Coronavirus thread

[Pohjolas Daughter]

My wife has also started cranking out masks just this morning, for our family and a few local friends.

For the past 25+ years, my wife has made the same Christmas present for both my father-in-law and me -- each year she makes us each 3 pairs of boxer shorts, in the craziest, loudest, most amusing fabric she can find.  She has lots of bits of the fabric left over, so we are gettting a wild assortment of masks -- superheroes, Dr. Who, race cars, bright paisley, etc.....

This also allows me to occasionally drop in casual conversation the true fact that I haven't bought a pair of underwear in over a quarter of a century, which does get me some odd looks...   

 

[Ratliff]

Bring back those 17th century beak masks, I say.

It wasn't just the shape. I seem to recall they were filled with some sort of botanical potion that was supposed to neutralize the bad vapors.

[André]

It wasn't just the shape. I seem to recall they were filled with some sort of botanical potion that was supposed to neutralize the bad vapors.

Yes. Herbs.

[SimonNZ]

British 5G towers are being set on fire amid coronavirus conspiracy theories

"5G phone masts are being set alight in the UK, after online conspiracy theories have misleadingly linked the cell towers to the coronavirus pandemic. The BBC reports that at least three 5G towers were set alight within the last week, and police and fire services were called to extinguish the flames.

"I'm absolutely outraged and disgusted that people would be taking action against the infrastructure we need to tackle this emergency," said Stephen Powis, the National Health Service (NHS) director, at a daily UK coronavirus briefing. Police have now launched investigations into how the 5G towers caught fire.

Rumors and conspiracy theories over a link between the roll out of 5G and the spread of coronavirus have been spread primarily through social media networks. A variety of groups exist on Facebook and Nextdoor, where thousands of members repeat false and misleading claims that 5G is supposedly harmful.

One theory claims that the novel coronavirus originated in Wuhan because the Chinese city had recently been rolling out 5G. It's now supposedly spread to other cities that are also using 5G. These false conspiracy theories neglect to mention that a highly contagious virus would naturally spread more in densely populated cities with access to 5G, and that the coronavirus pandemic has hit counties like Iran and Japan where 5G isn't in use yet."[...]

[BasilValentine]

There have been nearly 1.400 deaths in the U.S. from Covid-19 in the last 24 hours.

[Kaga2]

There have been nearly 1.400 deaths in the U.S. from Covid-19 in the last 24 hours.

And every day I fight with denialists on the web. One fool predicted 7500 dead in the US for the entire epidemic. I said we past that already. Response:

"We are well past that already."

You don't know that. You know what you're told. Believing it uncritically is a giveaway that, despite your advanced years, maybe you're not very bright.

Testing accuracy has been a major concern for this entire crisis. That's to be expected with a new disease - that being what "novel" in "Novel Coronavirus" means, after all.

So why do you believe these numbers? Do you REALLY believe that every death cert with "COVID-19" listed as a primary or contributing cause is 100% correct?

I am willing to bet the 5G arsonists are easier to reason with.

[Daverz]

And every day I fight with denialists on the web. One fool predicted 7500 dead in the US for the entire epidemic. I said we past that already. Response:
I am willing to bet the 5G arsonists are easier to reason with.

It's like a mental version of the grey goo of apocalyptic science fiction.

[SimonNZ]

Marianne Faithfull hospitalised with coronavirus

[Florestan]

It's one thing to make your own masks, but there is a value in not getting TOO artistic...



 

Honestly, I can't stand wearing a mask, it gets moistured on the inside in less than a minute and becomes extremely uncomfortable in five. I really tried but I can't.

[Mandryka]

BBC article on Holland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52135814

[Que]

BBC article on Holland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52135814

Rather suggestive and sensationalist journalism.....
Shame on you, BBC.... though this seems to be a free lancer that sold her "story" to different news outlets.

The Dutch are portrayed as cold and calculating,  with little consideration for their fellow man and fellow Europeans.
The piece does not contain any news, just a rehash of bits and pieces that have been already out there.

At the beginning of the crisis there was a brief spat about whether "herd" (group) immunity was the objective of the government approach. A similar discussion took place in the UK, actually. The issue was quickly side lined and group immunity as a objective isn't compatible with the current strategy, which will actually significantly delay or even prevent the build up of that level of immunity. Still, the matter is here rehashed and ostentatiously dished out....

But the Dutch lockdown is indeed in a few respects less strict then in many other countries.
Schools and day cares are closed, but still receive children of essential workers.
Public transportation is still running, though trains, trams and buses are practically empty.
Apart from restaurants bars, cinemas, theatres, etc. there hasn't been a mandatory closure of all businesses, though a lot are closed. Businesses that are still open apply strict rules on social distancing.

Whether this creates any significant additional risk, is anyone's guess.
But the claim about a relatively high mortality rate in the Netherlands, is a total and unsubstantiated shot in the dark...

The mystery of the true coronavirus death rate

Without comprehensive testing and more precision over the cause of fatalities global comparisons should be treated with caution

If we look at the numbers on the development of the virus, the alarmist tone in the article is not confirmed by the facts.
The situation in the Netherlands roughly compares with Belgium and Germany, though Germany has a very low number of fatalities in comparison to any European country. The situation is definitely less severe than France, Italy and Spain, and might - depending of future developments there - compare favourable to the UK and the US.



The spread of the virus has slowed down significantly in the past few days and hopes are that the expanded IC capacity will be sufficient and the use of emergency locations mentioned in the article will not be necessary.
A limited number of patients has been transferred to German hospitals, mainly to take away some pressure on the hospitals in the South of the Netherlands, and because they were closer.

I love the "thrilling" conclusion the end of the article:

"The worry is that the Dutch approach may be based more on aspiration than actual intelligence, and that the Netherlands' "intelligent lockdown" does not make the country immune."

No, as I pointed out before, the current approach will not lead to group immunity.
But the point is, NOBODY claims that it will....

Q

[Kaga2]

Excellent comment Que.

Everyone is too damn certain. (And their certainty strangely aligns with their prior political beliefs too.) And reporters are the most certain of all. There are many considerations, and many balls to juggle. Local conditions matter.
A little epistemic modesty is called for.

[Rinaldo]

Bring back those 17th century beak masks, I say.

Prague obliges. Snapped by a friend few days ago:

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Prague obliges. Snapped by a friend few days ago:

[Irons]

Sweden is an interesting experiment as they are carrying on as normal. I trust we are going down the right path with freedoms curtailed and economies trashed, but supposing as the Spanish flue did a century ago, a more virulent strain returns next year, and again the year after?

If there is an alternative way of managing this crises, I am uneasy that it is not voiced. As said in an article in today's newspaper, a car is lethal and kills millions worldwide but nobody demands banning the car. Being the devil's advocate, we may have to learn to live with coronavirus not defeat it. 


 

[Ratliff]

Sweden is an interesting experiment as they are carrying on as normal. I trust we are going down the right path with freedoms curtailed and economies trashed, but supposing as the Spanish flue did a century ago, a more virulent strain returns next year, and again the year after?

If there is an alternative way of managing this crises, I am uneasy that it is not voiced. As said in an article in today's newspaper, a car is lethal and kills millions worldwide but nobody demands banning the car. Being the devil's advocate, we may have to learn to live with coronavirus not defeat it. 

In the US cars kill 50,000 a year. Coronavirus would kill 2 million, without countermeasures. That's another level.

[Kaga2]

Sweden is an interesting experiment as they are carrying on as normal. I trust we are going down the right path with freedoms curtailed and economies trashed, but supposing as the Spanish flue did a century ago, a more virulent strain returns next year, and again the year after?

If there is an alternative way of managing this crises, I am uneasy that it is not voiced. As said in an article in today's newspaper, a car is lethal and kills millions worldwide but nobody demands banning the car. Being the devil's advocate, we may have to learn to live with coronavirus not defeat it. 

We might indeed have to learn to live with it. That was the firstBrit approach, and it came from serious scientists.  But it's an awfully big bet to say, right now, that we should accept that fate. It's a matter of risk management. We have several arrows in our quiver. If any one of them will prove effective then our current approach will pay big dividends, and that approach would have foregone them. And the dividends are potentially very big indeed. The car numbers are not a good comparison to the potential damage here. Car deaths don't grow exponentially.
If the only hope we had was a vaccine then it might be reasonable to bet it will be a long time in coming. But that's not our only arrow.

[71 dB]

Bring back those 17th century beak masks, I say.

Wow, I didn't know what those are called and that those were used by doctors to protect themselves from airbourne diseases! I always assumed those were used by the aristorats amusing themselves by making themselves look like birds! 

[Ratliff]

We might indeed have to learn to live with it. That was the firstBrit approach, and it came from serious scientists.  But it's an awfully big bet to say, right now, that we should accept that fate. It's a matter of risk management. We have several arrows in our quiver. If any one of them will prove effective then our current approach will pay big dividends, and that approach would have foregone them. And the dividends are potentially very big indeed. The car numbers are not a good comparison to the potential damage here. Car deaths don't grow exponentially.
If the only hope we had was a vaccine then it might be reasonable to bet it will be a long time in coming. But that's not our only arrow.

I wouldn't say the vaccine is one arrow in our quiver. It is our hydrogen bomb, but we also have several experimental sling shots in the works.

I'm curious AZT, the aids drug, wouldn't be an option. I suspect because AZT targets the HIV reverse transcriptase, and prevents replication. It would not be effective against a virus that uses the native human reverse transcriptase or has a reverse transcriptase that AZT doesn't bind well to for replication.

[Mandryka]

London today

https://www.youtube.com/v/CL9E56c4Vx0