Pettersson's Pavilion

[Varg]

Just listened to 6 with Trojahn on cpo. Very good. The 6-7-8 trilogy are my favorites as well, though I admit to not knowing 5 and 2. Nr 9 makes a strong impression as well, though youn have to be reasonably determined, as it's long and takes its time before it punches its points home. 

You should try the 2nd, you wont be sorry. Yes, the 9th is very long and very complexe.

[paulb]

Just listened to 6 with Trojahn on cpo. Very good. The 6-7-8 trilogy are my favorites as well, though I admit to not knowing 5 and 2. Nr 9 makes a strong impression as well, though youn have to be reasonably determined, as it's long and takes its time before it punches its points home. 

Unless your soul knows the Pettersson "language", you may not take right away to his music. I have yet to see a  disgruntled opinion about his music, at least those who are in the modernist camp, CM  Debussy forward.I find his unique voice starts at 6.
its 6-11,13-15. All parts of a  Grand Symphonic Cycle, nothing like it in the history of CM. Other than Wager's Ring of course. But nothing in the symphonic genre.
To newbies in P, if nothing at first, shelve the cd and come back some in some yrs. eventually it will "click".

[BachQ]

Hey Paulb ........ welcome back!

I wonder if Pettersson consciously (intentionally) created an interrelated, integrated symphony cycle (syms 6-11), or if there merely happens to be similarities .........

[paulb]

Hey Paulb ........ welcome back!

I wonder if Pettersson consciously (intentionally) created an interrelated, integrated symphony cycle (syms 6-11), or if there merely happens to be similarities .........

thanks for the welcome lots to read through, good to see others came around to Pettersson.
Yes, somewhere in one of the liner notes on BIS or CPO there is mention of this interconnection of the syms.
Though it doesn't take a   genius to  hear something that leads one sym into the other. Yet stand independent of the fore and after sym. . I guess   comparison would be Wagner's Ring cycle, Yes?
Shostakovich syms 5,7,8 may share some modal commonality, in this sense.

So the cycle goes 6-11, 13-15. Though i need to re listen to the 5th, last time i heard it, i felt there was still the Sibelius influence , the 6th  breaks all contact with Sibelius as mentor. Nothing wrong with the 5th, nor the 2,3,4. Just can't place them in the cycle. \Reacll Mozart's "last 6 syms", "last pc's" all clearly broke totally new ground. Something like that here starting with the 6th.
But should not keep one from enjoying the 2-5, not at all.

Glad for your question.

paul

[paulb]

Hey Paulb ........ welcome back!

I wonder if Pettersson consciously (intentionally) created an interrelated, integrated symphony cycle (syms 6-11), or if there merely happens to be similarities .........

someone over at the amazon forum posted today his experience of the 12th, which has been some time since i last heard it, so plaed the Choral Sym today.
I agree ith his comment thats it 'one of the most darkest" and brought up schonberg's Warsaw survivor and Shostakovich's Babi Yar 13th sym.
I found the 12th far beyond any dark colors of ither of those 2 works.
Its so dark and posesses such true symphonic form, less choral'like /more symphonic structure going on, that I may, and i fact will now officially include this powerful gripping sym to become establshed as part of The Symphonic Cycle.
6-15.
Now I'll relisten to the 5th which some feel begins the cycle.
btw i see tha CPO has the 12th as a  single release and part of the box set. I will order it to compare with the OOP Caprice. I hope te CPO capture at least close to this overwhelming emotiona Carl Rune (love his name) Larsson live performance.
Man, discovered a  new treasure in this 12th!

EDIT:
welp, i went ahead and looked at the CPO release, and luckliy enought there's clips 
(btw i rarely resort to clip listening as most of my cd buying is over, collection is like 99% complete with only Boulez to add),,,so as the clips proceed, I can can only say with unsubstantiated actual listening, the CPO and Caprice appear to be "not the same experience".
So far as i can tell ...you know i'm a  pro on the clip thing , that the Chorus on the Caprice has a  greater sense of density and power.
I could be wrong as to that opinion, its more conjecture, but enough to  keep me from clicking the BUY button. And sadly the Caprice is OPP, with 3 offered at amazon at $30+
I love the mellifluous name of the conductor , Carl Rune Larsson.

[paulb]

Hey Paulb ........ welcome back!

I wonder if Pettersson consciously (intentionally) created an interrelated, integrated symphony cycle (syms 6-11), or if there merely happens to be similarities .........

issues which dominated Pettersson;s life since childhood, struck deep chords within his painfull existence. Yeah Shostakovich , as with many other great composers also suffered on a  cosmic scale.
Suffering also has   a  unique individual quality separate from the generalized sense of the term.
This psychological journey that Pettersson found to be forced upon him , affects all his music and so the Pettersson voice with a  sense of One Language, comes out in all his music.
There's nothing wrong with this, though outsiders to his music might interpret that as monotone, yet the Pettersson-ians  know better that to stigmatize his music as idosyncratic mono-toned..

[Bonehelm]

issues which dominated Pettersson;s life since childhood, struck deep chords within his painfull existence. Yeah Shostakovich , as with many other great composers also suffered on a  cosmic scale.
Suffering also has   a  unique individual quality separate from the generalized sense of the term.
This psychological journey that Pettersson found to be forced upon him , affects all his music and so the Pettersson voice with a  sense of One Language, comes out in all his music.
There's nothing wrong with this, though outsiders to his music might interpret that as monotone, yet the Pettersson-ians  know better that to stigmatize his music as idosyncratic mono-toned..

Paul is that you in your avatar? 

[paulb]

Paul is that you in your avatar? 

yes, photo shot first day, after 2 yr absence,  in our reconstructed lakeview home. I'll have to try to load some pics of new Orleans post Katrina 2 yrs. You guys would be amazed at what i saw the other day. Totally UNREAL!
I have a  bunch of ancedotes and a  few horror stories, especially if you went  there at night! You'd feel chills down the spine. And there's no one around, just you and those "haunted houses", made by the hand of Katrina... walk down these streets off Franklin Ave around midnight say.... ,,,but why be afraid, there;s no one around, all deserted...I couldn't do it. Just the daytime was errie enough.

Listening to Pettersson's sym 3. i love how Pettersson pays respects and hommage to his great mentor   Sibelius, throughout  the entire second movement, but especially at 5:50 and continues on this "variation on a  theme by Sibelius" through the 7th minute. I'm busy looking where Pettersson draws that passage from in Sibelius.
Anyone know the section from Sibelius?. Anyone know?
Pettersson  wrote the 3rd in 1954/55, he's just testing his wings, and hints of whats ahead  in future syms,  breaks  forth , getting ever closer to finding his true unique voice, established firmly at sym 6.

I plan to hear the 4th then the 5th.
I'm not sure if i should comment about excluding any sym from "the cycle". Each has to hear and discover Pettersson's syms  in their own individual way. I don't wish to impose any ideas about order/cycles or such dogmas on these fine syms.

[Hector]

I cannot get on with the 12th and, yet, I was looking forward to this final issue in the CPO cycle.

Likewise, the 16th but I find my interest wanes with this composer the later the works are.

For example, I admire the 13th, 14th and 15th but love the central set of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 whilst liking the rest. I wonder whether, in the CPO cycle, it may be because those conducted by Alun Francis seem to me to be a cut above the others.

I shall need to give this composer a rest for a bit and return in time to the 12th and 16th.

That is not to discourage others in their enthusiasm for this, still, unjustly neglected composer!

[paulb]

I cannot get on with the 12th and, yet, I was looking forward to this final issue in the CPO cycle.

Likewise, the 16th but I find my interest wanes with this composer the later the works are.

For example, I admire the 13th, 14th and 15th but love the central set of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 whilst liking the rest. I wonder whether, in the CPO cycle, it may be because those conducted by Alun Francis seem to me to be a cut above the others.

I shall need to give this composer a rest for a bit and return in time to the 12th and 16th.

That is not to discourage others in their enthusiasm for this, still, unjustly neglected composer!

Hector
Good to see you came around To Pettersson.
Could you or anyone go to the 3rd sym, 2nd movement at 5:50-6:40 and let me know from which work of Sibelius does Pettersson draw from.
I listened to various Sibelius last night and can't find it. maybe a  sym, not sure, esaily recognizable, but i've been away from Sibelius for yrs now.

Here's  a  link to Youtube with Comissiona's live performance of the 7th, resolution, with the Swdish RSO.
I had the rare OOP cd but didn'r feel the performance was up to the standards of the CPO and BIS, I sold it off.
And listening to the Youtube confirms my original  5 yr old opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2SU1nu3Wn8&feature=related

[paulb]

You should try the 2nd, you wont be sorry. Yes, the 9th is very long and very complexe.

Varg. I tend not to suggest the 2,3,4,5 syms for anyone. I feel the 6th begins the journey into Pettersson.

btw how do you like the photo of Pettersson? It shows more about the man than the photo in your profile.
Schnittke and Pettersson , unlike any other composers in late 20th C music. Amazing they were contemporaries , just miles apart and speaking  a  profound language that only a   few can hear. Ahh these days we live in. Unlike any in history.

[Hector]

Hector
Good to see you came around To Pettersson.
Could you or anyone go to the 3rd sym, 2nd movement at 5:50-6:40 and let me know from which work of Sibelius does Pettersson draw from.
I listened to various Sibelius last night and can't find it. maybe a  sym, not sure, esaily recognizable, but i've been away from Sibelius for yrs now.

Here's  a  link to Youtube with Comissiona's live performance of the 7th, resolution, with the Swdish RSO.
I had the rare OOP cd but didn'r feel the performance was up to the standards of the CPO and BIS, I sold it off.
And listening to the Youtube confirms my original  5 yr old opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2SU1nu3Wn8&feature=related

I've  been keen on Pettersson for a number of years.

I have the 3rd on iPod and listened to that section. It does not sound like any Sibelius I know. Sorry.

[karlhenning]

Schnittke and Pettersson, unlike any other composers in late 20th C music.

Oh, I can sign on to that! :-)

[paulb]

Oh, I can sign on to that! :-)

HI Karl
Meaning...are you romantic-ISTS ready for this,  both like unto Mozart and Beethoven as in their day.
"Unlike to any others" If some care to remain fixated (freudian term) is a  long ago past, reminiscing over muisc our great-grand  fathers once listened to, go right ahead.
Pettersson and schnittke speak to and for  the unique, individual modern soul.

Hector i plan to write to a  Pettersson Page in sweden, maybe they know.
I know for a  fact that passge in the 3rd sym is from Sibelius, now where? The only work of Sibelius I do not have is Pjohola's Daughter, and may be there.
I'll get back once I get an answer.
Hey you Sibelius-ians that would be a  nice research project for you guys.And maybe in the research you'll come around to Sibelius kinsman, Pettersson in the process.
Things happen just like that.
Man I love that photo of Pettersson in my avatar. That photo reveals who the man is in his music, deep, profound.

[karlhenning]

HI Karl
Meaning...are you romantic-ISTS ready for this

Wait, wait, Paul;  are you trying to pigeon-hole me for a "Romanticist"?  Am I mistaking your statement here?

[karlhenning]

And actually, for that matter, I would find it easy to imagine people who enjoy the Romantic stylisms, finding Pettersson to their musical liking.

[paulb]

And actually, for that matter, I would find it easy to imagine people who enjoy the Romantic stylisms, finding Pettersson to their musical liking.

Karl
If I correctly recall, you have great fondess for Tchaikovsky, and this somehow sticks sorethumbly in my mind. I knew you did the review of Levine's All Carter program in Boston 2 yrs ago, very well written I might add.
Romanticists, as i undersatnd that camp's mindset,  taking to Pettersson? I don't quite see the connection. That requires quite a  jump in the imagination. Possible, but unlikely.

here's  a link to the Pettersson page over at amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/tag/classical%20music/forum/ref=cm_cd_et_up_redir?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx23WLXVKEFYP4Z&newContentID=Mx1SPOC7QC9R4IE#MxSNZ2YG65CXNW

sorry for the longggg link, I still do not know how to place it in a  condensed format. I'll delete the link ina   few days.

[karlhenning]

Well, certainly I do like Tchaikovsky, Paul; and I am sorry this makes your thumb sore :-)

But liking Tchaikovsky is no obstacle to liking other music of an entirely different profile.

[BachQ]

Listened to Pettersson 15 today for the first time ....... and I must say I'm extremely impressed.  Sym. No. 15 seldom receives prominent mention ......... but it's a masterpiece .........

[Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich]

Listening to Pettersson's sym 3. i love how Pettersson pays respects and hommage to his great mentor   Sibelius, throughout  the entire second movement, but especially at 5:50 and continues on this "variation on a  theme by Sibelius" through the 7th minute. I'm busy looking where Pettersson draws that passage from in Sibelius.
Anyone know the section from Sibelius?. Anyone know?

I'm not into all Sibelius Symphonies, but recently listened a lot to his orchestral tone poems. The violin in Pettersson 3/2 at 7:00 very strongly reminds me of the gorgeous godlike clarinet solo conclusion in the end of Sibelius' "En Saga". This can't only have been written by Sibelius hands, there must have been a god additionally. This clarinet is the center of the world for a short time! I'm getting really crazy whenever I listen to the final En Saga Minutes

Judge yourself --> [mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/21/1446950/En%20saga%20conclusion.mp3[/mp3]