Schumann solo piano music

[kishnevi]

1) the first Schumann CD I ever got was Perahia playing the Davidsbundlertanze.  The second was Horowitz playing Kreisleriana.

In fact, I never heard the Symphonic Etudes--never even heard of them--until well late in the game, when I got one of that EMI sets of assorted pianists playing assorted Schumann.  So for me, it's a case of the Etudes being by far the less celebrated work.

2) regarding modern pianists playing Carnaval

That was his second Schumann CD; the first CD included the Etudes.

[Mandryka]

Well, okay, I got my Levy/etudes kick, Mandryka. It's on Youtube.

As charitable as I'd like to be I have to say this is the type of performance that makes me  .

Levy is exactly as I remembered him. I hear this as nothing more than an exercise in self-indulgence. Intentional swelling, distortions of line, exaggerated accents, numerous hesitations, the works. Schumann is completely left at the starting gate. Eccentric doesn't do justice to this interpretation. Mugging is more like it. 



http://www.youtube.com/v/wKuZ4jkW0sY

Do we know that an authentic performance of a Schumann piece wouldn't use all those expressive devices?

This comment from a review of Franz Vorraber's Schumann has always intrigued me

. . . I [too] fell in love in my early teens with Schumann's piano music. I persuaded my own teacher that I should tackle 'Kinderscenen'. My piano teacher at this time c.1965 was over 70. He had been a student at the Royal Academy around 1910 and he told me that his teacher at the Academy had been a pupil of Clara Schumann in Germany. My teacher played therefore with certain characteristics inherited from her and her school. He assumed that Clara played Robert's music as he would have done. These characteristics included, often allowing the two hands not to play together, playing with often excessive rubato at the whim of the performer, repeating certain passages even if unmarked, bringing out inner parts even if not marked, treating the dynamics and articulation such as accents and staccatos only as possible guidelines and to arpeggiate chords or not arpeggiate chords depending on the performers preferred hand formations. My teacher himself played in this way but said that this "is not the way you should play Schumann nowadays". I was encouraged not to copy him but to play the composer's markings as precisely as possible and chastised if I failed to do so. It initially came as quite a shock to me to discover that Vorraber plays Schumann like my old teacher, the tempi and expressive qualities in whose performances now seem so muddled to me that aurally I often lose my way. . . Yet having said all of that I am not necessarily being negative. I genuinely feel that I am hearing this music as Schumann and his wife probably played it - a really authentic performance. . .

Levy is a pianist for whom the score itself holds little meaning, ....

Don't confuse the score with the music.

[Sammy]

Well, okay, I got my Levy/etudes kick, Mandryka. It's on Youtube.

As charitable as I'd like to be I have to say this is the type of performance that makes me  .

Levy is exactly as I remembered him. I hear this as nothing more than an exercise in self-indulgence. Intentional swelling, distortions of line, exaggerated accents, numerous hesitations, the works. Schumann is completely left at the starting gate. Eccentric doesn't do justice to this interpretation. Mugging is more like it. 



http://www.youtube.com/v/wKuZ4jkW0sY

That certainly was a highly individualistic interpretation of the Sym. Etudes.  Can't say I liked it much.  However, such a strange reading probably needs a few listenings to get a good handle on its properties.  Will I be making those additional hearings?  I doubt it - life's too short.  I'll just move forward with the likes of Gieseking, Moiseiwitch, etc. for the historical perspective.

[Mandryka]

I too listened to Levy's Etudes last night again, I don't think I'd heard them for about a year or more. I like what he does, more than Moiseiewitch certainly, and possibly more than Gieseking (who I can't remember at all) - with one exception. The final etude.

What I like about the Levy performance is the urgency of it. I listened, or rather started to listen, to Chitose Okashiro playing them after and thought, quite frankly, that they were much less fun.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Do we know that an authentic performance of a Schumann piece wouldn't use all those expressive devices?

The easy answer to that is if there were anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.   

Levy can be "different" all he wants. That doesn't make him "authentic".

This comment from a review of Franz Vorraber's Schumann has always intrigued me

Intriguing, yes. A crystal ball, no.

Don't confuse the score with the music.

Don't confuse charlatanism with the genuine article.

[Mandryka]

The easy answer to that is if there were anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.   

Levy can be "different" all he wants. That doesn't make him "authentic".

If I remember right (and it's entirely possible that I don't ) Harold Bauer is pretty expressive, in op 12. Cortot too in fact - there are some passages in his Kreisleriana which are extremely individual, I can't remember about Cortot's first record of the etudes.

I wonder what the earliest recording of the etudes is - was it Cortot? Or did Grainger record it?

The easy answer to that is if there were anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.   

Don't confuse charlatanism with the genuine article.

Do you feel the same about Pletnev?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Do you feel the same about Pletnev?

You'll have to clarify. I don't fully understand why you're asking.

[Sammy]

What I like about the Levy performance is the urgency of it. I listened, or rather started to listen, to Chitose Okashiro playing them after and thought, quite frankly, that they were much less fun.

You find fun in the Sym. Etudes?  Anyways, Okashiro's is one of my favorite versions; it has everything I could want out of the work.

If you want urgency, check out Natan Brand playing in Amherst/1983 on the APR label.  More than urgent, it's brutal.

[Mandryka]

You find fun in the Sym. Etudes?  Anyways, Okashiro's is one of my favorite versions; it has everything I could want out of the work.

If you want urgency, check out Natan Brand playing in Amherst/1983 on the APR label.  More than urgent, it's brutal.

My first impression is that  she played the music as if they were a sequence of studies, studies in tone and weight. I never felt sweep, inevitability across the whole sequence. I don't have a priori any objection to the tempos, I just felt that in her hands, things were a bit too turgid for me (contrast Gilels, who also (from memory - so possibly wrong) choses her sorts of tempos, but Gilels  is less heavy). I also felt that that at the emotional level things were a bit mundane compared with Cortot 1955 or Sofronitsky. And, as is often the case, I felt very conscious of her controling every little nuance. I don't get the impression of spontanious music making. What does she play - is it a Fazzioli?

I will give it more time given that you're so positive. These are only initial impressions, and I often end up loving your more challenging recommendations in the end

I like Brand's performance a lot. What do you think of Vorraber's? And there's Schliessmann of course.

[Holden]

THis is a performance of the Etudes that I instantly liked on first hearing and still like. It's a little bit different (playing order of central etudes, tempo, etc) but it really seems to work. The copy I have was sent to me by someone whose opinion I really value and who knew I would like it, as he does himself.

[Mandryka]

You'll have to clarify. I don't fully understand why you're asking.

My fault. I was in a hurry when I typed that this morning. You described Pletnev as iconoclastic, so I guess he's removed from any performance tradition. I was really wondering why (if?)  you thought Levy s a charlatan and Pletnev isn't.

[Mandryka]

THis is a performance of the Etudes that I instantly liked on first hearing and still like. It's a little bit different (playing order of central etudes, tempo, etc) but it really seems to work. The copy I have was sent to me by someone whose opinion I really value and who knew I would like it, as he does himself.

That's one of the few Barto Cds I enjoyed.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

My fault. I was in a hurry when I typed that this morning. You described Pletnev as iconoclastic, so I guess he's removed from any performance tradition. I was really wondering why (if?)  you thought Levy s a charlatan and Pletnev isn't.

Oh, I see. Well to be perfectly honest my "iconoclastic" comment was meant as a qualifying statement, intended to alert interested parties to Pletnev's mannerisms. IOW, it's an interpretation I enjoy but it's not without certain eccentricities I feel certain listeners might find off-putting (mainly owing to his use of ritardandos, which at first seem jarring but in toto seem completely natural).   

That's why I objected to your Levy recommendation so much. Among pianophiles Levy isn't unknown but the uninitiated deserve to be forewarned. It's like recommending a late Celibidache performance - certainly caveats are justified as a matter of principle simply as a courtesy. I mean, not everybody knows about Celibidache...much less Levy!!

If such a principle isn't a priority for certain posters that's okay by me of course. But like I said, don't be surprised if someone comes along and attempts to infuse a bit of perspective on occasion. That's all. 0:)

All that said, the differences between Pletnev and Levy can be boiled down to simply this: I can recognize the piece under Pletnev. Under Levy...man it's mash.

[Sammy]

I like Brand's performance a lot. What do you think of Vorraber's? And there's Schliessmann of course.

I did forget to mention Schliessmann - outstanding performance.  As for Vorraber, I have a couple of his Schumann discs and don't think all that well of them.

[North Star]

I need a lot more solo piano Schumann recordings.
I currently have Andsnes's PS no. 1 & Fantaisie, Pollini's PS no. 1, Perahia's Papillons, and Barto's Geistervariationen.

Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).

A box set (or two) (the EMI 200th year box? Another EMI box, from 2007, Pollini? Endres? Le Sage would be complete, but I have read that the performances aren't anything to write home about), possibly combined with a single CD (or several - Schuch's Kreisleriana, Freire's recent disc, etc?) would be OK. Keeping the total price low would be preferable, though.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).

My favorite one-stop Schumann set had always been the Egorov two-fer but lately it's gone OOP. It's all been absorbed into the Egorov complete box however if that kind of thing appeals.



[asin]B00004Z34M[/asin]

[asin]B00151HZ42[/asin]

[kishnevi]

I need a lot more solo piano Schumann recordings.
I currently have Andsnes's PS no. 1 & Fantaisie, Pollini's PS no. 1, Perahia's Papillons, and Barto's Geistervariationen.

Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).

A box set (or two) (the EMI 200th year box? Another EMI box, from 2007, Pollini? Endres? Le Sage would be complete, but I have read that the performances aren't anything to write home about), possibly combined with a single CD (or several - Schuch's Kreisleriana, Freire's recent disc, etc?) would be OK. Keeping the total price low would be preferable, though.

Have you checked into this one?  I found the performances in this box to range from solid to magnificent.
[asin]B004D3BPHW[/asin]

The magnificent applies to Schmidt-Leonardy in particular.  His contribution to that set is available as an individual item, and if you don't get the set,  get that.

Amazon also lists complete sets from Demus and Ashkenazy;  never heard them, although I'd go for the Demus first.

The EMI anniversary set, while far from complete, is a nice catch all;  beyond that I'd say it's pick and choose from a variety of pianists for individual pieces.

[Brian]

Have you checked into this one?  I found the performances in this box to range from solid to magnificent.
The magnificent applies to Schmidt-Leonardy in particular.  His contribution to that set is available as an individual item, and if you don't get the set,  get that.

Although it's been rather a long time since I listened, Klara Wurtz's contributions also struck me as being very good. Jed Distler also likes them.

[kishnevi]

Although it's been rather a long time since I listened, Klara Wurtz's contributions also struck me as being very good. Jed Distler also likes them.

For me, they were more to the solid end of the spectrum.  Of course, much of her contribution to that box was with pieces that have been recorded by, it seems, almost every pianist who has ever had a microphone plunked down in front of them, and she was therefore competing with several of the greats names in piano playing.

One otherwise good pianist who I found to be somewhat weak in Schumann, btw, is Angela Hewitt.

[Mandryka]

One otherwise good pianist who I found to be somewhat weak in Schumann, btw, is Angela Hewitt.

Probably right, but I rather enjoyed her DBT. I can't explain why except to say thay when I hear it I always think of those rock and roll dances where the man keeps all still and dignified and the woman twirls and pirouettes around him.