Coronavirus thread

[drogulus]

19 When people tell you, "Try out the fortunetellers. Consult the spiritualists. Why not tap into the spirit-world, get in touch with the dead?" 20 Tell them, "No, we're going to study the Scriptures." People who try the other ways get nowhere - a dead end! 21 Frustrated and famished, they try one thing after another. When nothing works out they get angry, cursing first this god and then that one, Looking this way and that, 22 up, down, and sideways - and seeing nothing, A blank wall, an empty hole. They end up in the dark with nothing.

     

[steve ridgway]

     

Oh are you quoting Jesus at me too?

[T. D.]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-19/undermining-the-cdc-while-coronavirus-spreads-puts-lives-at-risk

It's an op-ed piece. Arguments make sense to me.

[vandermolen]

I just googled it. Isaiah 8. Oops .

19 When people tell you, "Try out the fortunetellers. Consult the spiritualists. Why not tap into the spirit-world, get in touch with the dead?" 20 Tell them, "No, we're going to study the Scriptures." People who try the other ways get nowhere - a dead end! 21 Frustrated and famished, they try one thing after another. When nothing works out they get angry, cursing first this god and then that one, Looking this way and that, 22 up, down, and sideways - and seeing nothing, A blank wall, an empty hole. They end up in the dark with nothing.

Yes, that must be it 

[Que]

Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine triggers immune response  (BBC)

So, what is Trump going to do now.....? 

Buy Oxford University?

Q

[Todd]

Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine triggers immune response  (BBC)

So, what is Trump going to do now.....? 

Buy Oxford University?

Q

The UK could use a good trade agreement right about now.

Hopefully, fourteen point font translates into medical efficacy.

[Que]

The UK could use a good trade agreement right about now.

The thought  crossed my mind as well. That's going to be very, very generous trade agreement.

Hopefully, fourteen point font translates into medical efficacy.

We'll see.

[Todd]

The thought  crossed my mind as well. That's going to be very, very generous trade agreement.

Or a ho hum one accompanied by an implicit threat to limit the Bank of England's access to the Fed.

We'll see.

I suppose we will also see if Oxford will be able to address production, distribution, and deployment of the vaccine if it works. 

The Covid crisis has exposed a tendency toward Pollyannaish outlooks by a lot of people.  There are some who believe that economic hardship will be short-lived, and others who believe that the power of modern medical science will deliver a timely cure that will wipe away the disease for a large section of humanity in a matter of months.  This would be unprecedented.  It is not impossible, of course.  I tend to think that economic stagnation, years long elimination of entire sectors of economies the world over, increased inequality in some regions, and an evolution of Covid into a global endemic disease are more likely outcomes.  The 2020s may very well become a global lost decade.  Vaccines are needed and research should be very generously funded everywhere, but it does not appear at all clear that presently researched vaccines will be more effective over time than influenza vaccines.  If the cited vaccine is the magic bullet that makes everything go away, great, I'm all for it.  Give the researchers Nobel Prizes, reward them with peerages or whatnot, create a new holiday, erect monuments, etc.  But, as you wrote, we'll see.

[drogulus]

     How Long Does COVID-19 Immunity Last?

     The recent news about declining immunity after a few months may not be as bad as it first seemed. They didn't measure the entire immune response and didn't account for the way a weak initial response to a virus exposure can become stronger, like a head start. Flu vaccines typically work like that. And best of all, perhaps, is the discovery that immunity gained from exposure to the SARS virus years ago gives such a boost to the Covid immune response.

[BWV 1080]

I suppose we will also see if Oxford will be able to address production, distribution, and deployment of the vaccine if it works. 

AstraZeneca partnered with Oxford  and agreed to distribute largely at cost

[Todd]

AstraZeneca partnered with Oxford  and agreed to distribute largely at cost

Sweet.  Hopefully it is safe, works, and can be distributed and administered globally at levels sufficient to establish global herd immunity.  (Or even national level herd immunity, rich countries first.)  And hopefully the effects last.  And hopefully Covid doesn't mutate in such a manner necessitating a new vaccine.

[Todd]

From a couple months back: U.S. gives AstraZeneca $1.2 billion to fund Oxford University coronavirus vaccine — America would get 300 million doses beginning in October

So, looks like the Oxford potential breakthrough is funded by Uncle Sam's U.S. Biomedical Research and Development Authority.  Trump won't have to buy Oxford; he already bought the vaccine.  OWS may work.  Trump's reelection plan may save the world. 

[Que]

Smart move from Trump...

Seems Several EU countries made a similar move: AstraZeneca to supply Europe with up to 400 million doses of Oxford University's vaccine at no profit

[Todd]

Smart move from Trump...

Seems Several EU countries made a similar move: AstraZeneca to supply Europe with up to 400 million doses of Oxford University's vaccine at no profit

Why did it take European leaders a month longer than Trump to cut a deal?

Of course, a similar question is why did it take so long for European leaders to take anything remotely close to serious action on the economic front in response to Covid: E.U. Adopts Groundbreaking Stimulus to Fight Coronavirus Recession. 

And do remember, the Oxford research project is only one of many research projects funded by Uncle Sam. 

[Florestan]

why did it take so long for European leaders to take anything remotely close to serious action on the economic front in response to Covid: E.U. Adopts Groundbreaking Stimulus to Fight Coronavirus Recession. 

Because the EU is far from being a monolithic conglomerate run by an elitist clique in Brussels which has it the way they want, when they want* --- as some anti-EU propaganda paints it. When it comes to concrete, decisive, all-for-one-and-one-for all actions and measures, the EU is not much different from Offenbach's carabiniers. 

(*it's actually run by an elitist clique located in Berlin, Amsterdam and Vienna, with Paris trying hard to join the club and regain their long lost power and prestige.  )

That being said, I'd rather have Romania within EU than without. There is no next best option for us, really. We Romanians have a proverb: it's bad with bad but without bad it's worse.

[Todd]

Because the EU is far from being a monolithic conglomerate run by an elitist clique in Brussels which has it the way they want, when they want* --- as some anti-EU propaganda paints it.

That's true, but given the severity and gravity of the situation, and the unparalleled moral and intellectual standing of European officials, I would have thought that this would offer a perfect moment for Europe to lead, not to rely on American money and initiative.  Well, at least someone has taken the time and effort to cast a wide net, backed with actual money, to develop a vaccine.

[SimonNZ]

German Jewish leaders fear rise of antisemitic conspiracy theories linked to Covid-19
Opponents of lockdown holding Jews increasingly responsible for spread of virus

"A leader of Germany's Jewish community has expressed alarm at the spread of antisemitic conspiracy theories relating to coronavirus in the country, including attempts to downplay the Holocaust.

Josef Schuster, the president of the Central Council of Jews, said Jews were increasingly being held collectively responsible for the spread of the virus and compared the situation to narratives around the plague in the Middle Ages.

At high-profile demonstrations against coronavirus measures, figures such as the Hungarian-born financier George Soros have been blamed for starting the pandemic with the help of the German government in order to gain power and influence.

One prominent participant in the demonstrations, the celebrity TV chef Attila Hildmann, has espoused increasingly elaborate conspiracy theories over the course of the coronavirus crisis that have praised Adolf Hitler and described the chancellor, Angela Merkel, as a communist dictator. State prosecutors say they are investigating whether they can press charges against him.

Schuster said of particular concern to him were the frequent comparisons being made between the measures taken to dampen the spread of the pandemic and the treatment of Jewish people under the Nazis. Anti-vaxxer demonstrators at so-called "hygiene demonstrations" have often worn yellow stars similar to those Jews were forced to wear during the Third Reich, but bearing the word ungeimpft (unvaccinated) instead of Jude (Jew). Their wearers have said when a vaccination against coronavirus becomes available they will refuse to be inoculated, seeing themselves as victims of a dictatorship."[...]

[Que]

The Unchecked Rise in Cases Turns Deadly: This Week in COVID-19 Data, July 16

The US is approaching half a million new cases of COVID-19 each week. States with major outbreaks including Arizona, California, Florida, and Texas all saw record high weekly hospitalizations and deaths. Meanwhile, worsening outbreaks in many other states threaten to increase the pandemic's death toll in the coming weeks.

So why hasn't the USA been able to contain the spread of the virus?

I guess it is not as easy as waving with your wallet or bullying other countries around in order to obtain vital assets?

And all the vaccine talk and chest beating about money shouldn't distract us from the reality that even if efforts to develop a vaccine are successful and quick, it won't be available any time soon and certainly not before a second wave will hit the world.

Q

[T. D.]

The Unchecked Rise in Cases Turns Deadly: This Week in COVID-19 Data, July 16

The US is approaching half a million new cases of COVID-19 each week. States with major outbreaks including Arizona, California, Florida, and Texas all saw record high weekly hospitalizations and deaths. Meanwhile, worsening outbreaks in many other states threaten to increase the pandemic's death toll in the coming weeks.

So why hasn't the USA been able to contain the spread of the virus?

I guess it is not as easy as waving with your wallet or bullying other countries around in order to obtain vital assets?

And all the vaccine talk and chest beating about money shouldn't distract us from the reality that even if efforts to develop a vaccine are successful and quick, it won't be available any time soon and certainly not before a second wave will hit the world.

Q

Well said (emphasis added).

For an example of how a rational and non-backward country responded, see

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/germanys-coronavirus-response-masterful-science-communication.html

"...
Germany has confirmed more than 200,000 cases of Covid-19 and more than 9,000 deaths in a population of more than 83 million. Germany's mortality rate per 100,000 is among the lowest in Europe. By way of comparison, the U.S., with about four times the population, has had more than 3.8 million cases and 140,000 deaths.

What went really well
Science communication
Germany, like many other countries, had a contingent of people who fought lockdowns and argued that Covid-19 was a hoax. But it also had a handful of prominent scientists communicating regularly and openly with the public. That played a huge role in drowning out rumors and misinformation, locals tell CNBC.

"We have a great educational system and everyone has access to it," said Dennis Traub, a tech worker in Hamburg, Germany. "So I believe that many people and the majority listened to both sides and one of those sides sounded much more reasonable." ..."

[Todd]

So why hasn't the USA been able to contain the spread of the virus?

I thought it was pretty well known at this point. Trump has been as bad as a president can be in effectively using his limited executive power in the public health space.  Additionally, he opted to try to politicize the disease in the foolish hope that it was not serious.  (Trump has, however, done a very good job at the economic response.)  There has been a lack of coordination between federal authorities and state authorities.  There has been a lack of coordination between different state authorities.  There has been poor or at least terribly uncoordinated leadership at the state and local level across much of the country.  And large portions of the the populace, of varying degrees of intelligence, have ignored the advice of public health officials, ignore and/or distrust science, and resist authoritarian edicts, even when they are for the public's good.  At least, that's what I've gleaned from the unending press coverage.  Perhaps your understanding is materially different.

I guess it is not as easy as waving with your wallet or bullying other countries around in order to obtain vital assets?

Spending vast sums around the world on R&D and equipment is necessary to achieve public health goals, and one of the spillover benefits of US spending may turn out to be a vaccine that saves millions of lives all over the world.  Since Europe failed to lead - again - the US sort of did.  I mean, Europeans didn't lead here, they didn't lead in 2007-2008, and they didn't lead even during the Yugoslav Wars.  Maybe one day European leaders will live up to their limitless potential; maybe they will lead during the next big crisis.  (jk)

Germany has confirmed more than 200,000 cases of Covid-19 and more than 9,000 deaths in a population of more than 83 million . . .

Germany is the one large country in Europe that has shown how to manage a crisis, at least domestically.  Germany will reap a variety of rewards.  Good work, Ms Merkel, et al! 

Of course, a host of Asian countries have done an even better job than Germany.