Coronavirus thread

[Mandryka]

Yes, I agree. Here in the UK our NHS is one of the few things as a nation we can be proud of. The monetary cost does not bear thing about though and isn't sustainable in the medium or long term. Politically impossible to change to an official state/private partnership but to get around this the NHS pays the private sector. In my location all knee and hip replacements are performed in a private hospital for the NHS, indeed I had cataract surgery recently at the same hospital and treated as a fee paying private patient.   

I suppose more and more of it will be put into the private sector, part of the chumocracy, and more and more of it will need to be paid for at the point of need. Maybe we're close to the time when, if you've got bad hip arthritis, you can get some Tramadol for free, but if you want a nice new hip you have to sell the family jewels to pay for part of the job. I'm sure this could be sold to the electorate - it is elective surgery after all. And we've got to pay for COVID.

And there are whole sections of it which could be sold off on the quiet and no one would care because they're so unfashionable -  pharmacology, for example, and mental health and geriatrics.

[JBS]

Lockdown riots in the Netherlands? What is happening there?

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I suppose more and more of it will be put into the private sector, part of the chumocracy, and more and more of it will need to be paid for at the point of need. Maybe we're close to the time when, if you've got bad hip arthritis, you can get some Tramadol for free, but if you want a nice new hip you have to sell the family jewels to pay for part of the job. I'm sure this could be sold to the electorate - it is elective surgery after all. And we've got to pay for COVID.

And there are whole sections of it which could be sold off on the quiet and no one would care because they're so unfashionable -  pharmacology, for example, and mental health and geriatrics.

Wondering about the riots in the Netherlands like JBS?

Lockdown riots in the Netherlands? What is happening there?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55799919

[Mandryka]

Wondering about the riots in the Netherlands like JBS?

I'll let que comment first.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

If I knew the perfect solution for that, they would give me the Nobel price.

Risks with a state run system are bureaucracy and inefficiency and suboptimal quality.

Privitisation also leads to inefficiency, but of a different kind: resources are no longer pooled.
Privitisation leads to companies trying to optimise their profits, and not the quality of the care. Another problem is risk selection: insurers will try to attract healthier clients, hospitals will focus on the most profitable treatements.

A universal healthcare system with some market elements mixed in, will probably be the best solution.
But I haven't seen the right mix yet. In the Netherlands the privitisation of hospitals and of home care hasn't proven to be such an amazing idea. The full privitisation of health care insurance, with mandatory minimum package, universal acceptance and risk compensation between insurers, worked a bit better. Private insurers push hospitals for better quality, but are also trying to fob people off with cheaper medications....

Q

Another factor to be considered would be a moral hazard. Theoretically (and often evidently), people are less likely to take care of their health if a (govtl) insurance pay a large portion of the medical cost.  In the U.S.A., so many people eat ridiculous amount food, and/or ridiculous kind of food, and they don't exercise. Many people have diabetes, heart problem, etc.  A generous healthcare system with low copayment etc. may not improve the discipline/condition in population. Some countries maintain govtl healthcare with low copayment because the people strive to maintain good health anyway.
However, good things about govtl healthcare include economy of scale, generosity, response to market inefficiencies, etc.  On the other hand, a good thing about privatization would be a market competition if the market is efficient.

[MusicTurner]

Lockdown riots in the Netherlands? What is happening there?

1) I don't know 100% about the Netherlands, but as said those rallies in Copenhagen were very small, and foreign press has certainly been exaggerating them, also because of some intriguing pictures. They are not in any way representative of the opinions of the general population.

2) in our local mink farmer case, compensations have now been settled, and it will be a major expense - DKK 19 billion, or around 2.5 billion Euros. Apparently each farmer (there are about 1200 of them) will get around 12 million DKK or 1.7 million Euros, and lost future income for about 10 years has been thought of too ...

[Que]

Lockdown riots in the Netherlands? What is happening there?

These riots took everybody by surprise, and appear only partly linked to discontent over the government's COVID measures.
Thry are still trying to figure out who these people are and what their motives are.

My first impressions:

Firstly, it seems that a significant part of the population has not been immune to internet conspiracy theories and nonsense about the virus. I found a pamphlet in my letterbox last night about toxic vaccines, Maya predictions of this pandemic and Rudolf Steiner - the loonies are out in full force and trying to take over the asylum.... 
Add to that a strong anti-authoritarian tradition, which has been triggered by the severe restrictions on public life. This is the group that has been, mostly peacefully , demonstrating. Though ignoring instructions on the demonstrations.

These demonstrations have been hijacked by the real rioters: young men driven by anti-governement sentiments and frustrations about their poor chances in society. They have few opportunities because of their low/lack of education and/or because of systematic discrimination against etnic minorities in the labour market. An entire generation of poorly educated disenfranchised young people - both white/Dutch & from ethnic minorities - is stuck in present day, modern hightech and white-dominated society.
The educated and more articulate young from etnic minorities have peacefully demonstrated in BLM demonstrations this summer, but the less fortunate are now throwing stones and smashing windows.

The rioters are augmented and reinforced by the third group: the lookers on, that are bored and fed up with the lockdown and are looking for sensation. With the continuation of the riots, most of the first and third group will drop out.

I see a lot of similarities with the situation in other Western countries, not least of all the US.

Q

[Irons]

These riots took everybody by surprise, and appear only partly linked to discontent over the government's COVID measures.
Thry are still trying to figure out who these people are and what their motives are.

My first impressions:

Firstly, it seems that a significant part of the population has not been immune to internet conspiracy theories and nonsense about the virus. I found a pamphlet in my letterbox last night about toxid vaccines, Maya predictions of this pandemic and Rudolf Steiner - the loonies are out in full force and trying to take over the asylum.... 
Add to that a strong anti-authoritarian tradition, which has been triggered by the severe restrictions on public life. This is the group that has been, mostly peacefully , demonstrating. Though ignoring instructions on the demonstrations.

These demonstrations have been hijacked by the real rioters: young men driven by anti-governemnt sentiments and frustrations about their poor chances in society. They have few opportunities because of their low/lack of education and/or because of systematic discrimination against etnic minorities in the labour market. An entire generation of poorly educated disenfranchised young people - both white/Dutch & from ethnic minorities - is stuck in present day, modern hightech and white-dominated society.
The educated and more articulate young from etnic minorities have peacefully demonstrated in BLM demonstrations this summer, but the less fortunate are now throwing stones and smashing windows.

The rioters are augmented and reinforced by the third group: the lookers on, that are bored and fed up with the lockdown and are looking for sensation. With the continuation of the riots, most of the first and third group will drop out.

I see a lot of similarities with the situation in other Western countries, not least of all the US.

Q

So do I. The White House siege has set a very dangerous precedent.

[vandermolen]

So do I. The White House siege has set a very dangerous precedent.

+1 (sadly)

My wife is getting her first jab today even though she is seven years younger than me, although that is because, as a BSL Interpreter, she often works in hospitals.

[Mandryka]

So do I. The White House siege has set a very dangerous precedent.

Les gilets jaunes avant tout de ca

https://www.youtube.com/v/Kszvq_618HE&ab_channel=BFMTV

[Que]

Les gilets jaunes avant tout de ca

https://www.youtube.com/v/Kszvq_618HE&ab_channel=BFMTV

Yep. And there are of course legitimate concerns over a growing social and economic divide and an entire group of the population becoming economically "redundant".

The pandemic is triggering social tensions that were already there.

[Mandryka]

Yep. And there are of course legitimate concerns over a growing social and economic divide and an entire group of the population becoming economically "redundant".

The pandemic is triggering social tensions that were already there.

I wonder whether the young will end up paying for this pandemic through income tax and decreased job security and decreased welfare entitlements, or whether the burden will be shouldered by the property owning pensioned boomers.

And if the former, what the consequences will be.

[Mandryka]

I wonder if Europe will start to restrict exports of vaccine to none EU countries. Or indeed whether the USA will restrict vaccine exports too.

This is the sort of thing that wars are made of.


(Good job AZ is made in Wales!)

[T. D.]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-26/u-s-lags-in-dna-surveillance-of-worrisome-covid-19-variants

The U.S. faces a steep uphill struggle in gearing up to monitor Covid-19 variants, a key part of watching for the emergence of dangerous mutations that might spread quickly, evade vaccines or kill more infected people.

Other countries, such as the U.K., have established robust, nationwide DNA surveillance programs to identify new covid genomes and track the spread of existing ones. But the U.S. has not: It ranks 32nd in the world for the number of sequences completed per 1,000 Covid cases, according to data from GISAID, a global database where researchers share new genomes.

While the Biden administration is promising to boost the country's sequencing efforts, it won't be easy. The U.S. system now in place includes a scattered constellation of academic, commercial and public health labs that typically are both underfunded and under-resourced. This amounts to a gaping hole in national security at a time when at least three dangerous global variants have already been identified and others are yet to be unearthed.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

So do I. The White House siege has set a very dangerous precedent.

+1 (sadly)

My wife is getting her first jab today even though she is seven years younger than me, although that is because, as a BSL Interpreter, she often works in hospitals.

But you didn't/don't have a leader saying for months that the election was stolen from them, that there was a ton of fraudulent voting, etc., etc., and then inciting his fans (and fellow Americans) to go marching on the Capitol.

Hope that all goes smoothly and that your wife doesn't have a bad reaction to the vaccine.  Fingers crossed for you.

PD

[Karl Henning]

So do I. The White House siege has set a very dangerous precedent.

And we in the US still face the enormous problem that, as of 3 Nov, at least, 70 million Americans still didn't see anything objectionable to having a man-baby POTUS.  And still, far too many Reoublicans are in deniable of the gravity of 6 Jan.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

And we in the US still face the enormous problem that, as of 3 Nov, at least, 70 million Americans still didn't see anything objectionable to having a man-baby POTUS.  And still, far too many Republicans are in denial of the gravity of 6 Jan.

Sadly both too true.  I wonder how many of the people who voted for him have since changed how they view him and the election and what their thoughts are about the storming of the Capitol?

What sickens me:  some of the Republicans in Congress who changed their views about him and the election have flipped back over for him!

PD

[Iota]

Hope you saw this

Tory donor Lord Ashcroft's outsourcing firm lands £350m vaccination contract

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-tory-donor-lord-ashcrofts-outsourcing-firm-given-350m-vaccination-contract/

Thanks. A depressingly familiar tale, and particularly concerning in light of Care Quality Commission's report on their earlier 'inadequate' handling of a homecare service.

The following also hardly inspires confidence. Why would sections be redacted, when it's clearly not in the public interest, and not a matter of national security.

".. The public version of the contract between government and Medacs has been heavily redacted and does not include key sections – including the 'contract charges' and details of the services being provided .."

[Mandryka]

Thanks. A depressingly familiar tale, and particularly concerning in light of Care Quality Commission's report on their earlier 'inadequate' handling of a homecare service.

The following also hardly inspires confidence. Why would sections be redacted, when it's clearly not in the public interest, and not a matter of national security.

".. The public version of the contract between government and Medacs has been heavily redacted and does not include key sections – including the 'contract charges' and details of the services being provided .."

They're tough feeding.

[vandermolen]

But you didn't/don't have a leader saying for months that the election was stolen from them, that there was a ton of fraudulent voting, etc., etc., and then inciting his fans (and fellow Americans) to go marching on the Capitol.

Hope that all goes smoothly and that your wife doesn't have a bad reaction to the vaccine.  Fingers crossed for you.

PD

Seemed to go fine thanks PD.