Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[PaulSC]

A quick question. On Lubimov's CD I and II are presented on a single track. Are they presented as seperate movements by Beethoven? Does someone have a copy of  the urtext?

Evidently it's a complicated matter:

While it is true that a carefully proofed first edition must be seen as authoritative in many instances, the autographs often reveal performance details about things Beethoven does not want the pianist to do. For instance, he originally wrote that the pianist should immediately attack the second movement upon the peaceful completion of the first. That 'attaca' mark is vigorously crossed out in the autograph; nothing appears in the first edition to tell the player how to connect the two movements temporally .

From a lecture given by Beethoven scholar William Meredith at the Library of Congress. The complete text is here:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/perform/concert/pdf/beethoven-lecture-2011.pdf

[George]

Other Waldsteins I also rate very highly are the Gilels from 1966 in Aix-en-Provence, Dubrovka Tomsic and the best of all IMO - Rudolf Serkin - which has everything

Serkin (mono), along with Hofmann (live Casimir) are the best Waldstein's, IMO.

[Mandryka]

speaking of unsatisfactory op.109's i heard kempff mono yesterday and was so disappointed i stopped it in the 1st mvmt exposition...skipped ahead to the last mvmt and also played about 2 minutes before i couldn't take more.  there was no tension or forward drive at all.  it sounded to me like the man had just woken up or something

just out of curiosity i checked out the stereo recording and ended up playing it all the way through [god bless spotify!] and was very impressed, even awed in the last movement


ive been meaning to try richter's beethoven.  is it recommendable?  his live op.57 kinda scared me off.

Richter is very good in the late recordings he made of Op 109 in fact -- there's one from the 1990s on Philips. It's much less scary  than his Op 57.

It's worth persevering with Kempff's mono op 109 because he is so good at integrating the variations. It's exactly the same in Op 111 -- which is not surprising because the two sonatas are so similar. You need to be listening to a decent transfer -- I like the one which looks like this the most:



As far as the worst Op 109s go, I have a hard time listening to Lubimov's.

If you're exploring op 109s be sure to try Ashkenazy's.

[Mandryka]

Evidently it's a complicated matter:From a lecture given by Beethoven scholar William Meredith at the Library of Congress. The complete text is here:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/perform/concert/pdf/beethoven-lecture-2011.pdf

That looks an interesting lecture but unfortunately the link isn't to a transcript.

Thanks though, it has made me think about the improvisatory side of this music.

[Mandryka]

Serkin (mono), along with Hofmann (live Casimir) are the best Waldstein's, IMO.

You were born too late!


By the way this is one of the Beethoven sonatas which I think really gains something special from being played on fortepiano. The  percussive timbres in the first movement.

[Brian]

As far as the worst Op 109s go, I have a hard time listening to Lubimov's.

I'd say HJ Lim but that's a gimme. It actually made me laugh out loud.

By the way this is one of the Beethoven sonatas which I think really gains something special from being played on fortepiano. The  percussive timbres in the first movement.

I agree. Brautigam is very good if you are ok with a zippy, classicized account, but I really hope Penelope Crawford gets around to the Waldstein too.

[George]

Richter is very good in the late recordings he made of Op 109 in fact -- there's one from the 1990s on Philips. It's much less scary  than his Op 57.

It's worth persevering with Kempff's mono op 109 because he is so good at integrating the variations. It's exactly the same in Op 111 -- which is not surprising because the two sonatas are so similar. You need to be listening to a decent transfer -- I like the one which looks like this the most:

Is that the mono stuf prior to the DG? If so, got a link?

[PaulSC]

That looks an interesting lecture but unfortunately the link isn't to a transcript.

Thanks though, it has made me think about the improvisatory side of this music.

I shouldn't have assumed the full text (which I've not read) was online. The manuscript of 109 has been published in facsimile, but I've not seen it. However, Heinrich Schenker's edition, which he prepared after careful study of the autographs, shows no "attaca" marking but also no double bar line — indeed, no bar line at all — at the end of the first movement. Most editions I've seen give me ending of this movement with a heavy double bar, which is of course the normal state of affairs. Now I'm curious to read what Meredith has two say about all of this...

[Mandryka]

I'm listening to the Kempff through spotify. It's just the DG mono, but the piano sounds better than DG's transfer to me.

I believe that Schnabel left out the double bar line at the end of op109/i, adding a note to say Beethoven left it out originally. Which makes me think I need to listen to his two records of it again to see how he handles the transition.

The obvious problem is that i is quite peaceful and ii isn't, so integrating them could sound silly. I guess you'd have to play i less serenely to make it work. And that would bring  op109 closer to op111.

[Carnivorous Sheep]

http://www.pierre-arnaud-dablemont.com/projects-pianist/beethoven-sonatas-evolutions-volume1-2544

"This project called Beethoven – Evolutions consists in two albums each one featuring a set of three sonatas aiming to reveal Beethoven's musical language experiments and evolution."

I'm not crazy to be reminded of the language in HJ Lim's cycle, right?

[kishnevi]

http://www.pierre-arnaud-dablemont.com/projects-pianist/beethoven-sonatas-evolutions-volume1-2544

"This project called Beethoven – Evolutions consists in two albums each one featuring a set of three sonatas aiming to reveal Beethoven's musical language experiments and evolution."

I'm not crazy to be reminded of the language in HJ Lim's cycle, right?

Well, not familiar with the pianist, so I can hope his technique and his thoughts on the sonatas are superior to Ms. Lims.   And if they aren't, at least he will only be inflicting six sonatas on us.

[Opus106]

Forgive me for the long list. I do not favor Valentina Lisitsa much although she's not a bad interpreter. Still, when it comes to Beethoven there are so many others ahead of her. I posted the videos because of the piano used. It's a Bosendorfer and you can hear (even on youtube) how heavy and dense it is, those unique low octaves (a Bosendorfer trademark), its sheer power, nobility and sobriety. These days you seldom hear anything else other than Steinway. I'd love to hear more Bosendorfers, more Bechsteins, more Kawais and even Faziolis... Each model and each brand has its own distinctive sound that can favor some pieces and composers...

I noticed that Mr. Goodyear uses a Baldwin in this video

http://www.youtube.com/v/sgZ8z7Ztn10

[Lilas Pastia]

Eric Heidsieck's take on sonatas 27-29 is fascinating. I will have to live with them for a while before 'placing' them. One of my favourite movements is 28:2, the quirky  vivace alla marcia. I've never heard it sound SO quirky!  The pianist underlines and maybe exaggerates its rythmic structure and the aural result is like seeing a dancing skeleton. A jerky, gawky march.

As I write I hear in my mind the sublime Adagio of the Hammerklavier. I'll definitely return to this disc soon.

[DavidRoss]

Eric Heidsieck's take on sonatas 27-29 is fascinating. I will have to live with them for a while before 'placing' them. One of my favourite movements is 28:2, the quirky  vivace alla marcia. I've never heard it sound SO quirky!  The pianist underlines and maybe exaggerates its rythmic structure and the aural result is like seeing a dancing skeleton. A jerky, gawky march.

As I write I hear in my mind the sublime Adagio of the Hammerklavier. I'll definitely return to this disc soon.

Hmmmm...I'll pop that into the listening stack. Thanks!

[Todd]

Looks like the two below are the same, so now one can choose DVD or CD.  (I have the DVD set.)

 


That means no unprecedented fourth cycle from Danny boy.

[jlaurson]

Looks like the two below are the same, so now one can choose DVD or CD.  (I have the DVD set.)

 


That means no unprecedented fourth cycle from Danny boy.

They are, huh?

And the DVD cycle has just been re-released, too, on DVD and/or blu-Ray.

[Oldnslow]

So Todd, how is this Barenboim set?  I'm working through Goodyear's complete set, which is very fine--pretty much on a par with Guy and Bavouzet for a modern take on the sonatas.

[kishnevi]

So Todd, how is this Barenboim set?  I'm working through Goodyear's complete set, which is very fine--pretty much on a par with Guy and Bavouzet for a modern take on the sonatas.

I too am curious to know if it's worth getting.  In fact, are any of Danny's cycles worth investing in?

Not that I'm in a hurry.  I've got Hiesdeck waiting in the 50 CD EMI box, and JCP sent me word today that my order including Buchbinder's Teldec cycle (including the non sonata works) is now shipped.

[Todd]

So Todd, how is this Barenboim set?

It's his best cycle overall.  Indeed, I prefer it to Goodyear, but not Guy or Bavouzet, assuming they both keep up their current level of excellence.

[Brian]

Maria Grinberg's cycle is being reissued on Melodiya, if anyone's interested in that.