The AFL / Aussie Rules Thread

[Papy Oli]

G'day ! 

As I discussed with Madiel last year, hidden into the French thread posts of all places, I got hooked on this sport during the end of last season's finals and it has now carried over into this season.

Watching a great game between Collingwood and Brisbane right now.

Having read the AFL page and rules on wiki has helped to some understanding and appreciation of the game but I will have some questions and comments to post soon.

I have decided to support Geelong Cats this season because :

- I like white and navy, like my French football/soccer team
- They seem to be regular enough in the top of the ladder but not winning that often, losing in last year's finals
- Hawkins is the only player I seem to have registered so far  (also Dustin Martin but he is too good and winning too much of late with Richmond, not fun to support  )
- Their song is based on Carmen's Toreador by Bizet. A French composer. Took it as a sign 

Any fans/followers of AFL here ?

PS: sign of the times, but god it also feels really good to watch a sport with a real crowd again.

[Madiel]

Goodness me, what did I start? 

How are you managing to watch it?

[Papy Oli]

Goodness me, what did I start? 

How are you managing to watch it?

I know 

BT Sport in the UK broadcast about 3 or 4 games of each round and repeats some again in the following days. so I can catch some quarters here and there or more.  Even if Geelong is not shwon, I'll still enjoy some other teams and games.

One of the other reasons I got into it last year is because I randomly came across a documentary on BBC about Adam Goodes. Even if the documentary was covering an uglier side of the sport, it triggered enough interest for me to look at the games themselves.

[Papy Oli]

Hold on a second !!

Why has no-one told me that the Brisbane Lions song was based on the French Anthem !! This changes everything   Is it too late to change allegiance again ?  Very gritty team they are, they gave Geelong a serious run for their money to the end in the last round and this time, they did manage to overtake Collingwood at the siren. Great stuff.

[Madiel]

LOL! I heard the song and immediately wondered what reaction there would be. 

Honestly I can't keep track of most of the team songs, and the whole phenomenon of team songs is really quite strange.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_Football_League_team_songs

As for the game, that's the first time this year I've actually remembered to watch something. I switched it on when I saw the score was close near the end of the 3rd quarter. The classic cliffhanger finish every player dreams about, although the reaction wasn't as wild as it would be in a match between 2 Melbourne teams.

A big part of why I love AFL is the way the momentum can shift.

[Papy Oli]

Had to look it up. It's because of...Casablanca 

https://www.lions.com.au/news/388921/origins-of-our-club-song

[Madiel]

See, you're even teaching me about Australian culture (though it depends considerably on which part of Australia you're in or from).

[Brahmsian]

What would the significance or popularity of the three "footballs" in Australia? In order of popularity?

Australian Rules
Rugby
Football (soccer)

[Madiel]

What would the significance or popularity of the three "footballs" in Australia? In order of popularity?

Australian Rules
Rugby
Football (soccer)

You have to split "Rugby" into "Rugby League" and "Rugby Union", for starters...

Culturally, Australia can be pretty sport-obsessed. The variety of football you're obsessed with has historically indicated things about your origins or class, although I'd say that's broken down a bit in recent decades.

Essentially, New South Wales and Queensland are rugby country - rugby league being more working class and rugby union more upper class (union is rather struggling with its profile at the moment). The other states traditionally focus on Aussie Rules, with Melbourne (Victoria's capital) being completely obsessed. A Melbourne newspaper isn't complete without AFL coverage across the sports pages. That is if you remember newspapers.

And AFL definitely gets the bigger crowds (in normal times without any sorts of restrictions).

As for football, well that used to basically indicate that your origins were foreign (ie European). Once upon a time most of the clubs had a strong ethnic basis. Around the 1990s there was push to make clubs focus on geography rather than ethnicity, which I think has worked over time at least in the highest level competition. There's still often more interest in what's happening in Europe than here though.

[Papy Oli]

Right, here are a few questions on things that are unclear to me so far :

Q1 - There are 18 teams in the league and they play 22 games over 23 rounds in the regular season. After a bit of looking around, it seems each team has a bye and also plays 5 teams twice over that season. How are those 5 teams determined ? Is it a random draw every year ? For instance, Geelong will play Richmond twice this year. Could that still be the case next year, or do those 5 teams rotate from a year to the next ? how important is this particular doubling of those games on the overall season ?

Q2 - Looking at the table/ladder over the last few years, there always seems to be some very drastic changes from one year to the next. e.g. one team can very well finish 16th one year, 4the next and back to the bottom again after. Why such a disparity from year to year ? Recruitment/transfers, drafts ?

Q3 - I am in general clear on the goals and behinds from foot kicks. If the ball is pushed between goal posts by hand or hits the goal post, the goal is reduced to a behind. What happens is the ball is kicked for a behind but hits one of the post on the way in ? Is the behind cancelled or remains as is ?

Q4 - I am not not clear on the referee's decision making when the ball is contested in bundles on the ground after a tackle or kerfuffle of that type ? any guidance please ? Sometimes it goes to one of the teams, sometimes it is a vertical throw by the referee. I gathered there were case of "holding the ball" (like not releasing it in the ruck in rugby union) but beyond it is very muddled.

Q5 - Likewise, I am not clear on the decision making when the ball gets out of boundary. I have not sussed out why in some instances it goes to one of the teams or it goes to the referee to throw. Any guidance please ?

Q6 - When a mark is granted to a player, why is the onus to move back on the player that did the mark and not on the "loser" of the mark, thereby losing some territory to the team that won the mark ?

Q7 - In which case is the onus to move back on the defender, i.e. I saw an example of a (50m?) penalty against a player that hadn't moved back (10 or 15m minimum ?) quickly enough but I don't remember the instance ?

Q8 - Has a referee ever knocked himself in the face after a bounce up ? have to ask

Q9 - I read it is illegal to push a player in the back. Is that only the case if that player doesn't hold the ball? If a player holds the ball, can you push him, under the assumption you are attempting a tackle or just to destabilise him? There seems to be cases where the referee let some go.

Q10 - Like in rugby, You are not allowed, rightly, to do a high tackle (above the shoulders) but it seems you are allowed to "climb" up the back and up on the shoulders of an opponent to win a mark ?

Q11 - Is there a system of yellow/red cards for violent conducts/tackles. I watched a video on YT of such violent conducts and there were mentions of reporting the player (I assume like citing the player in rugby union?). Does the player committing such infringement leave the game immediately or is that dealt with after the game?

I think that's it for now. Thank you for any clarifications coming.

I am off to the AFL glossary to sort out my bumps, my shepherds and my grubbers 

[Madiel]

Oh boy, so many questions! Some easier to answer than others but I'll do my best.

Q1 - There are 18 teams in the league and they play 22 games over 23 rounds in the regular season. After a bit of looking around, it seems each team has a bye and also plays 5 teams twice over that season. How are those 5 teams determined ? Is it a random draw every year ? For instance, Geelong will play Richmond twice this year. Could that still be the case next year, or do those 5 teams rotate from a year to the next ? how important is this particular doubling of those games on the overall season ?

This has been a problem since the league grew too big for everyone to play twice, yes. It's not fully random, I know that they split the teams into 'top 6', 'middle 6' and 'bottom 6' from the results in the previous year, and somehow there are rules to make sure that the 5 teams are drawn fairly evenly from those groups. But I still don't know exactly how it works, and I suspect it's not completely random because there are some rivalries that the AFL really likes to have 2 games in a year for.

I know that each year there will be articles assessing who got a good or bad draw. Though that might be partly because, say, a team that was 'middle 6' is actually considered to be improving and likely to do better the following year.

Q2 - Looking at the table/ladder over the last few years, there always seems to be some very drastic changes from one year to the next. e.g. one team can very well finish 16th one year, 4the next and back to the bottom again after. Why such a disparity from year to year ? Recruitment/transfers, drafts ?

Yes to both. Australian competitions (not just AFL) have policies like drafts and salary caps that are very much designed to prevent what happens in European football competitions, where the same wealthy clubs constantly take all the best players. Drafts are a big thing in the AFL, with the clubs doing a lot of negotiation to swap draft picks as part of deals to transfer players. It's not that common to see such a big change in a single year, but I know that has happened a little bit recently. Overall the competition is kept close by these systems, which is a good thing in my view.

Q3 - I am in general clear on the goals and behinds from foot kicks. If the ball is pushed between goal posts by hand or hits the goal post, the goal is reduced to a behind. What happens is the ball is kicked for a behind but hits one of the post on the way in ? Is the behind cancelled or remains as is ?

If the ball hits the outer posts, it's out of bounds, a complete miss. So same principle of 'reducing' really.

Q4 - I am not not clear on the referee's decision making when the ball is contested in bundles on the ground after a tackle or kerfuffle of that type ? any guidance please ? Sometimes it goes to one of the teams, sometimes it is a vertical throw by the referee. I gathered there were case of "holding the ball" (like not releasing it in the ruck in rugby union) but beyond it is very muddled.

Yes, 'holding the ball' means you had a chance to release it and didn't. You must try to release it when tackled. However, the referee will do a throw if the person with the ball never got a decent chance to release it, or if no particular player had control of the ball and it's not coming out of the mass of players.

Q5 - Likewise, I am not clear on the decision making when the ball gets out of boundary. I have not sussed out why in some instances it goes to one of the teams or it goes to the referee to throw. Any guidance please ?

You're not allowed to deliberately put the ball out of bounds (rather different to most sports!). Whereas if it goes out of bounds just because it's bouncing all over the place, the referee throws it in. It can be a matter of considerable debate as to whether someone was deliberately putting the ball out or it just 'happened' to go out while they were trying to do something else. Defenders in particular are likely to develop skills in the art of getting the ball to go out without making it obvious that's what they wanted.

[Madiel]

Part 2..

Q6 - When a mark is granted to a player, why is the onus to move back on the player that did the mark and not on the "loser" of the mark, thereby losing some territory to the team that won the mark ?

I really don't know. It's just always been that way. The defender gets to stand on the spot.

Q7 - In which case is the onus to move back on the defender, i.e. I saw an example of a (50m?) penalty against a player that hadn't moved back (10 or 15m minimum ?) quickly enough but I don't remember the instance ?

If the defender runs forward to the spot or fails to go back to the right spot then yes, they'll be penalised. Referees can often be heard yelling at players to get back to what the referee considers the right spot, and failing to obey is pretty much guaranteed to lead to a 50m penalty. Fun fact: yesrs ago the penalty used to only be 15 metres. It sure made a difference when it became 50.

Q8 - Has a referee ever knocked himself in the face after a bounce up ? have to ask

Oh yes. 

Q9 - I read it is illegal to push a player in the back. Is that only the case if that player doesn't hold the ball? If a player holds the ball, can you push him, under the assumption you are attempting a tackle or just to destabilise him? There seems to be cases where the referee let some go.

It's always illegal, but again it's one of those things where you can have considerable debate about whether it was a proper tackle or a push in the back.

Q10 - Like in rugby, You are not allowed, rightly, to do a high tackle (above the shoulders) but it seems you are allowed to "climb" up the back and up on the shoulders of an opponent to win a mark ?

Yes, but I think you'll find most of that climbing is a leap and then using your legs, not your arms.

Q11 - Is there a system of yellow/red cards for violent conducts/tackles. I watched a video on YT of such violent conducts and there were mentions of reporting the player (I assume like citing the player in rugby union?). Does the player committing such infringement leave the game immediately or is that dealt with after the game?

No cards. Only being placed on report which is dealt with after the game, and the tribunal might ban the player for any number of games (the record is 9 games). For low level offences it might only be a warning that will affect the chances of being banned on the next offence. I often think it's a good thing because it means that a referee can't send someone off by mistake. Occasionally you will see situations where a player has done something really bad and you wish they could be sent off, or where winning that game is more important than missing the next one. But not very often.

[Madiel]

PS Regarding the closeness of the competition, I don't know if we will ever see a season as good as 2016. Just take a look at the ladder from the end of the year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFL_season

The top 7 teams finished within 2 wins of each other.

[Papy Oli]

Oh boy, so many questions! Some easier to answer than others but I'll do my best.

Thank you very much for taking the time, much appreciated. It puts a bit more structure to it all. I am sure Q4 & Q5 will make more sense as along the way as I watch more games. I start to really appreciate the tactical element & movement to it, players finding or creating the space, getting away from their marking opponent. I was wondering often why they don't kick to goals from the 50m line or thereabouts when they have some space to do so, but finding the gaps or creating the marks for a better position inside the 50m line make sense.

I just found out that all the matches' full replays (all rounds) are actually put up on the AFL official website and I can access them! I can watch them on catch up there the next day if I don't want to risk waking up my partner at 6am to watch Geelong live I for sure will have to catch up today's Swans/Tigers game when it is put up. That sounded like a cracker. AFL.TV also works for me !

I need to find a video of Q8 now too 

PS Regarding the closeness of the competition, I don't know if we will ever see a season as good as 2016. Just take a look at the ladder from the end of the year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFL_season

The top 7 teams finished within 2 wins of each other.

Looked like a really exciting one. the AFL website also has a page with the injury list. Given the number per clubs, that must explain such topsy-turvy results throughout the season.

[Madiel]

GWS (Greater Western Sydney) play a few games a year in Canberra. The first one for this year is on right now.

Still watching on television instead...

[Madiel]

I just realised I should add to my answer about the ball going out of bounds.

If you kick it out on the full (no bounce), then it automatically goes to the other team. It doesn't matter if it was deliberate or not.

[Papy Oli]

GWS (Greater Western Sydney) play a few games a year in Canberra. The first one for this year is on right now.

Still watching on television instead...

Is that the team you "barrack" for ? (I knew that glossary would be handy at some point  )

I just realised I should add to my answer about the ball going out of bounds.

If you kick it out on the full (no bounce), then it automatically goes to the other team. It doesn't matter if it was deliberate or not.

noted, thank you.

[Madiel]

Is that the team you "barrack" for ? (I knew that glossary would be handy at some point  )

He's got the lingo (language) already.

Actually no. I don't really go for a specific team these days. Just whoever's play I enjoy and/or whoever has the sexiest players.

I know in theory I'm meant to support GWS but I really cannot stand one of their star players.

[Papy Oli]

He's got the lingo (language) already.

Actually no. I don't really go for a specific team these days. Just whoever's play I enjoy and/or whoever has the sexiest players.

I know in theory I'm meant to support GWS but I really cannot stand one of their star players.

All reasons are valid 

I caught the last 10 minutes live of Cats v Hawks Q4 yesterday morning UK time. That was another one where Geelong hung in there just about, it was tense and I really got into it. Must admit, I did have a supporter's moment when Clark scored this one.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/578672/jordan-clark-turns-into-usain-bolt-in-stunning-cat-surge?videoId=578672&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1617609206001

And then Hawthorn scored straight afterwards with a round the corner kick, just to keep "us" on our toes. I think I am converted now and sticking with the Cats.

I re-watched the full game on the AFL replay today. Great game throughout and I was still nervous throughout Q4 even though I knew the result  I did pay closer attention to the contests and the referees decisions during the game. Still some grey areas here and there but in the main, the explanations you provided were of great help, thank you again.

Oh and I found the AFL StatsPro page on the AFL site. Lots of stats everywhere !!!!!!  Happy as a pig in the proverbial...

[Madiel]

That was a pretty good goal!