Coronavirus thread

[MusicTurner]

Which standard of paper mask? How long do they protect at that level for? What happens if they're touched? Reworn after a few hours? What about non standard masks? What if they're not worn properly?

I've got a paper mask in my pocket, I'm not sure if it meets a standard, bought cheap ones from Amazon months ago, it has been in my pocket for about two months, rubbing against my wallet and keys, I get it out when I go into a shop, it seems to keep everyone happy.

It's from a television report, I found the website content, mostly based on American, official sources. Here's the website version
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2021-02-11-dobbelt-mundbind-er-langt-mere-effektivt-viser-ny-forskning
They combined it with checking textile masks from interviewed people at a Copenhagen station, using a Danish expert and related equipment. There are some links to sources in English etc., you'd probably not want to use google translate.

It's the standard blue paper masks you'll tend to see everywhere. Obviously you have to cover your nose completely and press it tightly against the sides of the nose, etc.

No doubt this is simplified information, and of course it's being debated as well. Honestly I don't care about those details, the main thing for me is that there can be a, not insignificant, measurable effect, if they are used properly. That's about it, as far as I'm concerned. But I really think they should mark the measured effect better on the on the paper masks that are being sold, and easily decipherable.

[prémont]

Most of the standard masks we purchase in Denmark are produced in China but certificated by EU. Use only approved masks.

Use them only for four hours all in all and afterwards discard them, because they get wet with time from your humid expiratory air., and then their protective function is compromised.. If they get wet accidentally, you must also discard them.

When you wear a mask, you protect the surroundings more, than you are protected yourself. This is why I use both mask and standard visir at the same time.

[Mandryka]

Most of the standard masks we purchase in Denmark are produced in China but certificated by EU. Use only approved masks.

Use them only for four hours all in all and afterwards discard them, because they get wet with time from your humid expiratory air., and then their protective function is compromised.. If they get wet accidentally, you must also discard them.

When you wear a mask, you protect the surroundings more, than you are protected yourself. This is why I use both mask and standard visir at the same time.

Fair enough, but people don't do that. I don't do that. That's why I'm sceptical about the value of mask wearing in the real world -- obviously if people wore a "standard" mask properly, and for a limited time, that would be different, but it's not relevant.

There is a cost to "proper" masks which the UK government have left to the population to foot. That shows that they're not serious about masks IMO.

There's also a question of feasibility -- on hot public transport for example, the tube where there's no aircon, or in schools.

[MusicTurner]

Fair enough, but people don't do that. I don't do that. That's why I'm sceptical about the value of mask wearing in the real world -- obviously if people wore a "standard" mask properly, and for a limited time, that would be different, but it's not relevant.

There is a cost to "proper" masks which the UK government have left to the population to foot. That shows that they're not serious about masks IMO.

There's also a question of feasibility -- on hot public transport for example, the tube where there's no aircon, or in schools.

Your remarks seem to be a combination of some different circumstances, but first and foremost personal attitude. Those masks cost around DKK 1 - 2 a piece here, that is, 10-20 pence, prices must be the same in the UK. Some parts of the population, depending on the degree of poverty, will feel this as costly, but the majority not.

[prémont]

Fair enough, but people don't do that. I don't do that. That's why I'm sceptical about the value of mask wearing in the real world -- obviously if people wore a "standard" mask properly, and for a limited time, that would be different, but it's not relevant.

Yes, the protective value of masks grows of course with the number of people who wear masks. But the only thing each of us can do is to wear a mask ourself.

There is a cost to "proper" masks which the UK government have left to the population to foot. That shows that they're not serious about masks IMO.

We can purchase approved masks for little cost. Many costs 2 DKr = ca. 1/4 EURO, but some stores sell them for half of that amount.

There's also a question of feasibility -- on hot public transport for example, the tube where there's no aircon, or in schools.

Masks are uncomfortable to wear, no doubt.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

If nothing else masks remind us to be cautious with our interactions in daily life. Invaluable for that alone.

+1

I've seen news stories before regarding which types are the most effective.  They are now recommending wearing one of those blue medical masks (readily available at pharmacies in my area these days) with a cloth one over that.  The problem with just using the blue ones is that a gap develops around the middle of the cheek along the edges.

I also try and keep my distance even outside--though it's not always easy in stores.  Personally, I use hand sanitizer often, keep my hands away from my mouth, nose and eyes and wash my hands well when I get back home.

PD

[Mandryka]

Your remarks seem to be a combination of some different circumstances, but first and foremost personal attitude. Those masks cost around DKK 1 - 2 a piece here, that is, 10-20 pence, prices must be the same in the UK. Some parts of the population, depending on the degree of poverty, will feel this as costly, but the majority not.

The masks which meet a standard are much more expensive in the UK. Everyone has to pay, no matter their financial status.

As far as whether my comments are a reflection of my personal attitude or not, I really don't know because I've never seen research into the uses and attitudes of mask against covid in the UK population. But quite frankly, I think you're wrong to be so dismissive. Of course things may well be different where you are.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Interesting re costs.  Last time I checked they were much more expensive.  Some places (like the library) do also offer free masks for those who don't have one to use whilst in there.

PD

[Mandryka]

Here's the mask page from a large popular UK pharmacy, so you can get an idea of costs. Presumably elsewhere they are price controlled or subsidised. But in the UK the government doesn't take it seriously enough for that. Even elderly and sick people have to pay the market rate.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/collections/face-masks?sortBy=shopify_production_products_price_asc

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Interesting...thanks.  I may have to try ordering some 3-ply off Amazon.  I have a cloth mask made by a friend but it's hard to use as it has ties vs. ear loops.

PD

[MusicTurner]

Here's the mask page from a large popular UK pharmacy, so you can get an idea of costs. Presumably elsewhere they are price controlled or subsidised. But in the UK the government doesn't take it seriously enough for that. Even elderly and sick people have to pay the market rate.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/collections/face-masks?sortBy=shopify_production_products_price_asc

That is surprisingly, and too, expensive then, originally prices began like that in DK too - it says £6 for 10x paper masks.
I checked Tesco, and they're just very slightly cheaper, £5. I can see how this cuts off parts of the population.

One would think that there'd be a market for cheaper ones. Production costs must be low. Lidl.co.uk had none on their website. Aldi.co.uk had 10x for £ 3.99, which is a bit more reasonable https://www.aldi.co.uk/disposable-face-covering-10-pack/p/708234411104900,
but Aldis for example are indeed few and far between.

[prémont]

Here's the mask page from a large popular UK pharmacy, so you can get an idea of costs. Presumably elsewhere they are price controlled or subsidised. But in the UK the government doesn't take it seriously enough for that. Even elderly and sick people have to pay the market rate.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/collections/face-masks?sortBy=shopify_production_products_price_asc

That's a big problem. I see that the surgical paper masks are 2½ to 5 times more expensive in UK, than in my country. Half a year ago we also paid that much, but now they can be bought from convenience stores much cheaper.

[Mandryka]

Can I ask the Europeans here to let me know if their country helps some people pay for masks, and whether the retail price is controlled?

[MusicTurner]

Not here, I think. Originally, the big supermarket chains decided to lower the prices, even covering losses, when masks became mandatory.

https://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/coop-saetter-prisen-paa-mundbind-helt-i-bund/8249367)

Buying larger quantities online might be the cheapest option in some countries, but obviously, that's not for everyone to do.

They're cheap say in Carrefour supermarkets in France (10 cent), and in Dia supermarkets in Spain (18 cent).

[prémont]

It's the standard blue paper masks you'll tend to see everywhere. Obviously you have to cover your nose completely and press it tightly against the sides of the nose, etc.

---- the main thing for me is that there can be a, not insignificant, measurable effect, if they are used properly. That's about it, as far as I'm concerned. But I really think they should mark the measured effect better on the on the paper masks that are being sold, and easily decipherable.

The blue standard paper masks I have purchased at Føtex say about 98% bacterial filtration, which means that they also filtrate virus containing droplets of saliva, but probably not aerosols.

[MusicTurner]

Good, we have a Føtex nearby.

[Iota]

As regards efficiency of masks, wearing two rather than one, also presumably offers additional protection. I started doing this just recently when going shopping, and to me it doesn't feel anymore uncomfortable than wearing one.

The idea occurred when things were getting a bit crazy here in London, with SA/Brazil variants also appearing on the horizon, and I saw a photo of Jo Biden wearing a couple as he got off a plane (yet another reason to celebrate his appearance perhaps ..). But yes, they are quite pricey.

[Mandryka]

with SA/Brazil variants also appearing on the horizon,

Too much reality there for one evening, I'm out of here.

[Mandryka]

The blue standard paper masks I have purchased at Føtex say about 98% bacterial filtration, which means that they also filtrate virus containing droplets of saliva, but probably not aerosols.

Aren't bacteria much bigger though, so viruses can penetrate through holes which are too small for bacteria?

[prémont]

Aren't bacteria much bigger though, so viruses can penetrate through holes which are too small for bacteria?

Yes, vira are smaller than bacteria, but the corona-containing droplets of saliva are larger, and this is why they to some extent are filtered by the masks.When we breathe
we will expire a mixture of droplets and aerosols .Aerosols are very small, and will generally penetrate the masks. Every time one makes an expiration movement the small aerosols will become pushed through the mask because of the expiratory air pressure. Similarly we may inhale aerosols through the mask.