My name is Ian…

[George]

I actually haven't heard the remix, only the original!

[Cato]

Hi Leo,

Thank you!

...To be perfectly honest I can't even explain to myself why I don't get along with vocals and classic (again using the term very loosely) music. In the pieces you posted for example, and with all due respect to yourself and Karl, the voice and music seem to clash rather than live in harmony. I hear a constant fight between them in my head. I hope that makes sense and it's just my own opinion for what it's worth, I would not presume to make an artistic judgement on your work. I understand what you mean about expressing emotions and therein may be my problem... more often than not I don't perceive these emotions. ...

 ...I think that somewhere along the line something as trivial as the mix or recording quality plays a role.


Thank you, and others, for sharing your views and experiences on the subject. To learn about music from knowledgeable people and broaden my horizons is why I joined the forum and we are off to a great start! 

Thank you for the nice reply!

Depending on many factors, the composer may in fact want a division between the text and the music: some composers do not treat the voice as another instrument in an ensemble, but rather see their music as an "unconscious mind" commenting on the text, rather than complementing it.

Your Gesualdo and Vaughn Williams examples are good ones of the "meshing."

Here is a link to my cantata for 9-voices Exaudi me: the "performance" is by a computer (MIDI), but without words, you can perhaps sense how I treated the voices as instruments.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nz8wxfjl9m2xksfu3ywn2/Exaudi-Me.mp3?rlkey=nll0vvp19cks0dovd72k7urag&dl=0


If you can read music, here is the score, edited by Karl Henning: 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yzdan2ds7ub86q6b9fqhv/Schulte-Exaudi-Me-with-keybd.pdf?rlkey=adhkiqpcfurrq9pkxukgstjag&dl=0

[DavidW]

Let us also not forget that counterpoint is not the opposite of harmony, but instead a great ingredient for fine music.  The best vocal music and chamber music sounds like a dialogue instead of just people singing or playing in unison.

[Ian]

Let us also not forget that counterpoint is not the opposite of harmony, but instead a great ingredient for fine music.  The best vocal music and chamber music sounds like a dialogue instead of just people singing or playing in unison.

Indeed. And listening to a conversation can be a soothing experience. Unlike hearing a loud disagreement which is how I often perceive vocals in classical music.

[Ian]

Depending on many factors, the composer may in fact want a division between the text and the music: some composers do not treat the voice as another instrument in an ensemble, but rather see their music as an "unconscious mind" commenting on the text, rather than complementing it.

I understand that and it's an very interesting point. But what if my own mind is already creating its own commentary on the text. In this case you can easily imagine the cacophony which could occur in my mind. I'm not saying it's the case by again it's a very good and interesting point you have brought up and I'll try to listen next time in a more meditative way. Trying to switch off my own thoughts may enhance the experience.

[Cato]

Let us also not forget that counterpoint is not the opposite of harmony, but instead a great ingredient for fine music.  The best vocal music and chamber music sounds like a dialogue instead of just people singing or playing in unison.

You remind me of something said by Mahler: "There should be no harmony, only counterpoint."  😇

I understand that and it's a very interesting point. But what if my own mind is already creating its own commentary on the text. In this case you can easily imagine the cacophony which could occur in my mind. I'm not saying it's the case by again it's a very good and interesting point you have brought up and I'll try to listen next time in a more meditative way. Trying to switch off my own thoughts may enhance the experience.

Thank you: yes, everyone listens to music in their own way.  Neutrality will be difficult quite often: Schubert's song called e.g. The Linden Tree - because of its name - will conjure forth certain ideas in the listener's mind before any notes are sounded.

Or...maybe not!       The title may mean nothing to some people.  I can guarantee that certain people I know would have no preconceived notions at all about such a song! 

Certainly Schubert's song called The Elf King may not match notions derived from the title, e.g. of fairies and happy little humanoids dancing with flowers or sitting on toadstools, when the opening notes are heard!

So, neutrality may be difficult, but it is not impossible, especially with music simply titled by its form (Sonata, Symphony, et al.)

For the songs above:

[DavidW]

Trying to switch off my own thoughts may enhance the experience.

Wine can do that!

[Ian]

Wine can do that!

So that's where I've been going wrong! 

[Karl Henning]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gardiner insisted upon no vibrato, and then Hurwitz got an ulcer!

Oh, the heart bleeds!

[Ian]

Do I detect a little anti-Hurwitz sentiment here? He may be a bit quirky at times but as a reletive newcomer to classical music I find he is a very useful source of information.
The only thing that I'm not too keen on is when he seems to deliberately mispronounce names and says who cares about the correct pronunciation... well the people who carry those names care for a start. I find it disrespectful. But we all have our faults.

[Karl Henning]

Do I detect a little anti-Hurwitz sentiment here? He may be a bit quirky at times but as a reletive newcomer to classical music I find he is a very useful source of information.

Anything you find of value: hit it.

[vandermolen]

I always liked this one:

[Szykneij]

A late welcome to GMG, Ian. You have the perfect avatar for a Holstaholic! Many low string bows shiver in fear when they see it.