Coronavirus thread

[Todd]

What she probably means is that Pfizer's two top owners, The Vanguard Group, Inc and BlackRock Fund Advisors are also top owners of The New York Times, CNN, Fox, ABC News, NBC News, MSNBC and Slate.

Both of these firms are among the largest shareholders of all publicly traded firms in the US because they manage the largest index funds in the world.  They may not be (are not) pursuing activist policies that seek to influence companies' policies.  In fact, doing so would violate the fund charters in most cases.  Just sayin'.

[MusicTurner]

Omicron at 1840 cases totally here in DK, 44% more than yesterday's total. Of which 74% had had 2 jabs, and 10% already had their 3rd.
The vaccines presumably tend to secure a milder case of infection. Yet 21 omicron cases in hospital, or a little above 1%. Of which 2/3 were hospitalized within 2 days of their positive test, corresponding to previous information about the disease behaving quicker generally.

Total virus case numbers going down for the last two days, maybe because of restrictions, but omicron could very well be changing it; maybe it will dominate in just 1-2 weeks.

3rd jab was moved forward, especially via decisions and official encouragements yesterday evening, and luckily, I was able to get mine even today, at noon.
1 km queue and procedures took 1.5 hours, even here in Copenhagen, which isn't bad logistically, with such a short notice.

[BasilValentine]

Btw, whether omicron variant originated in unvaccinated people is a matter of speculation; it might have or it might have not. What we do know is that in South Africa it was first detected in vaccinated people as well and that at least in the USA, The Netherlands and Romania the first cases were detected among vaccinated people.

Why on earth do you think this is relevant? What matters is that the continued spread of Covid in any population increases the likelihood of new mutations and variants. Were everyone vaccinated, this risk would be mitigated. Hence, unvaccinated populations are a danger.

[Mandryka]

21 omicron cases in hospital, or a little above 1%. Of which 2/3 were hospitalized within 2 days of their positive test, corresponding to previous information about the disease behaving quicker generally.

.

Just to get clearer about this, do you know the age of the people who are in hospital, their vaccination status (did they have three jabs?), whether they were admitted because of covid or whether they were admitted for some other reason and covid was diagnosed incidentally, and whether they are saturating from room oxygen?

Sorry about this  -- I don't know if this slightly annoying reference is well known in Denmark



(Bizarre how we've all had to become amateur epidemiologists to make sense of this covid malarkey. The newspapers here in the UK are dreadful -- basically unjustifiably frightening people because fear = readers. )

[Mandryka]

21 omicron cases in hospital, or a little above 1%.

1% of diagnosed cases. The incidence is likely to be much more than 1840 people. Are there any statistical studies estimating omicron incidence in Denmark?

[drogulus]

There also seems to be widespread acceptance of medical "scientists" and "scientific advisors" as if they were experts in fields of "hard science" such as physics or chemistry.

     Why should this round of disease require a new epistemology? The problems associated with vaccination for dangerous viruses have been around for centuries.

     Do you want to "devaccinate" your children because you don't widely accept whatever pisses you off? Will you put your kids lives on the line to demonstrate your contempt for the mainstream?

     You'll insist that biology isn't chemistry and therefore not hard science, right? The study of viruses and vaccines is wizardry. yes?

     I accept medical science as science and therefore fallible, just like other branches. Why wouldn't I? I don't need a new epistemology every time I go around the block.

[MusicTurner]

Just to get clearer about this, do you know the age of the people who are in hospital, their vaccination status (did they have three jabs?), whether they were admitted because of covid or whether they were admitted for some other reason and covid was diagnosed incidentally, and whether they are saturating from room oxygen?

Sorry about this  -- I don't know if this slightly annoying reference is well known in Denmark



(Bizarre how we've all had to become amateur epidemiologists to make sense of this covid malarkey. The newspapers here in the UK are dreadful -- basically unjustifiably frightening people because fear = readers. )

This is all very, very recent stuff, your press will probably be dealing with it too.

Their age and vaccine status isn't available in the concise, official little report I saw from today, cf. link below. Maybe they consider the age of the 21 hospitalized omicron cases as statistically too insignificant. Perhaps it also suggests a spreading in age groups, with no obvious tendencies. Recently, the focus here has been young, unvaccinated people suffering badly/fatally from Delta infections.

Good - by further study, beyond the press headlines I read initially - to see that the omicron increase was actually collected over several days, not just from yesterday.
https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-11122021-uy12

[MusicTurner]

1% of diagnosed cases. The incidence is likely to be much more than 1840 people. Are there any statistical studies estimating omicron incidence in Denmark?

Of course, but no total estimates yet. Almost 4% of the total population, 220,000, were tested just yesterday, and 5606 cases found totally. Later sewage sampling might give further information. But after all, as a layman, I'd doubt that the total number of infected is beyond 4-5x, of that number.

[Mandryka]

Of course, but no total estimates yet. Almost 4% of the total population, 220,000, were tested just yesterday, and 5606 cases found totally. Later sewage sampling might give further information. But after all, as a layman, I'd doubt that the total number of infected is beyond 4-5x, of that number.

In the UK there are people who are saying that omicron is a godsend if it is mild. Yes, it will cause major disruption to society this winter and spring - there will be a huge number of people off work and the hospitals will be at breaking point despite the mildness. I fear not only for health provision, but also for basic services like food and fuel, security and law and order. But there is real light at the end of the tunnel for the first time really because, if it is indeed mild, there will soon be herd immunity everywhere. Pandemic over.

The if it is mild bit is wishful thinking of course.

[MusicTurner]

Agree. General view here, that the 3rd jab is recommendable.

[Karl Henning]

First the Holocaust, now the Inquisition. Poster child of the immaterial and inflammatory.

[Karl Henning]

And this was a dentist, for mercy's sake: Italian who tried to evade vaccine using prosthetic arm now claims he's received his shot (as yet unconfirmed)

[steve ridgway]

     Why should this round of disease require a new epistemology? The problems associated with vaccination for dangerous viruses have been around for centuries.

     Do you want to "devaccinate" your children because you don't widely accept whatever pisses you off? Will you put your kids lives on the line to demonstrate your contempt for the mainstream?

     You'll insist that biology isn't chemistry and therefore not hard science, right? The study of viruses and vaccines is wizardry. yes?

     I accept medical science as science and therefore fallible, just like other branches. Why wouldn't I? I don't need a new epistemology every time I go around the block.

I'd happily take well proven vaccines against hideous diseases such as polio, rabies, Ebola etc. but am not convinced the risk of COVID for me is greater than the risk of the hastily produced vaccines. The basic science of biology is fine but there's a worrying layer of interpretation and marketing added before it reaches the public which one doesn't find for example in the geology of Mars.

[steve ridgway]

But there is real light at the end of the tunnel for the first time really because, if it is indeed mild, there will soon be herd immunity everywhere. Pandemic over.

The if it is mild bit is wishful thinking of course.

We're hoping that's the case but the "authorities" here don't trust those South African doctors.

[Mandryka]

We're hoping that's the case but the "authorities" here don't trust those South African doctors.

And the age and vaccination status in the UK is very different from SA -- so even if the SA medical system were giving a reliable picture, it couldn't be carried over to the UK.

I really came to this thread to express my disappointment about the vaccination passport system which is about to become law in the UK. This for a population with a very high rate of vaccination already, for vaccines which do not inhibit transmission of omicron very well as far as we know, and which do not prevent severe symptoms significantly until the third dose. And the opposition is supporting them. A diversionary tactic for the tories, a measure designed to please the groundlings so the opposition haven't got the balls to oppose  -- at best it will do no more harm than good.

[steve ridgway]

I really came to this thread to express my disappointment about the vaccination passport system which is about to become law in the UK.

Fortunately we can live without going abroad, to restaurants, concerts etc. and can walk the dogs from the house if it comes to it. Hoping to just wait it all out.

[drogulus]

I'd happily take well proven vaccines against hideous diseases such as polio, rabies, Ebola etc. but am not convinced the risk of COVID for me is greater than the risk of the hastily produced vaccines. The basic science of biology is fine but there's a worrying layer of interpretation and marketing added before it reaches the public which one doesn't find for example in the geology of Mars.

      When is this risk going to show up? A year ago the vaccines passed safety tests that didn't exist when the early polio vaccine was killing people. I got the Moderna shot in March, not because I didn't care about risk, but because I know how to weigh it. Critics of the mainstream consensus like to point out problems with news coverage largely based on other reports from different mainstream sources. That's as much a validation of how the news works as a critique of it. Why assume everyone is dumber than you? Many are, but not among the people you are talking to here.

[Que]

I'd happily take well proven vaccines against hideous diseases such as polio, rabies, Ebola etc. but am not convinced the risk of COVID for me is greater than the risk of the hastily produced vaccines. The basic science of biology is fine but there's a worrying layer of interpretation and marketing added before it reaches the public which one doesn't find for example in the geology of Mars.

Well, the test of the pudding is in the eating...

And whatever shortcuts were applied to rush the approval of the vaccines, to date 7,81 billion shots have been administered world wide. That is simple and irrefutable proof right there. Any safety scares at this stage, are irrational.

[fbjim]

      When is this risk going to show up? A year ago the vaccines passed safety tests that didn't exist when the early polio vaccine was killing people. I got the Moderna shot in March, not because I didn't care about risk, but because I know how to weigh it. Critics of the mainstream consensus like to point out problems with news coverage largely based on other reports from different mainstream sources. That's as much a validation of how the news works as a critique of it. Why assume everyone is dumber than you? Many are, but not among the people you are talking to here.

Some of the same semi-Libertarian sources were, way back when, decrying the amount of testing the vaccines had to go through to be released, calling it an example of government slowing down innovation and public safety.

Narratives do change over time.

[Karl Henning]

Without statewide mask mandate against COVID-19, health experts say Mass. will 'fight this war with one arm tied behind our backs'

By John Hilliard Globe Staff, updated December 12, 2021, 8:34 p.m.

As numbers of coronavirus cases climb in Massachusetts, a growing chorus of local, state, and federal officials is sounding the call for mask mandates in indoor public places to stanch the spread of the pandemic this winter.

The urging comes amid threats posed by the virus's Delta and Omicron variants, and as the weather grows colder, gatherings move indoors, and the holiday season approaches. The US Centers for Disease Control reported Sunday that every Massachusetts county faces high community transmission and recommends residents wear masks in indoor public settings.

Local health officials, including Julia Raifman, an assistant professor of health law, policy, and management at the Boston University School of Public Health, said Sunday that a statewide indoor mask rule would play an important role in limiting transmission of the virus.

"Massachusetts is a high-transmission setting with a COVID surge, and it is past time for Massachusetts to have an indoor mask policy to protect everyone," Raifman said in an e-mail.

State Representative William Driscoll Jr., who supports a statewide rule for face coverings, said he anticipates a discussion on changes to masking guidance, including mandates, during a legislative virtual hearing on the status of the pandemic scheduled for Thursday at 10 a.m.

Driscoll, who co-chairs the Legislature's Joint Committee on COVID-19 and Emergency Preparedness and Management, said Sunday he is already back to wearing well-fitting masks while he is in an indoor public setting and in large outdoor crowds.

Pointing to recent transmission rates and the pandemic's impact on local hospitals, Driscoll said individuals and the government must do more to slow the spread of COVID-19.

"The past two years have been exhausting and we all want to put the pandemic in the rear-view [mirror]," Driscoll said, "and in order to do that we need to have universal indoor mask wearing during surges and times of increased transmission like we are experiencing now."

Dr. Howard Koh, a former state health commissioner who is now a professor at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health urged state lawmakers to push for a universal mask mandate.

"Not doing so leaves us continuing to fight this war with one arm tied behind our backs," Koh said in an e-mail Sunday. "We must deploy all available tools to put behind us a pandemic that has gone on far too long."

More than 83 percent of the state's population — about 5.7 million people — have received at least one dose of vaccine, and the numbers of daily vaccinations are rising following a steep drop-off in the spring.

But state pandemic data show some discouraging signs: The number of new daily cases, which have been climbing in recent weeks, are now at levels comparable to those reported at this time last year.

While state data on deaths have not recorded a similar spike, the daily number has climbed since September.

On Friday, the latest data available, the state reported about 5,000 new confirmed cases, along with 27 new deaths. More than 901,000 confirmed cases have been reported since the crisis began in 2020 and 19,217 people in Massachusetts have died from the virus.

In Massachusetts hospitals, the seven-day average number of coronavirus patients passed 1,100 as of last Thursday — more than double the number from a month earlier, according to state data.

Andrew Lover, an assistant professor at UMass Amherst's School of Public Health and Health Sciences, warned Sunday that the state's post-Thanksgiving increase in cases and hospitalizations will probably continue, or even increase, through the December holidays and into January.

"This very worrisome situation, plus the unknowns around Omicron, really suggests we need to do everything we can, including masking," Lover said in an e-mail. "That's hard news to hear for all of us after so many waves, but unfortunately that's the reality."

Masking up, along with vaccinations, was highlighted as important in the fight against COVID-19 Sunday by Dr. Anthony Fauci, the White House's top medical advisor.

In an ABC interview Sunday , Fauci said the nation has the tools to protect itself and urged people who are eligible for vaccinations or boosters to get shots. He also urged people to follow public health guidance on masking up.

"You know, masking is not going to be forever, but it can get us out of the very difficult situation we're in now," he said.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former head of the US Food and Drug Administration, on "Face the Nation" Sunday also backed masking up in indoor public places. Gottlieb pointed to states like Massachusetts and New Hampshire where the health care systems are pressed due to rising cases from the dominant Delta variant.

"Mask mandates are the easiest thing we can do, the sort of collective action that puts some downward pressure on spread," Gottlieb said.

Massachusetts currently has a mask advisory in place for public indoor spaces and requires masking on public transit, and in settings like health care and congregate care facilities. The state also requires masking in public schools until Jan. 15, though schools can seek permission to lift the restriction if students and staff meet vaccination requirements.

Some communities, like Boston, Chelsea, and Brookline, have implemented masking rules for indoor public areas. And the Archdiocese of Boston said parishioners will have to wear face coverings in church beginning Saturday.

Governor Charlie Baker, who recently received his booster shot, has repeatedly urged residents to get vaccinations and boosters. Baker's office Sunday, in response to a request for comment, referred to an earlier statement by the governor.


"And as we continue to deal with new variants — in particular Omicron, which as we know is here — it's particularly important, especially important, for people to take care of themselves, and their families, and their friends, and neighbors by getting vaccinated," according to a transcript from his office.

On Sunday, Raifman said vaccines are very effective for reducing severe disease, but they are not enough to reduce surges. Several Massachusetts communities have many unvaccinated residents, leaving them highly vulnerable, she said.

She said the state has tools to control the virus but is not using them well.

"Inaction is a policy choice that makes society unpleasant for everyone and deadly for our least privileged," Raifman said.

Matthew Fox, an epidemiology and global health professor at Boston University School of Public Health, said Massachusetts is likely to avoid the worst due to the state's high vaccination rate. But he is concerned that the pandemic situation could worsen, given the holiday season.

"Individuals can wear masks on their own and this has some benefit. But unless we require this [for] everyone, the impact is limited," Fox said. "When collective action is needed, only the government can take effective action."

Looking ahead, William Hanage, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard's Chan School, said on Sunday he is concerned about the rise of the Omicron variant, which is likely to surpass the number of new Delta cases by the end of this month and produce large numbers of cases in January.

He was among health officials who urged vaccinations and booster shots. The vaccines are the best way people can protect themselves, including those who have already had COVID-19, he said.

But in addition, he said it was time for Massachusetts to impose a universal mask mandate.

"Past time," Hanage said. "Way past time."