Hugo Alfven's Stugan

[Mirror Image]

Sibelius was Finnish.

Really? I thought he was Cambodian. ROFL....

[DavidRoss]

Really? I thought he was Cambodian. ROFL....

No, you thought he was Scandinavian.

[North Star]

No, you thought he was Scandinavian.

Well Fennoscandia and Scandinavia are used pretty much interchangeably even in Fennoscandia.

[mc ukrneal]

Wikipedia has the following:

Scandinavia[a] is a historical cultural-linguistic region in Northern Europe characterized by a common ethno-cultural Germanic heritage and related languages that includes the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. Modern Norway and Sweden proper[/b] are situated on the Scandinavian Peninsula, whereas modern Denmark is situated on the Danish islands and Jutland. The term Scandinavia is usually used as a cultural term, but in English usage, it is occasionally confused with the purely geographical term Scandinavian Peninsula, which took its name from the cultural-linguistic concept. The name Scandinavia historically referred vaguely to Scania. The terms Scandinavia and Scandinavian entered usage in the 18th century as terms for the three Scandinavian countries, their peoples and associated language and culture, being introduced by the early linguistic and cultural Scandinavist movement. Sometimes the term Scandinavia is also taken to include Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Finland, on account of their historical association with the Scandinavian countries. Such usage, however, may be considered inaccurate in the area itself, where the term Nordic countries instead refers to this broader group.

[The new erato]

It seems this discussion is Finnished.

[mc ukrneal]

It seems this discussion is Finnished.

Oh! That's a really bad (meaning good) one!!!!!! 

[DavidRoss]

It seems this discussion is Finnished.

Ouch! 

I remember being set straight about it in no uncertain terms by a Finnish exchange student back in the '60s. She was rightly proud of her distinct culture and language, no more Scandinavian than the Basques are Spanish, despite several centuries of Swedish rule. Given Sibelius's participation in the Finnish nationalist movement of a century ago and his commitment to Finnish language and literature, I suspect he'd have felt the same. But per North Star it seems not all Finns feel so strongly a few generations later.

Interesting that the Wiki article doesn't include Iceland, which isn't Scandinavian only in the most limited geographic sense defined by continuous land mass.

Now listening to Alfvén, Legend of the Skerries, the recording Vesteralen enjoyed so much, courtesy of Mog.

[North Star]

It seems this discussion is Finnished.

Does this mean that you want me out of here?

Yeah, Nordic countries is used for Iceland, Norway, Sweden & Finland

I remember being set straight about it in no uncertain terms by a Finnish exchange student back in the '60s. She was rightly proud of her distinct culture and language, no more Scandinavian than the Basques are Spanish, despite several centuries of Swedish rule. Given Sibelius's participation in the Finnish nationalist movement of a century ago and his commitment to Finnish language and literature, I suspect he'd have felt the same. But per North Star it seems not all Finns feel so strongly a few generations later.

Well, that was during Cold War and much closer to Winter War and Continuation War  - nationalism was obviously much stronger then. Interesting that you mention Sibelius's nationalism - he was very much a nationalist, but stopped active participation in the movement when the nationalists were fighting Swedish language - Sibelius's (and of just about all of the non-working class) mother tongue.
There had been a century of Russian rule - but that only solidified the control of the Swedish-speaking elite - Russians wanted a quick peace after conquering and didn't want rebellions.
And calling Basques Spanish is quite a different matter - Scandinavia refers to the geographic area.

Is there really Norway to Finnish this OT discussion ?

[DavidRoss]

Is there really Norway to Finnish this OT discussion ?

Ouch, again!

Yes, "Scandinavia" refers to the geographic area. "Scandinavian" refers to the people or their culture. And my recollection of Sibelius's bio is that he participated in the Finnish language movement, studied Finnish (which was not his native tongue as he was raised in the upper middle-class speaking Swedish), and set some of his greatest works to Finnish texts. But I've been wrong before, Dane it!

[North Star]

Ouch, again!

Yes, "Scandinavia" refers to the geographic area. "Scandinavian" refers to the people or their culture. And my recollection of Sibelius's bio is that he participated in the Finnish language movement, studied Finnish (which was not his native tongue as he was raised in the upper middle-class speaking Swedish), and set some of his greatest works to Finnish texts. But I've been wrong before, Dane it!

There's nothing wrong in those facts, but he wasn't against Swedish language, like the group that he associated with was then. Many of his choral pieces were commissions by the group.

[Mirror Image]

No, you thought he was Scandinavian.

I thought you had me on ignore or something and now you're talking to me? I don't understand you at all.

[North Star]

Perhaps discussing Alfven's music would Sweden up this thread...

[DavidRoss]

So far what I've heard has been beautiful and pleasant -- not fashionable, I know, but I've nothing against these qualities. I'm not sure how well it will wear for me, but plan to keep listening.

[Conor71]

I have collected Alfven's Symphonies on Naxos and finally got around to listening to them this weekend - I must admit I was rather disappointed  . Does anyone know if there is much difference between the Willen and the Jarvi performances on Bis? I felt I would have liked the music a lot more if the interpretations had a harder edge to them.
Thanks for any replies

[Mirror Image]

I have collected Alfven's Symphonies on Naxos and finally got around to listening to them this weekend - I must admit I was rather disappointed  . Does anyone know if there is much difference between the Willen and the Jarvi performances on Bis? I felt I would have liked the music a lot more if the interpretations had a harder edge to them.
Thanks for any replies

I think maybe a fairer question is did you really enjoy the music? Do you really think the interpretations played a role in your disappointment or was it perhaps the music itself? I think these are fair questions to think about. For me, there's no question that it's the music that is disappointing. I own Jarvi's set and listened to it off/on for an entire year and never bothered to revisit it. The main reason being is that there's nothing in Alfven's music that gives me the slightest bit of satisfaction. I found all of the symphonies to be nothing more than washes of faint Romanticism. There's just no character in Alfven's music. If want to hear a composer who embraced Romanticism in the 20th Century I'll listen to Shostakovich or RVW. These composers had great musical voices. I need only hear a few bars from each of these composers to know it is their music I'm hearing. Alfven lacks distinction and a personal voice. If we're talking about Swedish composers, then I would take, and cringe just saying this, Pettersson over Alfven any day of the week. At least with Pettersson I know I'm getting something that's truly personal. I may not like the dissonant sludge I'm hearing pour forth from the speakers, but I know it's one-of-a-kind dissonant sludge. All of this, IMHO, of course.

[Conor71]

Quote from: Mirror Image on Today at 01:19:21 PM

I think maybe a fairer question is did you

really enjoy the music? Do you really think the interpretations played a role in your disappointment or was it perhaps the music itself? I think these are fair questions to think about. For me, there's no question that it's the music that is disappointing. I own Jarvi's set and listened to it off/on for an entire year and never bothered to revisit it. The main reason being is that there's nothing in Alfven's music that gives me the slightest bit of satisfaction. I found all of the symphonies to be nothing more than washes of faint Romanticism. There's just no character in Alfven's music. If want to hear a composer who embraced Romanticism in the 20th Century I'll listen to Shostakovich or RVW. These composers had great musical voices. I need only hear a few bars from each of these composers to know it is their music I'm hearing. Alfven lacks distinction and a personal voice. If we're talking about Swedish composers, then I would take, and cringe just saying this, Pettersson over Alfven any day of the week. At least with Pettersson I know I'm getting something that's truly personal. I may not like the dissonant sludge I'm hearing pour forth from the speakers, but I know it's one-of-a-kind dissonant sludge. All of this, IMHO, of course.

Thanks for your response MI - yes it could just be the music. I did'nt really find any it that inspiring. I followed up my session of Alfven with a Disc of Atterberg (who it could be argues doesnt set the world on fire either) and I found there was a world of difference to me. I guess I am just used to liking most all Composers I've had the chance to listen to so I was a bit suprised that I didnt really warm to Alfven. Maybe I can just add him to the list of Composers which includes the likes of Stockhausen and Messiaen who I just dont really appreciate that much! 

[The new erato]

Let me add hat I also find Alfven relatively bland.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for your response MI - yes it could just be the music. I didn't really find any of it that inspiring. I followed up my session of Alfven with a Disc of Atterberg (who it could be argues doesnt set the world on fire either) and I found there was a world of difference to me. I guess I am just used to liking most all Composers I've had the chance to listen to so I was a bit suprised that I didnt really warm to Alfven. Maybe I can just add him to the list of Composers which includes the likes of Stockhausen and Messiaen who I just dont really appreciate that much! 

Atterberg is much better than Alfven. No argument there from me. I would also venture to say I like Stenhammar a lot more than Alfven. Stenhammar's Serenade is better than anything Alfven has composed. As for your distaste for Stockhausen and Messiaen, well I feel your pain. If I never heard either of these composers again in my life, I would be happy.

[Turner]

I visited the Alfven museum, Alfven-Gården near the town of Leksand, a couple of weeks ago, on my 27-day cycling trip in Sweden.
The place has a website too
http://alfvengarden.se/wp/

It´s in the picturesque region of Dalarna, traditionally seen as quintessentially representing Swedish folk culture, and also the preferred home of artists like the painters Carl Larsson and Anders Zorn, and the author Selma Lagerlöf often popping in there too.

Alfvengården is probably less known than the Peterson-Berger museum further north, near Östersund, and right now, it doesn´t even have a single TripAdvisor review (!).

Entrance includes a well-informed, service-minded guide (staff comprises several people on the spot) and the possibility of viewing a short film about the composer. Contrary to the situation in a good deal of Swedish museums (including Zorn´s and Larsson´s) one is allowed to take photos inside, but most of mine was taken with a camera using too much MB, so the photo below is just from my phone.

Not particularly good-looking, Alfvén must however have possessed an immediate charm, since he was known as a womanizer, tended to spend his earned money quickly, loved cars but was miserable at driving and even at changing gears on the way, etc. His possibility for staying in the house was only made possible through a public collection of money for this purpose.

The house has a lived-in atmosphere, with lots of musical memorabilia, and some very nice examples of his painterly talents, including water-colors from Italy and Sweden. He even re-created a South-Italy en miniature in one of the smaller, sunlit rooms in the house, painting the walls white, supplementing with green plants, Italian ceramics, and pictures, etc.

There were several pianos, and a lot of scores, obviously due to Alfven´s conducting career, but it´s not a lavish or rich home otherwise, compared to Zorn´s luxurious, hi-end one at Mora, or Larsson´s densely decorated, collector-loaded one in Sundborn.

When I was there, the Swedish pianist Melker Stendahl was there, having given a concert there the day before (they offer a lot of concerts), on one of Alfven´s pianos.  He was recording some music there, and we talked about a possible CD release, since Alfven´s piano music is generally neglected
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Alfv%C3%A9n#Pianomusik

[Brian]

Given the appearance of the Naxos Alfvén box, and given my ongoing adventure through the much darker, gloomier world of Kalevi Aho, I decided to also do a listening tour of his A-mate.



The Festival Overture is an admirable example of its kind. Just 5 minutes, very catchy and happy, reminiscent of Tchaikovsky's polonaise from 'Onegin' or the Nielsen Maskarade. Good stuff. Willen draws a suite of four bits from the Bergakungen ballet, and the performance is adequate, nothing more. (The shepherd girl's dance is one of Alfvén's two big "hits," and this rendition is at a rather safe tempo.)

The Uppsala Rhapsody, Swedish Rhapsody No. 2, is not as catchy and instantly likeable as Rhapsody No. 1, nor as enormous and dramatic as No. 3. It's just genial background music, with an inappropriately serious fugue shoved into the middle. I like to keep this kind of harmless, gentle music on in the background while I focus on work, and it is adequate for that purpose: not too good to distract me from my job, not too bad to be annoying. Perfectly fine.

Symphony No. 1 is in stark contrast to the rest of the music here. In F minor, it has pretentions of being a Very Serious Piece, clearly by a composer who felt intimidated by the symphonic form and thought he needed to use it to do something Really Big. It starts with a drum roll, a glum cello solo, and then a slow introduction. Bass drum underpins the acceleration into the first movement. And the rest...is not memorable. The finale starts with the same chord as Beethoven's Egmont overture. But otherwise, this music is just...okay. There is a little bit of a Nordic folk influence to a couple of melodies, but not nearly enough to rescue this from the ranks of the dozens of other totally generic Germanic romantic symphonies. The orchestra is not always perfectly rehearsed.

It is perhaps an advantage of the Naxos series' programming that the good stuff and less good stuff are distributed evenly across each disc. Or maybe that's because Alfvén's symphonies are all 38-50 minutes long, which means they can't be coupled with each other and must be paired with the shorter works he did better.

I do think the Festival Overture deserves a spot on some overture albums, but there is much better music coming on later volumes of this series.