Favorite Bruckner Interpreters

[Cato]

  Had this been a Wagner Interpreter Thread I would have been able to participate more.  I only have one set, which I enjoy tremendously so I only cast one vote: Jochum on DG!  Yup this set:

  [asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

  I thought this was definitive, I thought that I had reached Bruckner Nirvana, I thought that I did not need another set! Well??

  marvin

Amen, thou hast indeed entered BRUCKNER  0:) 0:) 0:) NIRVANA!  0:) 0:) 0:)

See ye not Hans Rott at the right hand of Bruckner, as he lashes and scalds the Schalk Brothers?!   

This DGG Jochum is indeed the only one necessary...unless you really want to hear the Originalfassungen or the completion of the Ninth Symphony's Finale, or to see if...

Bruckner Nirvana is found only in Celi's recordings 

Sarge

...that claim might be true!  "Celi" = Celibidache, who, I discovered by chance during a sojourn in Germany, had a female following of aggressive 60+ year old women ready to beat with their umbrellas any fool who dared to dispute that Celibidache was the GREATEST CONDUCTOR EVER! 

(An acquired taste, to be sure!  Celibidache, not 60-year old women!      Although...)

The DGG set has been fine with me for over 40 years now!   

[Sergeant Rock]

  Pardon the questions Sarge but......... WHO?? and WHY??

  marvin

Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war after Furtwängler was booted out and ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil. He was a disciple of Zen Buddhism and quite familiar with the concept of nirvana 

Sarge

[MishaK]

Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war temporarily after (1) Furtwängler was booted outtemporarily barred from conducting pending denazification, and (2) the occupiers' first choice, Leo Borchard, was shot dead by an American sentry and Celi ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil.

Minor edits. 

[marvinbrown]

Amen, thou hast indeed entered BRUCKNER  0:) 0:) 0:) NIRVANA!  0:) 0:) 0:)

See ye not Hans Rott at the right hand of Bruckner, as he lashes and scalds the Schalk Brothers?!   

This DGG Jochum is indeed the only one necessary...unless you really want to hear the Originalfassungen or the completion of the Ninth Symphony's Finale, or to see if...

...that claim might be true!  "Celi" = Celibidache, who, I discovered by chance during a sojourn in Germany, had a female following of aggressive 60+ year old women ready to beat with their umbrellas any fool who dared to dispute that Celibidache was the GREATEST CONDUCTOR EVER! 

(An acquired taste, to be sure!  Celibidache, not 60-year old women!      Although...)

The DGG set has been fine with me for over 40 years now!   

  Thank you for this post Cato. Jochum's Bruckner has always been praised on many reviews. The vote in this poll reflects this.

 

Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war after Furtwängler was booted out and ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil. He was a disciple of Zen Buddhism and quite familiar with the concept of nirvana 

Sarge

I have never heard of this conductor. Will need to investigate this.

marvin

[Sergeant Rock]

I have never heard of this conductor. Will need to investigate this.

While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Sarge

[MishaK]

While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Well.... critics of Celi might instead argue that his refusal to record was more a result and reaction to not being chosen as Furtwängler's official successor at the BPO after Furtwängler's death in 1954, that prize going to Karajan instead. As Karajan produced recordings the way normal people produce diary pages, Celi's religious refusal to record may have been an attempt at presenting himself as "holier than K". ;-) In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio). AFAIK, the official recordings blessed by his son post-mortem stem mostly from original broadcast tapes. His tempo choices are interesting. The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resultingly an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

[marvinbrown]

While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Sarge

Well.... critics of Celi might instead argue that his refusal to record was more a result and reaction to not being chosen as Furtwängler's official successor at the BPO after Furtwängler's death in 1954, that prize going to Karajan instead. As Karajan produced recordings the way normal people produce diary pages, Celi's religious refusal to record may have been an attempt at presenting himself as "holier than K". ;-) In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio). AFAIK, the official recordings blessed by his son post-mortem stem mostly from original broadcast tapes. His tempo choices are interesting. The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resulting an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

   I spent last night reading up on this "Celibidache" fellow and what a quirky, off centre individual he was!  It seems that he tried to transfer some of his "Buddhist" influences when conducting Bruckner, a spiritual "Christian" composer.  Talk about achieving Nirvana across the faiths!  Anyway that's not important, what is important though is that I already find Bruckner's music slow enough, any further attempt to slow things down might "DEADEN" the music.  But the two of you are arguing that this is not the case. Perhaps it is well worth exploring his recordings of Bruckner.

  "It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resulting an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else"

  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

  If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

  marvin

[MishaK]

  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

Yep. The SWR Bruckner on DG is forgettable.

If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

I have no idea. I have only the individual discs that were issued previously, not the new set.

[Sergeant Rock]

  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

  If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

  marvin

The original release was defective, yes. The boxes were withdrawn and several months later replaced with the correct discs. Anything offered by Amazon now should be okay.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio).

Yes, I've always thought there was a bit of hypocrisy there (I mean, he became the conductor of a radio orchestra in Stuttgart!) but I suppose he'd rationalize that as being live performances in front of an audience rather than the "sterile" conditions of the studio.

The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resultingly an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

Yes, absolutely correct, which is why I mentioned his slowness is a stereotype (not necessarily reality) many think of when thinking Celi. In fact, most performances aren't overly slow, even late performances of Bruckner. But when he is slow...god...nothing else quite like it 

Sarge

[DavidW]

Jochum and Karajan for me.

[Karl Henning]

I've not yet listened to all of the HvK box . . . .

[DavidW]

For me the 8th is the highlight of the Karajan box.