luigi's works (late tonight will check my collection in the morning) mentioned, not sure @ the moment.  All that I can say is that David Wyn Jones wrote the liner notes that I quoted in 2012; the emphasis was indeed on the combination of Violin, Viola, & Cello, and the comments he made about Haydn & Mozart are what I already quoted.

So, this is about all that I can offer from these notes; Wranitsky was the same age as Mozart & a pupil of Haydn, so obviously knew Papa Joe's compositions - perhaps he wanted to contrive a different combination of 3 instruments?  Don't know and at the moment cannot add much to clarify the issue - sorry - 

Thanks for your valuable input - regards,  Dave 

[SonicMan46]

Well, this morning, I've been trying to better understand the development of the String Trio, especially the issue of using 2 violins vs. violin & viola w/ a cello.  Boccherini composed nearly 70 of these works for 2 violins & cello according to the listings in his catalog HERE; I happen to have 3 discs of these works shown below which comprise a total of 10 string trios, so many missing - there are some additional recordings on Amazon.

An already mentioned by Gurn, Haydn wrote 21 string trios, again for violins & cello, which are in Hoboken's Category V; in checking my own Papa Joe collection, I have none of these early works (from the 1760s) - the closest 'early divertimenti' that I have is the 5-disc set w/ Huss (also shown below); these are virtually all Hob. II works (except for a few marches).  In checking Amazon for Haydn 'String Trios', there are 2 recordings by Camerata Berolnensis & 3 CDs w/ the Wiener Philharmonia Trio - Gurn likely has a number of these offerings, and hopefully can share his thoughts (believe these may have come up before somewhere in the forum?).

Concerning the history of the String Trio, there is a short Wiki article HERE suggesting that Haydn was the first composer of this trio genre using 2 violins followed by Boccherini; once the viola replaced one of the violins (assume Paul Wranitzky was at least one of the earliest proponents of this combination), the trend really caught on into the next century, as seen by the linked listing of composers, many of their 'string trios' are in my collection.  NOW, I'm at least a little clearer on this subject - Dave

   

[San Antone]

Well, this morning, I've been trying to better understand the development of the String Trio, especially the issue of using 2 violins vs. violin & viola w/ a cello.  Boccherini composed nearly 70 of these works for 2 violins & cello according to the listings in his catalog HERE; I happen to have 3 discs of these works shown below which comprise a total of 10 string trios, so many missing - there are some additional recordings on Amazon.

An already mentioned by Gurn, Haydn wrote 21 string trios, again for violins & cello, which are in Hoboken's Category V; in checking my own Papa Joe collection, I have none of these early works (from the 1760s) - the closest 'early divertimenti' that I have is the 5-disc set w/ Huss (also shown below); these are virtually all Hob. II works (except for a few marches).  In checking Amazon for Haydn 'String Trios', there are 2 recordings by Camerata Berolnensis & 3 CDs w/ the Wiener Philharmonia Trio - Gurn likely has a number of these offerings, and hopefully can share his thoughts (believe these may have come up before somewhere in the forum?).

Concerning the history of the String Trio, there is a short Wiki article HERE suggesting that Haydn was the first composer of this trio genre using 2 violins followed by Boccherini; once the viola replaced one of the violins (assume Paul Wranitzky was at least one of the earliest proponents of this combination), the trend really caught on into the next century, as seen by the linked listing of composers, many of their 'string trios' are in my collection.  NOW, I'm at least a little clearer on this subject - Dave

   

Most interesting Dave.  I have neglected this kind of work, and I need to rectify that omission on my part since I think the string trio surely one I would, and do, enjoy.  However, the String Trio I am most familiar with is not of this period, but Schoenberg's.  I am probably more inclined to prefer the violin, viola, cello incarnation of the form rather than the two violin ensemble.

Thanks for the post!