Dmitri's Dacha

[snyprrr]

Symphony No.3 Op.20

Well, this 30 minute, single movement 'Symphony' has one of the worst reputations of any work by a Major Composer during the first half of the century. I thought I had done well to steer clear of it, but today I realized it was on a library copy, so, I braced myself.

People have characterized it as a psychedelic mish-mash of ideas a'la Symphony 4, or a Brian-meets-Pettersson-meets-CommieHappyPills, which, frankly, sounds like a hoot. So, what's not to like?

As the first few sections passed, I felt fine, like I was listening to a quality Overture,- there were no real melodies as such, just a lot of movement and fanfare, but I found it optimistic and youthful and... wait?... heeeey!!!- IT'S PROPAGANDA!!! AAAAHHHHH- Nooow I get it. What a schmuck! And here I thought it was just an Heroic Overture (well?- isn't it?).

I admit it was all somewhat forgettable and frothy,- but then I'm waiting on the chorus- and- and- and-... hey, I liked the way they started! Then it got all snare drum and sloganeering- it made me think of- oh yea- Communist Russia. So, hey, Shosty got the sound right, haha!!

Well, that wasn't so bad, now was it?

I had Inbal, which, at over 32 minutes, is maybe the longest out there, and turgid it is. Though having never heard it, I could tell that it could be tightened up, and most strive for under 28. This is also my first listen at an Inbal Shostakovich: very nice sound, but the orchestra seems quite scrappy (am I wrong?) and Inbal isn't really holding the reigns here, just letting movements max out on their own. The Presto of No.9, as a litmus test, was quite slow. But, I wouldn't want to judge Inbal by his 3/9 split (yuck- who wants thaaat?).

Well, guess I have to hear 2 next? And 12? (never heard 'em)

[North Star]

Symphony No.3 Op.20
...
Well, guess I have to hear 2 next? And 12? (never heard 'em)

Yes. They're not at all as terrible as one might think based on what people tend write about them.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, the texts which he set for the choral finales are Grade-C pæons to Communism.  But half of what I read at first about the Opp. 14 & 20 simply dismissed them for that reason.  Which is not a musical criterion, is it? 

[snyprrr]

Yes, the texts which he set for the choral finales are Grade-C pæons to Communism.  But half of what I read at first about the Opp. 14 & 20 simply dismissed them for that reason.  Which is not a musical criterion, is it? 

It's still somewhat disappointing to know that ol' Shosty was a full blown Libtard. It serves him right to have to experience all that horror later!! Siberia might have done him wonders!! Symphony No.17 "The Gulag"

So, I guess Russia in the '20s is like we are now, eh? We're just basking in the glow of our recent Revolution; our Dear Leader hasn't shown his fangs... yet.... what?... wait...

huh?

Oh yes, if you disagree with Sacred Leader you WILL be called out. Bet there isn't ONE "Artist" in the country who has the serious BALLS to criticize even a 'smigde' of Dear Leader's Cloward&Piven tactics. Love live Soviet Amerkia!! Hail to Dear Leader!!

Boy! What a deal!!

[Karl Henning]

It's still somewhat disappointing to know that ol' Shosty was a full blown Libtard. It serves him right to have to experience all that horror later!!

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[Brahmsian]

Going through this marvelous set, again:

Disc 1

String Quartet No. 1 in C major, Op. 49
String Quartet No. 2 in A major, Op. 68

[asin]B0000042HV[/asin]

[snyprrr]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Sure, he seems like he's on 'our' side... so thoughtful and all... but- hey- the Germans fell for their National Socialist leader- all of us heart-on-the-sleeve types I guess we fall for all the nice speeches about equality and all, but- pardon- we are just so gullible to believe that the Devil would never use such tactics against us. So, what?, was Shsoty's crime that he was a 'Believer'- just like so many of us? We'll Believe just about anything you tell us if it sounds good at the time.

I would have loved to have known Shosty as a RUSSIAN Composer rather than as a SZOVIET Composer- who knows what russian music would have been like without Statism?

I mean, I do understand that it appears that Shosty did what he could - in musical mottos- to give us some Morse Code about what the real deal was- but sometimes it just doesn't seem like enough- but, what was he supposed to do? Sacrifice his own life and family in a gulag- for what???

Most men lead lives of quiet desperation?


Yea, ok, I mean- I'll give Shosty the benefit of the doubt- at least we could talk music if nothing else?!! I guess i just wonder how he would have developed in a freer life situation...

Still, I find myself slightly suspicious of the Lifelong Public Employee. All I'm saying- what if had grown up in Montana???

MONTANA KARL!!

APPLE PIE!!

CORN AND WHEAT!!

SKY AND EARTH!!

(uhhh... would it still sound... 'Russia'n???)

[calyptorhynchus]

I have to disagree, I think that Shostakovich was the world's worse Communist composer. Only Symphonies 2 & 3 and 11 & 12, and various official works are propaganda, and all the rest are magnificently grumpy and uncooperative and not a good advertisement for the joys of living in the Soviet Union.

He would never have been employed or earned any commissions if he had lived in the West, not with an attitude like that.

[kishnevi]

If he lived in the West would he have had an attitude like that?

[Karl Henning]

Only Symphonies 2 & 3 and 11 & 12, and various official works are propaganda, and all the rest are magnificently grumpy and uncooperative and not a good advertisement for the joys of living in the Soviet Union.

But I am sure that if the Opus 47 Symphony had been perceived as "uncooperative," it would have failed as a "token of rehabilitation," and his career might have been significantly foreshortened.

[calyptorhynchus]

If he lived in the West would he have had an attitude like that?

Yes, I think he would, I think he was a magnificently grumpy and depressed person (and produced some magnificent music) and would have been as unhappy under capitalism as under communism. Under Communism he had no freedom, under capitalism he would have had no money.

As to Karl's observation, I find the Fifth Symphony as disaffected as the Fourth, it's just that he pulled the old trick of putting new wine in old bottles, ie its traditional form, as opposed to very untraditional form of the fourth. I really don't know why he was tolerated by Stalin and didn't end up dead like so many of the writers and intellectuals of the time, though composers seemed have been on a longer leash than others. Maybe he was adroit at pulling off tricks like the 5th and 7th Symphonies and withholding other works at just the right time to put the musical bureaucrats off the scent, maybe Stalin just didn't understand musical satire in the way he understood literary opposition (or maybe he didn't care), or maybe Shostakovich was allowed to play the role of iurodivyi (holy fool, licensed to speak the truth) for some reason.

[Karl Henning]

As to Karl's observation, I find the Fifth Symphony as disaffected as the Fourth, it's just that he pulled the old trick of putting new wine in old bottles, ie its traditional form, as opposed to very untraditional form of the fourth. I really don't know why he was tolerated by Stalin and didn't end up dead like so many of the writers and intellectuals of the time, though composers seemed have been on a longer leash than others. Maybe he was adroit at pulling off tricks like the 5th and 7th Symphonies and withholding other works at just the right time to put the musical bureaucrats off the scent, maybe Stalin just didn't understand musical satire in the way he understood literary opposition (or maybe he didn't care), or maybe Shostakovich was allowed to play the role of iurodivyi (holy fool, licensed to speak the truth) for some reason.

I guess my underlying point is that we err if we are keen to fix a specific meaning to the music.  He was a master of musical ambiguity.

[snyprrr]

Symphonies 2-3

I just listened to No.2 for the very first time ever (Rostropovich), and, mm, I liked it! I surely could have done without the chorus- it's funny, but there's no getting around the 'style' of singing- it's definitely 'Patriotic' music of some sort. I would have pegged it for Milhaud or Honegger!

I certainly has its Avant-Garde credentials firmly in grasp from the outset, and i felt like I had taken some absinthe what with the coluors swirling around like a cyclone from one thing to the next. In all, quite a fun little ride- I'd like to hear the most outrageous performances- Rostropovich, however, delivered an incredible ensemble and was ferocious throughout, and I don't know how it could be bettered.


No.3 I had heard a puffed up performance by Inbal, but one could hear the tension in the Rostropovich... it does seem like these two want to be on the same recital- there are at least Haitink, Rostropovich, and Jarvi... anyhow, interesting music that I find more (sinisterly) refreshing than most. My only concern is is that I'm enjoying the music in a completely perverse way,... oh naughty!


No.12... 40 minutes? Waaah! So far I've tried twice and gotten to the 6 minute mark!

[EigenUser]

Symphonies 2-3

I just listened to No.2 for the very first time ever (Rostropovich), and, mm, I liked it! I surely could have done without the chorus- it's funny, but there's no getting around the 'style' of singing- it's definitely 'Patriotic' music of some sort. I would have pegged it for Milhaud or Honegger!

I certainly has its Avant-Garde credentials firmly in grasp from the outset, and i felt like I had taken some absinthe what with the coluors swirling around like a cyclone from one thing to the next. In all, quite a fun little ride- I'd like to hear the most outrageous performances- Rostropovich, however, delivered an incredible ensemble and was ferocious throughout, and I don't know how it could be bettered.


No.3 I had heard a puffed up performance by Inbal, but one could hear the tension in the Rostropovich... it does seem like these two want to be on the same recital- there are at least Haitink, Rostropovich, and Jarvi... anyhow, interesting music that I find more (sinisterly) refreshing than most. My only concern is is that I'm enjoying the music in a completely perverse way,... oh naughty!


No.12... 40 minutes? Waaah! So far I've tried twice and gotten to the 6 minute mark!

I actually do like No. 2. I don't understand why it seems to be so disliked. Sure, it is different, but it is very reflective of its time. Sometimes I wonder if he had called them "cantatas" or something else like that they would get slightly more attention. There are too many symphonies of his that are popular and it is unfair for them to be compared to these.

[Karl Henning]

I actually do like No. 2. I don't understand why it seems to be so disliked. Sure, it is different, but it is very reflective of its time. Sometimes I wonder if he had called them "cantatas" or something else like that they would get slightly more attention. There are too many symphonies of his that are popular and it is unfair for them to be compared to these.

My enjoyment of both n^os. 2 & 3 is unalloyed (with the understanding that, sure, the texts are drek).  I think them good, and completely assured, composition, full stop.  And it is a superfluous bonus that here, we have two major elements in the subset Music which Shostakovich wrote absolutely as he pleased, before the whip came down.

[Brahmsian]

My enjoyment of both n^os. 2 & 3 is unalloyed (with the understanding that, sure, the texts are drek).  I think them good, and completely assured, composition, full stop.  And it is a superfluous bonus that here, we have two major elements in the subset Music which Shostakovich wrote absolutely as he pleased, before the whip came down.

+1 Good morning, Karl!

[Karl Henning]

Bonjour, Ray!

[snyprrr]

My enjoyment of both n^os. 2 & 3 is unalloyed (with the understanding that, sure, the texts are drek).  I think them good, and completely assured, composition, full stop.  And it is a superfluous bonus that here, we have two major elements in the subset Music which Shostakovich wrote absolutely as he pleased, before the whip came down.

Yes, he seemed to have quite a Surrealist bent? Lots of 'free for alls' here, chaotic 'process' music (machine music?) and just plain old experimentation... I'm not saying he was a Varese, but one wonders what kind of Avant he would have written in a free environment- but, then again, just about everyone's imagination dried up the closer to '39 we get (the '40s are full of 'normal' music).

("imagination" for experimentation)***



I made one final push... er... purchase... including both of Lenny's 1sts,... which of course includes the famous 7th... and - you will HAVE to be proud of my pluckiness- I got the A.Davis 10th (EMI), a dark horse indeed which promises to have some decent sonics (Davis has been fairly a good DSCH conductor I think).

[snyprrr]

Chamber Symphony No.1 for Strings Op.110a

Well, tell me what you really think. Surely there must be a lot of flabby performances out there, hiding a lethal one perhaps? It seems as though if you were to get the PC1, you are bound to be getting the CS1, and it seems to pop up everywhere. I'm curious about Jansons with Vienna, eh?

I might make a concerted effort here, but I'm not looking forward to it. Right now all I have is the Lazarev (w/14) which I haven't listened to yet (and the ensemble doesn't promise much).

[kishnevi]

I have yet to hear a recording of the chamber symphonies I like.  The change from four individual voices to a chorus, so to speak, degrades the musical qualities for me.   So I would suggest sticking to the Borodin Quartet.