The British Composers Thread

[relm1]

I quite like Paul Patterson.  I first came across his music in the 1990's but am surprised there isn't more of his music available.  Any others here who likes his music?

[Roy Bland]

[Roasted Swan]

I quite like Paul Patterson.  I first came across his music in the 1990's but am surprised there isn't more of his music available.  Any others here who likes his music?

I have that recording but couldn't tell you when I last heard it(!) I must dig it out and give it a go......

[Irons]

I quite like Paul Patterson.  I first came across his music in the 1990's but am surprised there isn't more of his music available.  Any others here who likes his music?

I heard Concerto for Orchestra on a YouTube channel I subscribe to :  https://youtu.be/TcjIfTnwCt8
Liked it enough to buy a copy.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I heard Concerto for Orchestra on a YouTube channel I subscribe to :  https://youtu.be/TcjIfTnwCt8
Liked it enough to buy a copy.

Am enjoying the Concerto for Orchestra now.  Thanks for the rec and the link. 

PD

[Roy Bland]

[Symphonic Addict]

Today I discovered Alexander Mackenzie's String Quartet in G major from this CD:



And it's an utterly charming, tuneful work with the only goal to please the listener. Perhaps it may lack more contrast of moods, but it's undeniable that it's enchanting.

[kyjo]

Today I discovered Alexander Mackenzie's String Quartet in G major from this CD:



And it's an utterly charming, tuneful work with the only goal to please the listener. Perhaps it may lack more contrast of moods, but it's undeniable that it's enchanting.

Sounds delightful! The only work by Mackenzie I know is his Pibroch Suite for violin and orchestra, which is exactly as one would expect: tuneful, folksy, and Scottish to the core. It's superbly recorded here:

[Roasted Swan]

Sounds delightful! The only work by Mackenzie I know is his Pibroch Suite for violin and orchestra, which is exactly as one would expect: tuneful, folksy, and Scottish to the core. It's superbly recorded here:

That whole Cedille disc from Burton Pine is top-notch both in terms of programmiang and performing

[relm1]

I thought very highly of this album of Malcolm Lipkin's symphonies.  Unfortunately, there is very little else by this composer, but I thought these works were imaginative, meticulously constructed and well conceived. 

[Symphonic Addict]

Sounds delightful! The only work by Mackenzie I know is his Pibroch Suite for violin and orchestra, which is exactly as one would expect: tuneful, folksy, and Scottish to the core. It's superbly recorded here:

Interesting, Kyle. For some reason I sometimes overlook composers who didn't write symphonies and I don't explore beyond.

[Roasted Swan]

I've spent the last few weeks working on editing more string orchestra scores from the original manuscripts held in London's Royal College of Music by W H Reed - Elgar's friend and advisor on all things violin.

The major/most interesting is quite a big work - roughly 21 minutes in playing length - called Variations Caracteristiques (sur un Thème Originale).  This is a theme, 8 variations and a Finale that Reed completed - according to the date he wrote on the score - on September 12th 1910.  Now here is an interesting couple of things; Reed bumped into Elgar in May 1910 and that sparked the close friendship that endured for the rest of the older composer's life.  Also Reed's LSO gave the first performance of RVW's "Tallis Fantasia" in Gloucester Cathedral literally a week before he completed this set of Variations.  There is a use of big dynamically contrasted large and solo string groups at the end of the variations that seems to echo effects in the Tallis?  Also the opening of the work and the shape/style of the 1st and 2nd variations has a distinct similarity to the same variations in EE's Enigma.......  but overall a genuinely interesting, well-crafted work that deserves to be heard and better known........

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I've spent the last few weeks working on editing more string orchestra scores from the original manuscripts held in London's Royal College of Music by W H Reed - Elgar's friend and advisor on all things violin.

The major/most interesting is quite a big work - roughly 21 minutes in playing length - called Variations Caracteristiques (sur un Thème Originale).  This is a theme, 8 variations and a Finale that Reed completed - according to the date he wrote on the score - on September 12th 1910.  Now here is an interesting couple of things; Reed bumped into Elgar in May 1910 and that sparked the close friendship that endured for the rest of the older composer's life.  Also Reed's LSO gave the first performance of RVW's "Tallis Fantasia" in Gloucester Cathedral literally a week before he completed this set of Variations.  There is a use of big dynamically contrasted large and solo string groups at the end of the variations that seems to echo effects in the Tallis?  Also the opening of the work and the shape/style of the 1st and 2nd variations has a distinct similarity to the same variations in EE's Enigma.......  but overall a genuinely interesting, well-crafted work that deserves to be heard and better known........

Quite interesting!  A couple of questions for you:  1) When you say that you're editing, what exactly are you doing?  Are you recopying scores that have things like cross outs and changes noted...or something else?  Just curious as to how the/your process works    2) Was he there at the Tallis premiere? and lastly, 3) When did Elgar start and finish his Enigma and would Reed have heard any of it before finishing his own work?

In any event, you're doing quite interesting work.  Sounds like you are truly doing a labor of love.  Are you hoping to get more of his work published and performed?

Interesting to read about him here:  https://ehms.lib.umn.edu/the-works-of-william-reed/

Best,

PD

[Roasted Swan]

Quite interesting!  A couple of questions for you:  1) When you say that you're editing, what exactly are you doing?  Are you recopying scores that have things like cross outs and changes noted...or something else?  Just curious as to how the/your process works    2) Was he there at the Tallis premiere? and lastly, 3) When did Elgar start and finish his Enigma and would Reed have heard any of it before finishing his own work?

In any event, you're doing quite interesting work.  Sounds like you are truly doing a labor of love.  Are you hoping to get more of his work published and performed?

Interesting to read about him here:  https://ehms.lib.umn.edu/the-works-of-william-reed/

Best,

PD

Thankyou for your interest PD! 

In this instance "editing" is actually quite a simple process.  Reed's manuscript is naturally quite neat and legible and he is pretty concientious regarding dynamics/phrasing etc.  All I am doing is as part of the transcription to Sibelius ensuring that all these expression/technical indications are consistent across all parts.  As a guideline I have also suggested metronome markings that are in line with the tempo indications already given - so if Reed has marked it "Allegro" I have given that a nominal value (apart from anything else this ensures that Sibelius plays the score back in a manner that to my ear seems "right").  There are a very few missing accidentals but these are quite easy to spot after a while either by ear or eye.  I see the main purpose of doing this as producing performing editions that will actually allow this music to be heard again - in my opinion it is certainly worthy of that.  As far as I know these works were never published - there are some indications (pencil corrections etc) in the score that imply this score (and therefore manuscript parts - goodness knows where they are!) were performed from.  But of course engraving music back then for publication was a slow and expensive process.  From the manuscript alone it seems clear that Reed took a lot of care over these variations.  The other score I have just transcibed (Down in the West Country - a suite of folksongs for strings) seems more rushed/less carefully conceived or indeed written.

As to your other questions.  I don't know for certain if Reed was at the Tallis premiere but I would think it must be very likely he was; 1) he was a member of the LSO who gave the premiere in Gloucester although he did not become leader until 1912 2) he was in Gloucester for the 3 Choirs Festival then giving the first informal run-through of the Elgar concerto just days earlier 3) Gerontius was in the 2nd half of the Tallis premiere programme - I can't believe Reed would not have been playing that work for Elgar....   As an aside early September1910 was BUSY for Reed - not only was he preparing this playthrough of the Elgar Concerto - very hard and demanding let alone the pressure of playing in front of the great and the good, there was also the Tallis Premiere AND he was completing his own Variations - he was on fire that week!!

Elgar wrote "Enigma" between October 1898 and February 1899.  So before he had met/became friends with Reed.  I bet if he'd ever written another set Reed would have been a "friend pictured within".  Reed first became acquainted with Elgar professionally in 1902 so he would definitely have known his music and as a string player admired it.  The LSO also premiered the Introduction & Allegro - a couple of the Reed pieces I have previously worked on seem to be influenced by that work for sure.

I have some plans to approach people about this music and indeed I conduct my own professional orchestra so just a case of trying to raise some funding to play it(!!).  Whatever happens at some point I will make sure it gains the wider availability either as scores or in recordings that it deserves.  There is a published Symphony for Strings by Reed from 1934 that also deserves to be much better known.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Thankyou for your interest PD! 

In this instance "editing" is actually quite a simple process.  Reed's manuscript is naturally quite neat and legible and he is pretty concientious regarding dynamics/phrasing etc.  All I am doing is as part of the transcription to Sibelius ensuring that all these expression/technical indications are consistent across all parts.  As a guideline I have also suggested metronome markings that are in line with the tempo indications already given - so if Reed has marked it "Allegro" I have given that a nominal value (apart from anything else this ensures that Sibelius plays the score back in a manner that to my ear seems "right").  There are a very few missing accidentals but these are quite easy to spot after a while either by ear or eye.  I see the main purpose of doing this as producing performing editions that will actually allow this music to be heard again - in my opinion it is certainly worthy of that.  As far as I know these works were never published - there are some indications (pencil corrections etc) in the score that imply this score (and therefore manuscript parts - goodness knows where they are!) were performed from.  But of course engraving music back then for publication was a slow and expensive process.  From the manuscript alone it seems clear that Reed took a lot of care over these variations.  The other score I have just transcibed (Down in the West Country - a suite of folksongs for strings) seems more rushed/less carefully conceived or indeed written.

As to your other questions.  I don't know for certain if Reed was at the Tallis premiere but I would think it must be very likely he was; 1) he was a member of the LSO who gave the premiere in Gloucester although he did not become leader until 1912 2) he was in Gloucester for the 3 Choirs Festival then giving the first informal run-through of the Elgar concerto just days earlier 3) Gerontius was in the 2nd half of the Tallis premiere programme - I can't believe Reed would not have been playing that work for Elgar....  As an aside early September1910 was BUSY for Reed - not only was he preparing this playthrough of the Elgar Concerto - very hard and demanding let alone the pressure of playing in front of the great and the good, there was also the Tallis Premiere AND he was completing his own Variations - he was on fire that week!!

Elgar wrote "Enigma" between October 1898 and February 1899.  So before he had met/became friends with Reed.  I bet if he'd ever written another set Reed would have been a "friend pictured within".  Reed first became acquainted with Elgar professionally in 1902 so he would definitely have known his music and as a string player admired it.  The LSO also premiered the Introduction & Allegro - a couple of the Reed pieces I have previously worked on seem to be influenced by that work for sure.

I have some plans to approach people about this music and indeed I conduct my own professional orchestra so just a case of trying to raise some funding to play it(!!).  Whatever happens at some point I will make sure it gains the wider availability either as scores or in recordings that it deserves.  There is a published Symphony for Strings by Reed from 1934 that also deserves to be much better known.

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Is the Three Choirs Festival a multi-day affair?  As an aside, I do know that VW loved that festival--wish that I could have been there to have heard his Bach performance(s?).  I missed out on purchasing a recording from Somm some years ago alas.  And was that performance of the Tallis part of the festival or a separate concert at that location?  That's a favorite work of mine. 

With the Sibelius program, can one also use it to print a score or is it just for creating or recreating a work audibly?  Are you thinking of using it to interest sponsors in the work?

PD

[Roasted Swan]

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Is the Three Choirs Festival a multi-day affair?  As an aside, I do know that VW loved that festival--wish that I could have been there to have heard his Bach performance(s?).  I missed out on purchasing a recording from Somm some years ago alas.  And was that performance of the Tallis part of the festival or a separate concert at that location?  That's a favorite work of mine. 

With the Sibelius program, can one also use it to print a score or is it just for creating or recreating a work audibly?  Are you thinking of using it to interest sponsors in the work?

PD

Here's a link to this year's 3 Choirs - back in Gloucester in 2023 just like 1910!

https://3choirs.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1MDzpM6ngAMVjfntCh3SeAkFEAAYASAAEgKucfD_BwE

RVW features strongly this year btw.  I must admit I assumed the Tallis Premiere was part of the festival but perhaps not - I've never actually checked.

Sibelius is primarily for writing scores - the dots on pages using traditional music notation - the playback is a useful extra - some posters on the forum have invested in superior music sample libaries and playback software to be able to produce remarkably realistic sounding "performances" of their scores.  I've never got that far - I just really use the playback as a proofing tool.

Here's a link to the 1st page of the transcribed score....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPz0t_jmM3KCze_qeitnhyW3rSsLgx6M/view?usp=sharing

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Here's a link to this year's 3 Choirs - back in Gloucester in 2023 just like 1910!

https://3choirs.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1MDzpM6ngAMVjfntCh3SeAkFEAAYASAAEgKucfD_BwE

RVW features strongly this year btw.  I must admit I assumed the Tallis Premiere was part of the festival but perhaps not - I've never actually checked.

Sibelius is primarily for writing scores - the dots on pages using traditional music notation - the playback is a useful extra - some posters on the forum have invested in superior music sample libaries and playback software to be able to produce remarkably realistic sounding "performances" of their scores.  I've never got that far - I just really use the playback as a proofing tool.

Here's a link to the 1st page of the transcribed score....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPz0t_jmM3KCze_qeitnhyW3rSsLgx6M/view?usp=sharing

I took a look at my Michael Kennedy book, and he wrote that the work premiered at Gloucester, 6 September 1910 with the LSO [and elsewhere in the book in the Gloucester Cathedral--which I remember because I was dying to get a hold of a copy of a recording from there with Sir Andrew Davis which I eventually did].  I suspect that it was during the festival but don't know the dates of it for that year.  Actually, on page 93 of that book he also wrote:  "The second fantasia, written for the Gloucester meeting of the Three Choirs and played on Tuesday, 6 September...."

Thanks for that link.  Interesting to see what it looks like--alas, I can't read music though. 

PD

[Luke]

Interesting, was emailing with someone from the Elgar Society just a few days ago, on subjects which touched on Reed, among other things, which got me over to IMSLP to look at the Reed scores they have, and I was struck by how legible and straightforward to transcribe they would be - and there you are doing just that! The ones on IMSLP include at least one of the ones you are looking at, too.

Of course, famously among the audience at the premiere of the Tallis Fantasia were two young friends - Herbert Howells and Ivor Gurney - who roamed the streets of Gloucester together after the concert, dumbstruck at what they'd just heard. In the second half of the concert Howells sat next to RVW and shared his score as they listened to Gerontius.

[Roasted Swan]

Interesting, was emailing with someone from the Elgar Society just a few days ago, on subjects which touched on Reed, among other things, which got me over to IMSLP to look at the Reed scores they have, and I was struck by how legible and straightforward to transcribe they would be - and there you are doing just that! The ones on IMSLP include at least one of the ones you are looking at, too.

Of course, famously among the audience at the premiere of the Tallis Fantasia were two young friends - Herbert Howells and Ivor Gurney - who roamed the streets of Gloucester together after the concert, dumbstruck at what they'd just heard. In the second half of the concert Howells sat next to RVW and shared his score as they listened to Gerontius.

The extremely helpful folk at the RCM library posted the very detailed/hi-res scans online as a consequence of my request/enquiry about the music.  Its a logical and useful process.  So in effect the manuscripts on IMSLP are there as a result of my original request.  So I have now completed editing/transcribing;

Pavane
Elegie
Scherzo
Variations
Intermezzo
Down in the West Country
The Vale of Clwyd

IMSLP only has the manuscripts not my transcriptions which I am looking to use myself in recording/performing or some such

[Luke]

Understood - that's great! Yes, I looked at all of those the other night. Very interesting.