Movies you just cannot take seriously that want you to do just that.

71 dB · October 13, 2007, 08:01:47 AM

Quote from: Daidalos on October 13, 2007, 07:50:47 AM
I disagree. You cannot make a profound statement on the importance of moral choices by reducing such a complex question to something as black and white as the dark and the light side. And as far as philosophy goes, it seems to be some watered-down hybrid of Buddhism with a little bit of Christianity sprinkled on top, and some bad psychology: "If you are angry you will kill puppies" and so on. When the villains practically brag of their evil, then it's not very profound. Read Othello and Paradise Lost, then you will see a sophisticated take on the notion of evil and seduction and morality. SW does not have that. It does, however, have lightsabers.

Okay, you NEED to see Star Wars (a cultural phenomenon) crappy. Your choice. I enjoy the movies, a lot.

locrian · October 13, 2007, 08:02:48 AM

Quote from: Bogey on October 13, 2007, 07:56:34 AM
In full agreement with you and the later of two being the better of these.

You are correct, sir.

Daidalos · October 13, 2007, 08:07:26 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 08:01:47 AM
Okay, you NEED to see Star Wars (a cultural phenomenon) crappy. Your choice. I enjoy the movies, a lot.

I'm sorry? I "need" to perceive the cultural phenomenon Star Wars as crappy? I don't think it's crap. I think it is great entertainment that could have been much more. I consider it to be a lost opportunity. That doesn't mean I don't like the movies, far from it.

71 dB · October 13, 2007, 08:13:46 AM

Quote from: Daidalos on October 13, 2007, 08:07:26 AM
I'm sorry? I "need" to perceive the cultural phenomenon Star Wars as crappy? I don't think it's crap. I think it is great entertainment that could have been much more. I consider it to be a lost opportunity. That doesn't mean I don't like the movies, far from it.

Why don't you make you own saga and show Lucas how it's done?

If Star Wars lacks something it's Lucas' artistical choice, his way to balance things. Othello may have deeper philosophy but it lacks lightsabers. Is it meaningful to critizise it for that? Of course not.

If you like the movies how are they lost opportunities?

Daidalos · October 13, 2007, 08:25:08 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 08:13:46 AM
Why don't you make you own saga and show Lucas how it's done?

Just you wait!

QuoteIf Star Wars lacks something it's Lucas' artistical choice, his way to balance things.

Yes, Lucas' films, just as the Force, must always remain in balance. Such is the way of things. May the Fudge be with you. *bows*

QuoteOthello may have deeper philosophy but it lacks lightsabers. Is it meaningful to critizise it for that? Of course not.

If fans of Othello were deluded into thinking it had great lightsabre-duels, then yes, it would be meaningful to critizise it for it and point out that infact it lacks lightsabre-duels alltogether.

QuoteIf you like the movies how are they lost opportunities?

Well, as entertainment I guess they are not lost opportunities, hence my general liking of the movies. However, they could have been better on the "artistic" side of things, and as such they represent lost opportunities in that regard.

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:26:31 AM

Quote from: Corey on October 13, 2007, 04:51:16 AM
Exactly. He wanted to create something in the tradition of the 50s space operas like Flash Gordon, something that your diehard SW fan would be loath to admit nowadays, considering what the franchise has ballooned to.

As much as I love them, it's really B-movie material, but excellently executed — that's what separates it from other cheesy sci-fi flicks.

Is it art? That depends on your own definition of what art is. For me, it isn't.

Cool post, Corey! Especially concerning the definition of art.

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:29:07 AM

Quote from: longears on October 13, 2007, 04:57:24 AM

Nah...it was a big disappointment after the first two, which were a lot of fun: old movie serials with more sophisticated special effects. But then Lucas lost his way--amazing how often extreme worldly success does that to people [insert wry emoticon here].

I do agree with Pojo about Pearl Harbor--in fact, ~~almost~~ anything with Afleck. The kids rented it and I sat through about 40 minutes, but not even Kate Beckinsale's beauty was enough to keep me watching. I told them to see Tora Tora Tora if they wanted a good dramatization, or From Here to Eternity if they wanted a Hollywood drama set against that backdrop. Crap like Pearl Harbor is to movies what Kenny G is to jazz.

Spyro Gyra, anyone?

Great post, and I agree with much of it. I should mention that I watched movies like Armageddon and Pearl Harbor having the mindset that they were basically junk, and ended up enjoying them (and of course later mostly forgetting them). MacDonald's makes movies.

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:30:12 AM

Quote from: Bogey on October 13, 2007, 06:09:54 AM
Yup, this is what I am looking for David....movies that "believe" they are sending civilization a "message" that will inspire or change our thinking when in fact, in the end, they are actually deliver pretentious "crapola" that makes us just shake our heads muttering "what the....", or in some cases making us laugh out loud because in the end they crossed into the realm of "comical genius" without even realizing it.

Arma-f'-in-geddon

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:31:43 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 06:37:49 AM

Dude, that movie came out 1983. There's 3 new movies now for you to "really dislike". I'm sorry you can't enjoy these awesome movies.

Thank you for being kind. I should give the prequels another spin...sometime.

71 dB · October 13, 2007, 08:34:05 AM

Quote from: Daidalos on October 13, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
If fans of Othello were deluded into thinking it had great lightsabre-duels, then yes, it would be meaningful to critizise it for it and point out that infact it lacks lightsabre-duels alltogether.

What exactly were you deluded into thinking about Star Wars? Othello with lightsabers?

Quote from: Daidalos on October 13, 2007, 08:25:08 AMWell, as entertainment I guess they are not lost opportunities, hence my general liking of the movies. However, they could have been better on the "artistic" side of things, and as such they represent lost opportunities in that regard.

I followed closely the making of the new trilogy online between 1997-2005. I think I have very good understanding about Lucas' way of thinking and his art. After seeing the insane amount of concept art created and perfected for the movies I can say they are pretty much as perfect artistically as possible.

Keemun · October 13, 2007, 08:34:32 AM

Here's one I cannot take seriously: Crash

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:34:45 AM

Quote from: Bogey on October 13, 2007, 07:56:34 AM
In full agreement with you and the later of two being the better of these.

Yeah, Bill, didn't Empire Strikes Back seem to be "dark" in an enormously cool way?

Bogey · October 13, 2007, 08:35:37 AM

Quote from: Keemun on October 13, 2007, 08:34:32 AM
Here's one I cannot take seriously: Crash

Post of the day!

Bogey · October 13, 2007, 08:37:12 AM

Quote from: Haffner on October 13, 2007, 08:34:45 AM

Yeah, Bill, didn't Empire Strikes Back seem to be "dark" in an enormously cool way?

Exactly Andy....but all for not when the Ewoks were introduced in the next movie.

71 dB · October 13, 2007, 08:39:27 AM

Quote from: Haffner on October 13, 2007, 08:31:43 AM
Thank you for being kind. I should give the prequels another spin...sometime.

Kind?

I am not one to say what you should do but if you give them another spin I advice you to do what Lucas wants people to do: sit comfortable on you sofa, eat pop corn and just enjoy the ride. Star Wars tends to get better with multiple viewing as they are so complex.

Also, watch the extra materials on the DVDs. They give you a very good picture about the quality of these movies.

Daidalos · October 13, 2007, 08:39:42 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 08:34:05 AM
What exactly were you deluded into thinking about Star Wars? Othello with lightsabers?

Yes, I want my money back.

QuoteI followed closely the making of the new trilogy online between 1997-2005. I think I have very good understanding about Lucas' way of thinking and his art. After seeing the insane amount of concept art created and perfected for the movies I can say they are pretty much as perfect artistically as possible.

Yes, the movies are well-made conceptually. But that is still the surface, superficial. No matter how pretty the dresses or how well-thought out the starships are, if the story is bloated and overblown it will still be mediocre.

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:40:11 AM

Quote from: Bogey on October 13, 2007, 08:37:12 AM
Exactly Andy....but all for not when the Ewoks were introduced in the next movie.

I was 16 or 17 when "Return..." premiered, and my parents came up to the front of the theater where my brother and I were sitting and said they were ready to leave over 1/2 hour before the movie was over.

Daidalos · October 13, 2007, 08:40:37 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 08:39:27 AM
[...] shit comfortable on you sofa, eat pop corn and just enjoy the ride.

That made my day. Oh, silly me.

Keemun · October 13, 2007, 08:42:35 AM

Quote from: Bogey on October 13, 2007, 08:35:37 AM
Post of the day!

Thanks.

Haffner · October 13, 2007, 08:43:05 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 08:39:27 AM
Kind?

I see you as an essentially good person with alot of great insight to contribute, Poju. I don't get engaged in vehement debates, as I come to this forum to enjoy the companionship and insights of others whom also love Our Music.

I will certainly give those 3 movies another spin, but "Return of the Jedi" is a lost cause for me.

Movies you just cannot take seriously that want you to do just that.

locrian

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