To boldly go ... (Star Trek)

[Szykneij]

I enjoyed watching the original "Star Trek" during my junior high school years and "The Next Generation" when new in the late 80s and early 90s, but I'm finding I appreciate them even more now. Thanks to Roku's dedicated Star Trek channel, one or the other runs continuously day and night and I find myself ending my clicking there more often than not.

[DavidW]

I enjoyed watching the original "Star Trek" during my junior high school years and "The Next Generation" when new in the late 80s and early 90s, but I'm finding I appreciate them even more now. Thanks to Roku's dedicated Star Trek channel, one or the other runs continuously day and night and I find myself ending my clicking there more often than not.

I kind of like watching "live TV" on Prime. I tuned into the Doctor Who channel and the fourth doctor was aboard an ark with Sarah Jane accidentally put into hibernation! Never knew what happened, next time I tuned in it was the third doctor contending with the Master and the Autons. The man certainly loves his disguises. I've watched local news from New York City, a random episode of Buffy, and documentaries on sea life. That was the one thing about streaming is the lack of spontaneity that you had back in the day with channel surfing.

[Karl Henning]

I enjoyed watching the original "Star Trek" during my junior high school years and "The Next Generation" when new in the late 80s and early 90s, but I'm finding I appreciate them even more now. Thanks to Roku's dedicated Star Trek channel, one or the other runs continuously day and night and I find myself ending my clicking there more often than not.

Love those two series entirely!

[LKB]

TOS for Nimoy's Spock and his interactions with Bones, music, consistently decent writing ( at least in seasons 1 & 2 ) and occasionally strong social commentary.

TNG for Picard, the Borg, Worf, The Inner Light, Guinan ( sp? ) and Q!

[Szykneij]

... and occasionally strong social commentary.

Yes, something I didn't fully grasp at the time but now understand and appreciate.

[LKB]

Another twofer, as this will be in the Reaction thread as well:

[DavidW]

I've been watching this piecemeal. It is a good but exhaustively long critique of Picard. If you like the show, don't watch it!

[relm1]

I've been watching this piecemeal. It is a good but exhaustively long critique of Picard. If you like the show, don't watch it!

I don't think I saw the first two seasons but enjoyed the nostalgic third season quite a bit.  Excellent music too!  But I generally prefer Strange New Worlds for my modern trek money.

[Elgarian Redux]

Love those two series entirely!

Indeed; and we are currently involved in re-running through TNG, and are in the middle of season 2.

It wasn't always thus. We were very suspicious of TNG when it first appeared, accusing it of being 'Neighbours, in space'. I still would edit out quite a few episodes on those grounds, but overall we've just become so fond of the scenario and the characters that the occasionally creepy sentimentalism doesn't bother us as much.

So: Kirk or Picard? (which is the question posed in Big Bang Theory)? For me, it's probably Picard, if we're talking about the series. But if we move on to the movies, then Kirk, every time.

[LKB]

Indeed; and we are currently involved in re-running through TNG, and are in the middle of season 2.

It wasn't always thus. We were very suspicious of TNG when it first appeared, accusing it of being 'Neighbours, in space'. I still would edit out quite a few episodes on those grounds, but overall we've just become so fond of the scenario and the characters that the occasionally creepy sentimentalism doesn't bother us as much.

So: Kirk or Picard? (which is the question posed in Big Bang Theory)? For me, it's probably Picard, if we're talking about the series. But if we move on to the movies, then Kirk, every time.

I can see the logic in your preference. I myself would put it thus:

Picard is the more impressive captain, always displaying whatever characteristics are required to resolve the weekly dilemma in the course of the TNG series ( in more practical terms, Sir Patrick is the superior actor ).

Kirk is the more inspiring and relatable captain. Probably fun to hang out with, but more volatile as well.

Fortunately, there's enough room in the Universe for both ( along with Janeway, Cisco, Pike et. al. ).

[foxandpeng]

Without wishing to be become a postmodern or identitarian stooge, I think I am leaning toward Discovery more and more. The Klingon reinvention was definitely more interestingly and tangibly alien. The Vulcan and Romulan storyline promised greater potential than they have exploited so far.

I had higher hopes for Picard's reimagining of the Borg and Changeling arc than actually emerged, but felt there were huge possibilities there that ultimately fell very flat.

[DavidW]

I had higher hopes for Picard's reimagining of the Borg and Changeling arc than actually emerged, but felt there were huge possibilities there that ultimately fell very flat.

Yeah, it was poorly written. The Borg were the big bad IN ALL THREE SEASONS. The changelings would never work with them, and their plot thread had potential but wasn't fully realized. And it is just so, so, so tired.

They wanted to fight the Borg in spectacular action. You know, TNG itself had smarter ideas. They knew not to milk it like that. Instead, they had an episode of a Borg leaving the collective and coming to terms with such a dramatically different life. There was another one where Locutus showed the effects of weaponizing emotions and xenophobia—smarter ideas than what Picard had.

But it is the proper sendoff for TNG because that last movie was a stinker. So I still give it a thumbs up even though it wasn't a good show and had poor writing. And heck, it was still quite entertaining.

[DavidW]

So: Kirk or Picard? (which is the question posed in Big Bang Theory)? For me, it's probably Picard, if we're talking about the series. But if we move on to the movies, then Kirk, every time.

I will go with Kirk. And I don't even need to consider the movies. I think people only vaguely remember the show and think that he is just punching his way through conflict... but that is not true! He uses his wits and diplomacy most of the time. Kirk knows when to listen to Spock and McCoy, but he also knows when to crack the whip.

What Picard is good at is delegating. He trusts his senior staff, he listens to them and he usually lets them do the heavy lifting. That is a good thing and a bad thing. It demonstrates a great quality of leadership, but it also means that Kirk gets to shine in nearly every episode and Picard doesn't. And we rarely see Picard make the intuitive leaps that Kirk does. And I'm sure that he is just as fine of a captain, but it is what it is.

[DavidW]

Without wishing to be become a postmodern or identitarian stooge, I think I am leaning toward Discovery more and more. The Klingon reinvention was definitely more interestingly and tangibly alien. The Vulcan and Romulan storyline promised greater potential than they have exploited so far.

I also like Discovery more. New crew, new stories, adapted for a new audience. Even though they brought back Spock in S2 overall the whole show is trying to turn the page, and it is not just nostalgia bait.

[LKB]

Yeah, it was poorly written. The Borg were the big bad IN ALL THREE SEASONS. The changelings would never work with them, and their plot thread had potential but wasn't fully realized. And it is just so, so, so tired.

They wanted to fight the Borg in spectacular action. You know, TNG itself had smarter ideas. They knew not to milk it like that. Instead, they had an episode of a Borg leaving the collective and coming to terms with such a dramatically different life. There was another one where Locutus showed the effects of weaponizing emotions and xenophobia—smarter ideas than what Picard had.

But it is the proper sendoff for TNG because that last movie was a stinker. So I still give it a thumbs up even though it wasn't a good show and had poor writing. And heck, it was still quite entertaining.

I watched the first season of Picard, and hated the final episode enough to ignore the series' last two seasons, except for the Resurrection( ) of the Enterprise D with most of the old crew ( which was sappy, but agreeably so ).

[Elgarian Redux]

I will go with Kirk. And I don't even need to consider the movies. I think people only vaguely remember the show and think that he is just punching his way through conflict... but that is not true! He uses his wits and diplomacy most of the time. Kirk knows when to listen to Spock and McCoy, but he also knows when to crack the whip.

What Picard is good at is delegating. He trusts his senior staff, he listens to them and he usually lets them do the heavy lifting. That is a good thing and a bad thing. It demonstrates a great quality of leadership, but it also means that Kirk gets to shine in nearly every episode and Picard doesn't. And we rarely see Picard make the intuitive leaps that Kirk does. And I'm sure that he is just as fine of a captain, but it is what it is.

I can go along very happily with all that. My stated preference is a gut reaction, rather than the outcome of analysis.

If we were talking about teams, then the trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy is unbeatable. But I confess there are aspects of Kirk that make me squirm - that grotesque smile he adopts when talking to attractive women, for instance. Yikes.

Overall, original Trek has a sort of hallowed air about it just because I've known it so long. TNG started on the wrong foot initially, but I warmed to it over the years until it became a Treasure. DS9 is too long and too political for my liking, and it has The Grand Nagus in it. Oh crikey, no. But I still have fond memories of it, even so. Voyager very up and down - for me, the 4th of these 4, and I might undergo a further iteration at some point.

For the rest: Enterprise suffered from the fact that back in those early Trek days they didn't have very good light bulbs, so it was always dark and dismal in the ship. After that I lost interest completely, despite an enthusiastic friend who persuaded me to watch bits of Discovery and Picard. I tried, but they're not for me.

[relm1]

I think of Kirk as an old fashion character.  Roguish, tough, charming, charismatic, passionate, heroic but also can be conflicted at times, vulnerable, etc.  He clearly has weaknesses that are evident in TOS but expanded on more in the feature films (bigotry, vengeance, etc.).

I think of Pickard as a more refined character.  Similarly, the feature films explore his arch in greater depth but from the tv show, I always felt Pickard was more by the book whereas Kirk was more by the heart.  They both relied on their number 2 (and 3) for counsel but made the difficult decisions themselves and took responsibility for how that might turn out.  One thing I always loved about Kirk was how selflessly he would sacrifice himself for his crew or his friends.  I never really saw that in Pickard. 

Who do you prefer more: Spock or Data?

[Szykneij]

But I confess there are aspects of Kirk that make me squirm - that grotesque smile he adopts when talking to attractive women, for instance. Yikes.

Yes, that was a sign of the times.

Off topic a bit, but Richard Dawson (who played the character of Newkirk on Hogan's Heroes) hosted the game show Family Feud which aired a few years after Star Trek. If anyone behaved the way he did now, they might be brought up on sexual harrasment charges. His behavior on Match Game was pretty creepy, too. Star Trek and other shows of that era reflect the norm of the day.

[Karl Henning]

I But I confess there are aspects of Kirk that make me squirm - that grotesque smile he adopts when talking to attractive women, for instance. Yikes.

Yes, that was a sign of the times.

Keep in mind that the network passed on the first pilot ("The Cage") because it was "too cerebral."

[Elgarian Redux]

Who do you prefer more: Spock or Data?

I can't say. Spock was never quite the fount of logic that he was supposed to be, but since he was half-human we can understand that. Data is a pretty good shot at portraying an android, and there are episodes that remind us that he isn't as human as he sometimes seems.

I don't want to choose between them. They're both excellent characters.