Virginia Tech Massacre

[Harvested Sorrow]

No, it's never that simple. Read his plays that he wrote in his creative writing class. My bet is he was a kid who was traumatized by a move to a new culture at a young age, then had to endure sexual abuse as a child (see the play about Richard McBeef). In addition, I suspect he had a lot of pressure from home to succeed in school, which were high expectations he didn't quite fulfill (his sister went to an ivy (Princeton), he didn't). That coupled with a general youth culture that glorifies "winners" and looks down upon "losers" probably contributed to a combination of lethally low self-esteem and inadequate socialization which meant he had nobody he trusted and opened up to, so all of this was just bottled up until it exploded one day.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head.  Also, I'm quite sure that he knew the quality of his writing wasn't that great which left him very, very frustrated with himself.  For some reason he strikes me as having been the sort of mediocrity who was unfortunately (for himself) intelligent enough to realize that he was just that.

[MishaK]

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head.  Also, I'm quite sure that he knew the quality of his writing wasn't that great which left him very, very frustrated with himself.  For some reason he strikes me as having been the sort of mediocrity who was unfortunately (for himself) intelligent enough to realize that he was just that.

But finish the last sentence: ...and had nothing or nobody else who would in his eyes have made life worth living. Meanwhile his peers (in his eyes undeservedly) seemed to have everything. Which, had he been able to open up to them and make friends, he would have seen is not true either, since everyone to some degree has self-doubts and unfulfilled dreams etc.

[carlos]

To me is really very simple: the majority of north-americans
worship guns and enjoy violence immensely. Any intent to
ban guns has failed and is going to fail in the future. You can't
change a people's mentality.

[Don]

To me is really very simple: the majority of north-americans
worship guns and enjoy violence immensely. Any intent to
ban guns has failed and is going to fail in the future. You can't
change a people's mentality.

That's nonsense.  The majority of north-americans don't own guns or enjoy violence.  Where have you been living?

[Mozart]

Kind of scarry no? You can go anywhere and some psycho nutjob can just start shooting people.

[Don]

Funny thing is that a MSN feature reported that Blacksburg is the 4th best city in the United States to retire early; turns out it's the best city to die early.

[Mozart]

Funny thing is that a MSN feature reported that Blacksburg is the 4th best city in the United States to retire early; turns out it's the best city to die early.

Everyone knows bullets travel right through old people.

[Harvested Sorrow]

Yes, you're probably right: there are so many fire arms around in the US (estimated to be more than the human population) that the situation is practicably irreversible. But I don't think it's anything to gloat over.

Q

Actually, that wasn't what I meant.

I simply don't like the tunnel vision used when producing these stats.  If the gun crime goes down quite a bit but there's say....a 50% increase overall (just throwing out a number here) in violent crimes post-banning then clearly it didn't work because the theory of making the population sitting ducks for criminals by removing their only efficient means to self-defense is correct.  Of course, people pointedly ignore the overall crime rates or other sort of violent crimes and whether they increase or decrease post-ban and simply look at gun crimes alone because it shows a much more favorable picture of their point of view.

[mahlertitan]

No, it's never that simple. Read his plays that he wrote in his creative writing class. My bet is he was a kid who was traumatized by a move to a new culture at a young age, then had to endure sexual abuse as a child (see the play about Richard McBeef). In addition, I suspect he had a lot of pressure from home to succeed in school, which were high expectations he didn't quite fulfill (his sister went to an ivy (Princeton), he didn't). That coupled with a general youth culture that glorifies "winners" and looks down upon "losers" probably contributed to a combination of lethally low self-esteem and inadequate socialization which meant he had nobody he trusted and opened up to, so all of this was just bottled up until it exploded one day.

i did, I posted those links!

I read the plays, the plays make no sense, it's full of mindless violence and profanities. He wasn't a very subtle playwright i tell you that. What you said is exactly my initial diagnosis, i told my friends that the fact his sister was at Princeton definitely played a huge role. You know these Asian parents can be at times, they are complete ignorant of their children's feelings, i have no problem imagine that his parents constantly pressured him to be like his sister, to go to princeton, to go to yale, but he failed to fufill the expectations, in other words, he always felt inferior, this probably generated most of his anger.

as for sexual abuse, i am not very sure of that. I am afraid that we are going to need more evidence to prove that he was victimized when he was young.

[Michel]

That's nonsense.  The majority of north-americans don't own guns or enjoy violence.  Where have you been living?

Everyone seems to love watching it on the news. Why are negative things "news" and little jenny passing her piano exam not?

[MishaK]

To me is really very simple: the majority of north-americans
worship guns and enjoy violence immensely. Any intent to
ban guns has failed and is going to fail in the future. You can't
change a people's mentality.

Actually, the majority of Americans approve gun control. Your argument is total nonsense.

as for sexual abuse, i am not very sure of that. I am afraid that we are going to need more evidence to prove that he was victimized when he was young.

A kid doesn't write about sexual abuse from adults just like that. There has to be some real life precedent. It's not a topic that juveniles are so comfortable with that they will openly write about it. The lack of imagination in his writing further supports that there is a real life basis for his stories, which are mostly vengenace fantasies.

[Don]

Everyone seems to love watching it on the news. Why are negative things "news" and little jenny passing her piano exam not?

Because little jenny passing her piano exam is only news to her immediate family and friends.  If she cheated on her exam, perhaps that would elicit a news feature.

[carlos]

OMensh:If the majority of Americans really want guns
control, they would have guns control. But they don't,
and they wouldn't have it. So,your affirmation is total
nonsense.

[Don]

OMensh:If the majority of Americans really want guns
control, they would have guns control. But they don't,
and they wouldn't have it. So,your affirmation is total
nonsense.

I think it's more a case of the majority not having guns but being highly skeptical of strict controls.

[Mayfielder]

Let's not overlook the fact that the gunman was not American - he was Korean.
Americans were the victims of this crime, not the perpetrators.

[Greta]

Everyone seems to love watching it on the news.

Unfortunately, the news media decides for us what is news.  I personally am sick of seeing his face plastered all over the news, all day it's been on, the horrific photos of him with a gun to his head, brandishing a hammer. It's exactly what he wanted, and they're right to get criticized for showing it. The students and their families are griping and I hope they don't stop.

This kind of thing makes mentally unstable young adults think it's quite glamourous, why not try it themselves someday and go out in a blaze of glory? This guy himself has said he idolized the Columbine shooters. I'm sure he'd love nothing more than to have a star portray him in a movie.

It's all really messed up, isn't it? As far as guns, they're horrible, but if they were banned, I know people would find a way illegally. Inevitable. And then the people who do have one around in a closet, want to be able to have it in case someone breaks in. I don't know what the answer is.

If there were a ban, how would that work with hunting? I always wondered that. That's a popular pasttime. In the European countries are there bans on guns, but an exception for shotguns? But, when you're far enough gone to shoot your classmates, you don't really care whether you have a concealed firearm or not...

What's really bad, again, how to fix it, but it's the horribly violent video games and the plop-in-front-of-the-TV culture for children. There was an interview with a former shooter now in jail, and he said he just thought it was like in a video game, you "shoot them a few times and they just get back up".

These games can be so addictive for young kids, especially if they're already isolated in some way, have family problems or want to "escape" from life. Games like these are distributed worldwide, and U.S. action movies full of guns and murder are also popular in other countries as well.  But, here there is a real problem with copycats and the media - you can look at how much more sharply escalated and brutal the incidents have become since Columbine, it's striking. These kinds of things make you want to never have kids. I would hardly want to let them out of my sight.

[Dungeon Master]

I've noticed that people always fail to pull up the overall stats for violent crimes pre and post-ban to look at the situation as a whole rather than just using the gun related stats.  Is there any particular reason for this?


Okay, I'll be fair, I know the reason, but I'm curious if anyone who does this sort of cherry picking will be honest about it.

OK, how about this. In a major scientific article (Ozanne-Smith, J; , K Ashby, S Newstead, V Z Stathakis and A Clapperton. ""Firearm related deaths: the impact of regulatory reform"". Prevention 2004;10:280-286, part of the British Medical Journal group) the authors conclude that since the gun control laws have been put in place, the number of firearms deaths have dropped by over 50% in Australia. Furthermore, from 1985 to 1997, there were 5 major random mass murders using firearms, there have been exactly NONE in Australia since 1997. Of course, there have been isolated single homicides (as stated, about 50 for the whole country for the year 1998), there have been no random mass murder rampages that seem to be so common for the USA. In Australia, it has become just too difficult for the vast majority of the population to get their hands on the type of gun that can cause such destruction, so quickly.

I should point out that in addition to the strict gun control laws that were put into place, Australia also had a gun amnesty and buy-back scheme where gun owners could sell their guns back to the government to be destroyed, no questions asked. This was funded by a 1 year, 1% tax levy on the population, that was extremely popular. We (Australians) got serious with gun control and it has paid off.

For me, the amazing thing is not that there are regular mass shootings in the US, but that the population seems so surprised and shocked each and every time it happens.

Get used to it. Until the USA get serious about gun control, these massacres will continue to happen.

[cx]

Let's not overlook the fact that the gunman was not American - he was Korean.
Americans were the victims of this crime, not the perpetrators.

The gunman lived in America for most of his life, and according to some recent articles surfacing about the bullying he received from peers in high school, it seems his social and psychological problems, if not started here, certainly developed here. And him being Korean is pretty irrelevant. It's not as if he came over to America last week and started killing Americans. Further, he wasn't racially motivated, and neither did he even show nationalistic tendencies. This was a severely troubled young man who grew up in America, and there's no need to bring race or nationality into the matter. I might add that the Korean government wanting to come over and apologize was completely unnecessary.

[mahlertitan]

The gunman lived in America for most of his life, and according to some recent articles surfacing about the bullying he received from peers in high school, it seems his social and psychological problems, if not started here, certainly developed here. And him being Korean is pretty irrelevant. It's not as if he came over to America last week and started killing Americans. Further, he wasn't racially motivated, and neither did he even show nationalistic tendencies. This was a severely troubled young man who grew up in America, and there's no need to bring race or nationality into the matter. I might add that the Korean government wanting to come over and apologize was completely unnecessary.

interestingly, he isn't the first asian male to do this, i can remember 16 years ago some chinese guy shot 5 people in his physics department, and years ago another Chinese guy shot a professor for firing him. 

[Daverz]

interestingly, he isn't the first asian male to do this, i can remember 16 years ago some chinese guy shot 5 people in his physics department, and years ago another Chinese guy shot a professor for firing him. 

Grad school is very stressfull, and the support system for students is abysmal.  And that's for students that are natives, you can imagine what it's like if you're thousands of miles away from home in a strange culture.