Riches Within

Owen David · October 17, 2023, 03:46:52 PM

I've been working on this off and on for the last few months and I think it's now presentable...mostly E major with a brief digression into other keys...

https://owendavidmusic.org/2023/10/17/riches-within/

lunar22 · October 18, 2023, 04:22:33 AM

although it's not that well played (not enough dynamic contrast for instance), I have to admit being rather charmed by this in a way I haven't so much been with other of your piano works, particularly when it goes into sextuplets later on. It may not be very individual or original in its language but I guess it doesn't have to be. There's no shortage of "original" music these days which, if not outright bad is at least totally baffling to most listeners.

Owen David · October 23, 2023, 04:27:52 PM

Well there's being damned by faint praise... and there's being insulted to your face. Which would you choose? lol

Your remarks ("not that well played") suggest you thought it was a performed piece (which I take as a compliment) - but it's actually a MuseScore-generated audio. You can only do so much in terms of dynamic contrast in MuseScore (unless you want to spend a lifetime - as opposed to 10 hours or more - fiddling with tempos, reverb, con pedale and dynamics). I do hope to do some self-performed recordings before too long. I don't have access to a grand piano for performing at the moment but hope to resolve that issue soon (using a rehearsal room for recording).

Thanks for your comment!

Quote from: lunar22 on October 18, 2023, 04:22:33 AMalthough it's not that well played (not enough dynamic contrast for instance), I have to admit being rather charmed by this in a way I haven't so much been with other of your piano works, particularly when it goes into sextuplets later on. It may not be very individual or original in its language but I guess it doesn't have to be. There's no shortage of "original" music these days which, if not outright bad is at least totally baffling to most listeners.

DavidW · October 23, 2023, 06:08:41 PM

Well I liked it fine. Ignore lunar, they're just being rude.

Thanks for sharing.

lunar22 · October 23, 2023, 10:58:56 PM

I'm not quite sure what was supposed to be rude (a slight dig at some forms of modern music which Owen David, like myself, obviously doesn't try to follow)-- certainly that was not my intention. As I said, I liked this piece as well and I don't think it's out of place to make a comment on the rendering which to my ears could have been less mechanical. Works which leave me cold (the vast majority), I don't normally bother commenting on even if they may be technically accomplished.

lunar22 · October 24, 2023, 05:40:48 AM

Quote from: Owen David on October 23, 2023, 04:27:52 PMWell there's being damned by faint praise... and there's being insulted to your face. Which would you choose? lol

Your remarks ("not that well played") suggest you thought it was a performed piece (which I take as a compliment) - but it's actually a MuseScore-generated audio. You can only do so much in terms of dynamic contrast in MuseScore (unless you want to spend a lifetime - as opposed to 10 hours or more - fiddling with tempos, reverb, con pedale and dynamics). I do hope to do some self-performed recordings before too long. I don't have access to a grand piano for performing at the moment but hope to resolve that issue soon (using a rehearsal room for recording).

Thanks for your comment!

no -- sorry for the ambiguity --- I had indeed assumed that this was a virtual performance and particularly for that reason it shouldn't be too hard to balance the voicing dynamics better. Certainly in Dorico you could without that much effort and probably it's the same in MuseScore though I don't know it at all well and perhaps it's less straightforward. If you're a better pianist than me (not hard), I expect you could do better in a real performance.

Anyway, as I said, I did like this piece and will look out for more in the future even if, inevitably, I'll like some more than others (which is anyway really just personal taste which you can take or leave -- I only comment on technical specifics of a piece if I've got some idea of what I'm talking about and specific feedback has been requested)

krummholz · October 24, 2023, 08:22:24 AM

I have not had a chance to listen to Owen David's piece, but just thought I'd comment on MuseScore - I abandoned it long ago because of the mechanical quality of the renderings it produced. Even in solo piano works, which is the setting where it was the least bad (but still not good). Assuming they haven't improved it since ~3 years ago of course.

(But it sounds as if they probably haven't.)

MuseScore is just not in the same league as commercial products like Dorico, Sibelius, or Finale.

If the composer can't afford a commercial notation software, then there is little point in criticising the rendering.

lunar22 · October 24, 2023, 12:36:09 PM

I do know that the new Muse sounds in MuseScore v4 are a considerable improvement on what went before. No resemblance at all to previous versions. However, it may be that they are no easier to edit in which case there is perhaps little point in commenting on the rendering -- bit of a shame really.

Owen David · October 24, 2023, 05:22:19 PM

Glad you liked it!

Quote from: DavidW on October 23, 2023, 06:08:41 PMWell I liked it fine. Ignore lunar, they're just being rude.

Thanks for sharing.

Owen David · October 24, 2023, 05:24:04 PM

No probs, Lunar - I like robust debate and obviously robust debate goes both ways.

Quote from: lunar22 on October 23, 2023, 10:58:56 PMI'm not quite sure what was supposed to be rude (a slight dig at some forms of modern music which Owen David, like myself, obviously doesn't try to follow)-- certainly that was not my intention. As I said, I liked this piece as well and I don't think it's out of place to make a comment on the rendering which to my ears could have been less mechanical. Works which leave me cold (the vast majority), I don't normally bother commenting on even if they may be technically accomplished.

Owen David · October 24, 2023, 05:31:02 PM

Well maybe it's just me but I find the lower volume dynamics on the grand piano voice in MuseScore unconvincing which is why I tend to end up in the mf to ff range. You certainly can't do a real time mix in MuseScore that then is stored for playback.

MuseScore is of course free and it has many pluses as well. I wasn't being a cheapskate when I went with MuseScore to begin with - it's just if you buy into something then you are kind of tied to it. But I may investigate other programmes now I have got the idea of online scoring.

Quote from: lunar22 on October 24, 2023, 05:40:48 AMno -- sorry for the ambiguity --- I had indeed assumed that this was a virtual performance and particularly for that reason it shouldn't be too hard to balance the voicing dynamics better. Certainly in Dorico you could without that much effort and probably it's the same in MuseScore though I don't know it at all well and perhaps it's less straightforward. If you're a better pianist than me (not hard), I expect you could do better in a real performance.

Anyway, as I said, I did like this piece and will look out for more in the future even if, inevitably, I'll like some more than others (which is anyway really just personal taste which you can take or leave -- I only comment on technical specifics of a piece if I've got some idea of what I'm talking about and specific feedback has been requested)

Owen David · October 24, 2023, 05:38:14 PM

I could afford a commercial product. However I was starting from where I was. I had never really scored my work before - except for a few written-out manuscript efforts. So I wasn't really sure what to expect. I didn't want to get tied into a commercial product that then wiped my output if I didn't pay up the annual subscription. I had read that Sibelius was counter-intuitive in many respects and I didn't like the look of it from You Tube videos. So I thought I would give MuseScore a go. I like "intuitive". MuseScore certainly exceeded my expectations.

I only started using MuseScore at the beginning of the year so I think I am now at the point where I might migrate elsewhere if I can be persuaded it allows you that proper mix-down ability.

Quote from: krummholz on October 24, 2023, 08:22:24 AMI have not had a chance to listen to Owen David's piece, but just thought I'd comment on MuseScore - I abandoned it long ago because of the mechanical quality of the renderings it produced. Even in solo piano works, which is the setting where it was the least bad (but still not good). Assuming they haven't improved it since ~3 years ago of course.

(But it sounds as if they probably haven't.)

MuseScore is just not in the same league as commercial products like Dorico, Sibelius, or Finale.

If the composer can't afford a commercial notation software, then there is little point in criticising the rendering.

lunar22 · October 24, 2023, 11:09:30 PM

Dorico is the newest and most modern of the "big three" notation packages. Because it's produced by Steinberg of Cubase fame, the audio technology and a number of DAW-like features have been included including a piano-roll style key editor where you can easily manipulate playback. If you like what you see but are not going to write for full orchestra, it may well be that the Elements version would suffice. At any rate, trials are available. And Dorico is not subscription based which for many is a plus.

Owen David · October 25, 2023, 04:52:03 PM

Thanks for the advice. I will explore further.

Quote from: lunar22 on October 24, 2023, 11:09:30 PMDorico is the newest and most modern of the "big three" notation packages. Because it's produced by Steinberg of Cubase fame, the audio technology and a number of DAW-like features have been included including a piano-roll style key editor where you can easily manipulate playback. If you like what you see but are not going to write for full orchestra, it may well be that the Elements version would suffice. At any rate, trials are available. And Dorico is not subscription based which for many is a plus.