Re: La Marioneta Revised

[MarkMcD]

Hi all,

I'm new to this part of the forum so I'm looking forward to hearing lots of great music and adding my 2 penneth worth also.

First, a little intro. 

I've been an amateur composer for about 30 years now (when I have the time).  Mostly classical piano and some orchestral works, but always just for my own entertainment.  Until now!

After spending such a long time plonking away on my piano, I thought I really would like to know if anyone else thinks what I do actually has any merit.  I have to say that the majority of my music wouldn't be considered modern in style.  The main reasons I love classical music was born from the classics of old, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Schubert etc., etc., and whilst I am all for the advancement of music and musical styles, I'm afraid a lot of the more atonal works and "modern" classical music, leaves me cold, not all of it, as long as I can discern a melody and some nice harmonies, rhythmic or melodic structure, then I'm quite happy, but my stuff usually doesn't fall into that category

With that in mind, I would like to share some of my stuff with the community here and see if you think I should carry on, or not give up my day job! lol.

Thanks in advance for your indulgence and whatever help and advice you can give me.

Here's a dropbox link to "La Marioneta"
A short piano piece that perhaps I might say, is about as far outside the traditional as I get, I hope you like it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjxxv2s3j2w1ojk/La%20Marioneta%20%28final%20version%29.mp3?dl=0

Also, if any of you happen to think my work merits it, then I would like to post a few more pieces here, so please tell me what you think, even if you don't like it or think it has no merit, at least I will know, right?

Mark

[Andante]

Hello Mark and welcome, You echo my view on to days music and like you the majority of it leaves me cold luckily however some decent music is still being produced and yours fits into that slot I thoroughly enjoyed your work. 

[Mahlerian]

My impression is that the piece needs more variety.  It seems restrained in spite of the driving rhythmic style used, and more contrast between various parts of the piece would add to the effect.

[MarkMcD]

Thank you Andante and Mahlerian,

I'm so glad you enjoyed it Andante, but I am inclined to agree also a little with you Mahlerian, in that the piece even to me, sounds a little too inveriable in parts.  The trouble with this piece is that the bones of the piece came out in 1 sitting (with much polishing to follow), but the basic structure was set from the beginning and I found it really hard to make any drastic changes later.  I wanted to have more key variation, but when I tried to introduce the key changes, the rest of the structure tended to collapse and so in the end I left it more or less as it was.  I am happy with the rhythms and the changes of pace during the couple of more subdued passages, but one thing I do always wonder is if a piece is ever truly finished.  Yes of course the Grand Masters presentations are more than likely truly finished, but at least for me, I never rule out further revisions to my work if and when the inspiration strikes me, I will revisit a piece and try out new variations, and this piece is no exception.  On the whole, I am pleased with it's present state, but when I find a way to revise it with the changes I really want, I will revise it.

Thanks again to you both for you comments, I really appreciate it.

Mark

[Andante]

I think it is a great idea and so deserves more work perhaps a development into the lower register and a tempo change but what do I know I play music not compose it. lol

[MarkMcD]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, you're giving me ideas now Andante, lol.  I think it could stand a quick foray into the lower register and your right about the tempo change, it is quite rigid in it's tempo just now, but don't hold your breath for the revision, it could be a while    I do also think that the performer is very well placed to give critique, as the composer is often so attached to the work that it's hard to see what others see, giving a more detached view of a piece, so thanks for your input.

Mark

[MarkMcD]

Hello again,

I've been working on a revision for La Marioneta and finally I have it done.  I took the advice and wrote a development this time in a major mode with a slower pace.  I think had provided some contrast, what do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pd53v9ru9kvggk5/La%20Marioneta%20-%20Revision%202.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1j4bjtayfhppfi/La%20Marioneta%20revised.pdf?dl=0   (The Score)

[Andante]

Again I like it are you aiming to finish up with a sonata or is it just an idea to play around with ?

[MarkMcD]

Good morning Andante,

Thanks for listening.  To be honest, originally it was only meant to be a stand alone piece, but whilst I was playing with the new development, a couple of ideas came to me and I was wondering about writing a further piece to accompany the first, I suppose it would make more sense go for sonata since I don't know of a form that has only 2 movements.

Check back in about a year and there might something more to hear 

Regards
Mark

[Andante]

Or you could try "Variations on a theme of Mark" just as an exercise but a sonata would be more of a challenge and satisfying.   Don't forsake your original loves of the Masters, melody, rhythm and form.

[MarkMcD]

Thanks Andante, I think I would like to try for the sonata, as you say, it would be a challenge, but one that might give me a bit more insight into the form if I do it properly as I've never really written a sonata that really followed the accepted definition.  I think there might be enough material to work with, but don't hold your breath lol.

Thanks again for all your advice, I really do appreciate it.

Kind regards
Mark

[Cato]

Hello again,

I've been working on a revision for La Marioneta and finally I have it done.  I took the advice and wrote a development this time in a major mode with a slower pace.  I think had provided some contrast, what do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pd53v9ru9kvggk5/La%20Marioneta%20-%20Revision%202.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1j4bjtayfhppfi/La%20Marioneta%20revised.pdf?dl=0   (The Score)

Very nice! 

My impression is that the piece needs more variety.  It seems restrained in spite of the driving rhythmic style used, and more contrast between various parts of the piece would add to the effect.

The range of the piano is large, so exploring the higher/highest and lower/lowest registers in the piece would solve that variety issue.  There is a tendency to hang around the middle a little too much, otherwise, yes, a fun piece, and possibly has material for a full Sonata.  0:)

[MarkMcD]

Thanks Cato,

I just started work on a second movement, whilst also trying to wade through Schoenbergs fundamentals, it's heavy going, but I'm really trying to use proper techniques instead of the more free flow approach I'm used to, lets see what it brings 

Mark

[Andante]

Thanks Cato,

I just started work on a second movement, whilst also trying to wade through Schoenbergs fundamentals, it's heavy going, but I'm really trying to use proper techniques instead of the more free flow approach I'm used to, lets see what it brings 

Mark

Oh no not Schoenberg.........please

[Mahlerian]

Oh no not Schoenberg.........please

His Fundamentals of Music Composition is a really great text for beginners learning to compose in a traditional manner.  Don't go around badmouthing it just because of his reputation.  He shows how to start from simple motifs and go to writing ternary form, scherzo form, and finally sonata form.

It's not quite as detailed as Harmonielehre, nor as filled with digressions.

[MarkMcD]

LOL, it was suggested to me, and since I have very little frame of reference in these things, then I got hold of a copy.  I think everyone is going to have their personal favorites and gripes, but it's a start.

Andante, if there's something that you think I should be reading, then let me know, I'll give most things a shot.  I have to say that I find the language that Schoenberg uses is quite "jargonish", but there are very few text books that seem to explain things in a more user friendly manner.  I'm dyslexic, and so leaning by reading alone never seems to sink in for me, I much prefer to have someone explain, so that I can ask questions, that however takes money, so books it is then! 

Mahlerian, I'm happy you thought to look back at my thread, it would have been nice if you actually said whether you thought there had been any improvement to the piece, but well, at least you looked  Thanks

[Cato]

His Fundamentals of Music Composition is a really great text for beginners learning to compose in a traditional manner.  Don't go around badmouthing it just because of his reputation.  He shows how to start from simple motifs and go to writing ternary form, scherzo form, and finally sonata form.

Amen! 

I have to say that I find the language that Schoenberg uses is quite "jargonish", but there are very few text books that seem to explain things in a more user friendly manner.  I'm dyslexic, and so leaning by reading alone never seems to sink in for me, I much prefer to have someone explain, so that I can ask questions, that however takes money

By no means does it take money!  Just ask any of our resident experts and they will be happy to answer!   

[Mahlerian]

LOL, it was suggested to me, and since I have very little frame of reference in these things, then I got hold of a copy.  I think everyone is going to have their personal favorites and gripes, but it's a start.

Andante, if there's something that you think I should be reading, then let me know, I'll give most things a shot.  I have to say that I find the language that Schoenberg uses is quite "jargonish", but there are very few text books that seem to explain things in a more user friendly manner.  I'm dyslexic, and so leaning by reading alone never seems to sink in for me, I much prefer to have someone explain, so that I can ask questions, that however takes money, so books it is then! 

Mahlerian, I'm happy you thought to look back at my thread, it would have been nice if you actually said whether you thought there had been any improvement to the piece, but well, at least you looked  Thanks

I hadn't listened to the latest revision until just now.

It is certainly improved in a few ways.  Keeping the middle section a moto perpetuo doesn't do all that much to change the texture, but at least it's a constant eighth note rhythm rather than constant sixteenth notes throughout.  Echoing Cato, you certainly could do a good deal to expand the range of your piano, so that it isn't routinely returning to the middle register.

It may seem nitpicky to say this, but if you're interested in having anyone else play this, or even just as a good habit, you should be more careful about notation.  The last chord is clearly F minor, but you're replacing the A-flats with G-sharps, which is confusing to look at.  Bars like 172 are unnecessarily difficult to read.  There's no reason it couldn't or shouldn't look like the version in the attachment.

That said, your piece is certainly engaging.  Take what you've learned from it and apply it to your next.

[Andante]

I knew exactly what the response would be as soon as I mentioned Schoenberg with an "Oh no" (but thought it would be worse) so I will leave it at that lol.

@ Mark. I don't know what instrument you play but perhaps a friendly chat with whoever taught you would be a good place to start. 

[Mahlerian]

I knew exactly what the response would be as soon as I mentioned Schoenberg with an "Oh no" (but thought it would be worse) so I will leave it at that lol.

Well, you could apologize.  Why should Schoenberg still be treated as a pariah?  He wrote some great books on composition that any aspiring composer, no matter what style they want to write in, can learn from.

Thinking that he only taught students to write in his own style is more of the same ignorance that is often spread about him.

I apologize to Mark for derailing his thread.  It was impolite of me.