Coronavirus thread

[Mandryka]

If you have, please adduce it in PM. I wouldn't like to be accused time and again of trying to derail threads. 

Sir, (a + b^n)/z = x, hence we die--reply!


https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/old-tricks-never-die

[DavidW]

what's wrong with calling Chinese a "flu" which did originate in China?

Covid is not a flu.  A flu is an influenza virus.  Covid is a coronavirus.  They're not even related.  It would be calling a person a fish.

[Florestan]

Covid is not a flu.  A flu is an influenza virus.  Covid is a coronavirus.  They're not even related.  It would be calling a person a fish.

You must have missed the quotation marks around both Spanish and flu. 

Anyway, the Spanish Flu is what we call a disease that did not originate in Spain. What then is wrong to call Chinese a disease that originated in China?

[Florestan]

Sir, (a + b^n)/z = x, hence we die--reply!


https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/old-tricks-never-die

Here is my reply: if I mathematically prove that 1 = 2, will you believe that we never die?

[Mandryka]

Another good poem -- this is probably close to my attitude

Je crains pas ça tellment la mort de mes entrailles
et la mort de mon nez et celle de mes os
Je crains pas ça tellement moi cette moustiquaille
qu'on baptisa Raymond d'un père dit Queneau

Je crains pas tellment où va la bouquinaille
les quais les cabinets la poussière et l'ennui
Je crains pas ça tellement moi qui tant écrivaille
et distille la mort en quelques poésies

Je crains pas ça tellment La nuit se coule douce
entre les bords teigneux des paupières des morts
Elle est douce la nuit caresse d'une rousse
le miel des méridiens des pôles sud et nord

Je crains pas cette nuit Je crains pas le sommeil
absolu Ça doit être aussi lourd que le plomb
aussi sec que la lave aussi noir que le ciel
aussi sourd qu'un mendiant bêlant au coin d'un pont

Je crains bien le malheur le deuil et la souffrance
et l'angoisse et la guigne et l'excès de l'absence
Je crains l'abîme obèse où gît la maladie
et le temps et l'espace et les torts de l'esprit

Mais je crains pas tellment ce lugubre imbécile
qui viendra me cueillir au bout de son curdent
lorsque vaincu j'aurai d'un œil vague et placide
cédé tout mon courage aux rongeurs du présent

Un jour je chanterai Ulysse ou bien Achille
Énée ou bien Didon Quichotte ou bien Pança
Un jour je chanterai le bonheur des tranquilles
les plaisirs de la pêche ou la paix des villas

Aujourd'hui bien lassé par l'heure qui s'enroule
tournant comme un bourrin tout autour du cadran
permettez mille excuz à ce crâne - une boule -
de susurrer plaintif la chanson du néant.

[Florestan]

Another good poem -- this is probably close to my attitude

I don't share the attitude but it's very well written.

Now, this is something I fully endorse --- if you can read Spanish you''ll know what I mean.


Canción de la vida profunda

El hombre es una cosa vana, variable y ondeante... - Montaigne

Hay días en que somos tan móviles, tan móviles,
como las leves briznas al viento y al azar.
Tal vez bajo otro cielo la Gloria nos sonríe.
La vida es clara, undívaga, y abierta como un mar.

Y hay días en que somos tan fértiles, tan fértiles,
como en abril el campo, que tiembla de pasión:
bajo el influjo próvido de espirituales lluvias,
el alma está brotando florestas de ilusión.

Y hay días en que somos tan sórdidos, tan sórdidos,
como la entraña obscura de oscuro pedernal:
la noche nos sorprende, con sus profusas lámparas,
en rútiles monedas tasando el Bien y el Mal.

Y hay días en que somos tan plácidos, tan plácidos...
(¡niñez en el crepúsculo! ¡Lagunas de zafir!)
que un verso, un trino, un monte, un pájaro que cruza,
y hasta las propias penas nos hacen sonreír.

Y hay días en que somos tan lúbricos, tan lúbricos,
que nos depara en vano su carne la mujer:
tras de ceñir un talle y acariciar un seno,
la redondez de un fruto nos vuelve a estremecer.

Y hay días en que somos tan lúgubres, tan lúgubres,
como en las noches lúgubres el llanto del pinar.
El alma gime entonces bajo el dolor del mundo,
y acaso ni Dios mismo nos puede consolar.

Mas hay también ¡Oh Tierra! un día... un día... un día...
en que levamos anclas para jamás volver...
Un día en que discurren vientos ineluctables
¡un día en que ya nadie nos puede retener!


by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_Barba-Jacob

[Florestan]

Also this:

Letanía de nuestro señor Don Quijote

Rey de los hidalgos, señor de los tristes,
que de fuerza alientas y de ensueños vistes,
coronado de áureo yelmo de ilusión;
que nadie ha podido vencer todavía,
por la adarga al brazo, toda fantasía,
y la lanza en ristre, toda corazón.

Noble peregrino de los peregrinos,
que santificaste todos los caminos
con el paso augusto de tu heroicidad,
contra las certezas, contra las conciencias
y contra las leyes y contra las ciencias,
contra la mentira, contra la verdad...

¡Caballero errante de los caballeros,
varón de varones, príncipe de fieros,
par entre los pares, maestro, salud!
¡Salud, porque juzgo que hoy muy poca tienes,
entre los aplausos o entre los desdenes,
y entre las coronas y los parabienes
y las tonterías de la multitud!

¡Tú, para quien pocas fueron las victorias
antiguas y para quien clásicas glorias
serían apenas de ley y razón,
soportas elogios, memorias, discursos,
resistes certámenes, tarjetas, concursos,
y, teniendo a Orfeo, tienes a orfeón!

Escucha, divino Rolando del sueño,
a un enamorado de tu Clavileño,
y cuyo Pegaso relincha hacia ti;
escucha los versos de estas letanías,
hechas con las cosas de todos los días
y con otras que en lo misterioso vi.

¡Ruega por nosotros, hambrientos de vida,
con el alma a tientas, con la fe perdida,
llenos de congojas y faltos de sol,
por advenedizas almas de manga ancha,
que ridiculizan el ser de la Mancha,
el ser generoso y el ser español!

¡Ruega por nosotros, que necesitamos
las mágicas rosas, los sublimes ramos
de laurel Pro nobis ora, gran señor.
¡Tiembla la floresta de laurel del mundo,
y antes que tu hermano vago, Segismundo,
el pálido Hamlet te ofrece una flor!

Ruega generoso, piadoso, orgulloso;
ruega casto, puro, celeste, animoso;
por nos intercede, suplica por nos,
pues casi ya estamos sin savia, sin brote,
sin alma, sin vida, sin luz, sin Quijote,
sin piel y sin alas, sin Sancho y sin Dios.

De tantas tristezas, de dolores tantos
de los superhombres de Nietzsche, de cantos
áfonos, recetas que firma un doctor,
de las epidemias, de horribles blasfemias
de las Academias,
¡líbranos, Señor!

De rudos malsines,
falsos paladines,
y espíritus finos y blandos y ruines,
del hampa que sacia
su canallocracia
con burlar la gloria, la vida, el honor,
del puñal con gracia,
¡líbranos, Señor!

Noble peregrino de los peregrinos,
que santificaste todos los caminos,
con el paso augusto de tu heroicidad,
contra las certezas, contra las conciencias
y contra las leyes y contra las ciencias,
contra la mentira, contra la verdad...

¡Ora por nosotros, señor de los tristes
que de fuerza alientas y de ensueños vistes,
coronado de áureo yelmo de ilusión!
¡que nadie ha podido vencer todavía,
por la adarga al brazo, toda fantasía,
y la lanza en ristre, toda corazón!

by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rub%C3%A9n_Dar%C3%ADo

[Florestan]

My last two posts dedicated to Rafael (ritter), if he ever reads this thread.

[Holden]

3) think of it now rather as an ordinary flu, not that much of a disaster any longer; psychologically we're also much more used to flus as a re-occurring phenomenon 4) moreover: epidemics tend to die out after 2-5 years, an expert says. This might be the case here too.


Those who dared to suggest that have been lambasted as ignorant and anti-science until quite recently. Today the stance is promoted by state scientific authorities. How very interesting.

I'm with you on this one. The issue will be convincing the politicians which doesn't appear to be too much of a problem for the UK. They are on the right path to treating ths as endemic. It will be a lot harder here in OZ.

What might enlighten the issue for many is how the daily statistics are published. Here in QLD the government (and therefore the media) will list all infections, even those in MIQ. This keeps the fear factor going for the general public - especially the 'sheeple'. What I want to know is how many of the infected are seriously ill and/or in hospital because it will only be a very small percentage of the total infections.

[Holden]

The Black Death occured when travel as we know it was virtually unkown. It took the lives of at least 75 mio people, some estimates even giving the frightening number of 200 mio people --- thus making Covid-19 look like a stroll in the park.

The "Spanish" Flu --- btw, if a flu that didn't originated in Spain is called Spanish, what's wrong with calling Chinese a "flu" which did originate in China? --- claimed the lives of between 17 and 100 mio lives --- thus making Covid-19 look like a stroll in the park.

I think we need a world with a lot less irrational fear of death.

The similarities between the "Spanish Flu" and Covid as pandemics are many except in one factor - the death toll. At the start, neither virus had a vaccine and if you compare figures for the first year of both (which is pre Covid vaccine) as Florestan has indicated, the flu makes Covid look like a common cold. The other interesting thing is back in 1918 - 1920, lockdowns and mask wearing where mandatory in Australia but did very little to stop the spread of the virus. As there is a common method of transmission to both I doubt the efficacy of mask wearing and isolating people in high rise buildings in congested population centres is sheer madness - but it does save money.

[MusicTurner]

I'm with you on this one. The issue will be convincing the politicians which doesn't appear to be too much of a problem for the UK. They are on the right path to treating ths as endemic. It will be a lot harder here in OZ.

What might enlighten the issue for many is how the daily statistics are published. Here in QLD the government (and therefore the media) will list all infections, even those in MIQ. This keeps the fear factor going for the general public - especially the 'sheeple'. What I want to know is how many of the infected are seriously ill and/or in hospital because it will only be a very small percentage of the total infections.

It took 20 seconds to find the relevant info  and a lot else, via a government website. It was the first hit when searching for 'queensland hospitalized corona'. So it's not that the info is being hidden, which is the impression one could get when reading your post. Actually, it's extremely detailed. However, some of your media might be ommitting or pointing to certain details, I can't tell.

There were 13 new daily cases, 144 active cases, 1909 totally, with 7 fatalities totally. 70 currently hospitalized and just 1 in ICU.

It seems that you have a lot of children (39 a few days ago at Gold Coast University hospital) hospitalized for observation with Delta, another source is telling. (9news.com.au).

The info at Covidlive.com.au confirms, that 70 is indeed the number of currently hospitalized, not just an accumulated total until now, so you seem to have a relatively high percentage of identified cases being also hospitalized. Maybe this is because of a good care system, and also a lot of the milder cases remain unreported - the state has 5.2 mio inhabitants, but 3.6 mio tests have been carried through (for example, we are 5.8 mio, but with 39 mio tests, and 322,000 cases).

This is just based on a few minutes of quick research by a foreigner, however. An important number would be the ICUs in QLD theoretically available, but I'm not going to look for it now.

[Holden]

It took 20 seconds to find the relevant info  and a lot else, via a government website. It was the first hit when searching for 'queensland hospitalized corona'. So it's not that the info is being hidden, which is the impression one could get when reading your post. Actually, it's extremely detailed. However, some of your media might be ommitting or pointing to certain details, I can't tell.

There were 13 new daily cases, 144 active cases, 1909 totally, with 7 fatalities totally. 70 currently hospitalized and just 1 in ICU.

It seems that you have a lot of children (39 a few days ago at Gold Coast University hospital) hospitalized for observation with Delta, another source is telling. (9news.com.au).

The info at Covidlive.com.au confirms, that 70 is indeed the number of currently hospitalized, not just an accumulated total until now, so you seem to have a relatively high percentage of identified cases being also hospitalized. Maybe this is because of a good care system, and also a lot of the milder cases remain unreported - the state has 5.2 mio inhabitants, but 3.6 mio tests have been carried through (for example, we are 5.8 mio, but with 39 mio tests, and 322,000 cases).

This is just based on a few minutes of quick research by a foreigner, however. An important number would be the ICUs in QLD theoretically available, but I'm not going to look for it now.

Yes we do have a great health system and yes I rely on the Qld government website for the actual facts.

However, some of your media might be ommitting or pointing to certain details,

This is the issue for me. Just now driving back from the bottle store the news on my car radio reported 13 new cases with the addendum that only one was a case of local transmission and was linked to cluster in Brisbane. In other words they've got that sorted. The radio news, because of limited time, tends to be more inclusive and less sensationalist.

The children mentioned in for observation and are possibly there because they have comorbidities but that's not stated. The number seems rather high and as it's not from the Govt website is not necessarily accurate.

A decision on our current lockdown will be made tomorrow.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

700,000 bikers expected to show up at the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota.  Rally started today.  From the tiny bit of news that I've caught via t.v., it didn't sound like many of the participants were thought to be vaccinated (saw a reporter interviewing a few of the bikers)?  That's a lot of people in one small town.  Fingers crossed that it won't be a super spreader event. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sturgis-bike-rally-revs-back-bigger-virus-variant-79272124

PD

[MusicTurner]

Ouch, that's an incredible gathering, didn't know that such huge biker meetings existed at all. Hopefully it will be less about dense crowds, than just meeting a bunch of like-minded people, in the open air. But I guess there's normally a good deal of alcohol etc. involved too, besides a macho-attitude. Authorities limiting the number of participants in a public event seems apparently out of the question.

[Florestan]

Authorities limiting the number of participants in a public event seems apparently out of the question.

Ordinary people* are just fed up with authorities telling them how they should live their lives, what they should do and what they shouldn't... because, as a darling of the auhtorities onces said, in the long run we are all dead...

*in some political and social circles aka as deplorables

[MusicTurner]

Ordinary people* are just fed up with authorities telling them how they should live their lives, what they should do and what they shouldn't... because, as a darling of the auhtorities onces said, in the long run we are all dead...

*in some political and social circles aka as deplorables

Yes, stereotypes can be very convenient.

[Florestan]

Yes, stereotypes can be very convenient.

Totally agreed.

For the record, I am not an anti-vaxer (I got my 8yo son vaccinated with all the mandatory vaccines here in Romania, plus a few optional ones) and I don't subscribe to the theory that Covid-19 is a fiction. But neither do I subscribe to the blind faith in "scientific authorities" that has been prevalent since the advent of this bloody effing pandemic. Science can be, and is, just as easily politicized as any other human endeavour --- it suffices to recall the shameful and downright criminal behaviour of the WHO, which downplayed the gravity of this pandemic for as long as it was politically convenient to do it --- until they had no other option than to admit they were wrong, literally dead wrong.

[Mandryka]

Ordinary people* are just fed up with authorities telling them how they should live their lives, what they should do and what they shouldn't... because, as a darling of the auhtorities onces said, in the long run we are all dead...

*in some political and social circles aka as deplorables

I wouldn't underestimate the sheepishness of ordinary people in Western Europe. Even in France, that country of râleurs, it always comes to nothing after they've let off a bit of steam.

IMO the people have done a tacit deal with the politicians and the forces of capital. In return for cheap commodities they'll let them do anything, anything. China holds the strings of the world.

[Herman]

It will definitely be a superspreader event, but among folks who've chosen to be there as a middle finger to prudent people.

[Karl Henning]

The "Spanish" Flu --- btw, if a flu that didn't originated in Spain is called Spanish, what's wrong with calling Chinese a "flu" which did originate in China? --- claimed the lives of between 17 and 100 mio lives --- thus making Covid-19 look like a stroll in the park.

The problem is the same in both cases: bigotry plus scapegoatism.

It's no "stroll in the park" for the Americans mourning 612K deaths.