Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Ah, yes, completely agreed when you put it this way. I have a very idiomatic way of conducting Haydn...

Ideally you should be seated, as though at a harpsichord. So the hands are high, a lot of pointing between phrases, and some scowling at those rascally hornists in the back...

Hopefully not the air-yawning I witnessed at a recital earlier this evening (not a fault of the pianist, mind you).

Pity, he/she must have been discouraged over seeing all those tonsils. Reminds me of Mozart's letter to Papa from Paris about the lady who was sewing with her friends during the music and pretty much ignoring him...

[Florestan]

Ideally you should be seated

I never conduct standing, be it Haydn or Mahler! 

[SonicMan46]

WOW.....three Amazon sellers have it for under $12 new, that's a great deal

Well, today I put in an order at the price above (+ $3 S/H) on the Marketplace for the 3-disc Staier set - hard to resist! Dave 

[Opus106]

Well, today I put in an order at the price above (+ $3 S/H) on the Marketplace for the 3-disc Staier set - hard to resist! Dave 

I see three sellers currently offering the discs for less than $12. Kindly let us know how if the order gets through successfully.

[SonicMan46]

I see three sellers currently offering the discs for less than $12. Kindly let us know how if the order gets through successfully.

Well, I used a MP retailer in Pennsylvania (96% positive comments) - price was $11.84 + $2.98 - only about 3 states away from me, so I'm expecting a quick and hopefully a positive transaction - Dave 

[Eddie Williamson]

Currently reading the March-April 2010 issue of Fanfare - James North has a lengthy review of the Buchberger Quartet performances, which is reprinted HERE for those interested - this group has been both applauded and berated in this thread - this current review is quite positive - provided FYI - 

I read that.  Gushing review.

I haven't posted on this board in a while.  Trying to decide which Haydn quartets to get: Buchberger or Auryn or Festetics?  Interested in performance only, not value.  Thanks!

[George]

I read that.  Gushing review.

I haven't posted on this board in a while.  Trying to decide which Haydn quartets to get: Buchberger or Auryn or Festetics?  Interested in performance only, not value.  Thanks!

Not one of your choices, but I enjoy the Tatrai on Hungaroton.

[Florestan]

Even the bigger things, like the symphonies, can be viewed in this way.

Well, taking into account that frequently the musicians in the Eszterhazy's orchestra outnumbered the audience, I guess that performing the symphonies in a 1000-seat concert hall is as un-Haydnesque as it gets. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, taking into account that frequently the musicians in the Eszterhazy's orchestra outnumbered the audience, I guess that performing the symphonies in a 1000-seat concert hall is as un-Haydnesque as it gets. 

I love the way you think...

Yes, for anything in the first 40 or so, figure 18 musicians and 8-10 audience members. Hell of a world premiere!

[Clever Hans]

I read that.  Gushing review.

I haven't posted on this board in a while.  Trying to decide which Haydn quartets to get: Buchberger or Auryn or Festetics?  Interested in performance only, not value.  Thanks!

Quatuor Mosaïques. No one else I've heard plays with the same warmth and colors.

[DavidRoss]

Y'all might find it gratifying to learn that I'm loving the Quatuor Mosaiques Haydn opus 20 so much that I just followed it up with this:



Seriously, I've never paid so much attention to Haydn before, having always drifted along with the surface beauty and charm and never giving the music much thought--or my full attention.  Okay, so maybe there's nothing so gut-wrenching as Beethoven or so sublime as Sibelius, but who says you gotta have that to be great?  Somewhere in the liner notes to the Mosaiques's op 20 set is a reference to the character of these quartets as "operatic."  And so they are!

[Gurn Blanston]

David,
I DO find it gratifying, I'm delighted for you. The essence of Haydn is that he is a tremendous entertainer at any level that you care to approach his music. I like the Mosaiques rendition of Op 20, it is a different take from my other favorite, the Festetics, but both of them seem to grasp that entertainment factor better than many do. Not as though it was an academic exercise, but music that still has a breath of life left in it.



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Listening to:
The English Concert / Pinnock - Hob 01 043 Symphony in Eb 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[alkan]

By coincidence, I am taking the opposite route to David Ross.    I've been listening to the Mosaiques Op76/77 box set, and I've just ordered their Op 20/33 box.    Really looking forward to hearing this music as I am not familiar with it.      By way of contrast, I'm also awaiting delivery of the late Masses by Bruno Weil .... it seemed to get good reviews and the price is unbeatable ... less than 10 euros for these incredible masterpieces.

I enjoy almost all classical composers, but Hadyn is the one I listen to most frequently ......

[jlaurson]

Quatuor Mosaïques. No one else I've heard plays with the same warmth and colors.

Seconded. seconded. seconded. Having the Quatuor Casals on my ears for a few days... Disappointment at the highest level, but only because I thought they might set new standards. They don't. QM remains unchallenged. The Buchbergers, however, are always an interesting backup, given their rambunctious take on the music. The Auryn Cruise is a completely different approach. "Liebst Du um Schoenheit", then Auryn is your cup of tea.

[Gurn Blanston]

Just a note in passing: does anyone else find the tempo marking for the 2nd movement of Symphony #70 in D as quintessentially Haydn as I do? Which is to say, amusing.

"Specie d'un Canone in Contrapunto Doppio: Andante"

"A kind of canon in limping counterpoint: moving along".

I don't know if a whole lot of composers before Satie used things like this. Other than the inimitable Mozart, I can't remember running across any.



----------------
Listening to:
Staier, Andreas - Hob 16 37 Sonata in D for Fortepiano 3rd mvmt - Finale: Presto ma non troppo

[Gurn Blanston]

By coincidence, I am taking the opposite route to David Ross.    I've been listening to the Mosaiques Op76/77 box set, and I've just ordered their Op 20/33 box.    Really looking forward to hearing this music as I am not familiar with it.      By way of contrast, I'm also awaiting delivery of the late Masses by Bruno Weil .... it seemed to get good reviews and the price is unbeatable ... less than 10 euros for these incredible masterpieces.

I enjoy almost all classical composers, but Hadyn is the one I listen to most frequently ......

Forwards or backwards, you can't go wrong, Alkan. As noted earlier, I like that set a lot. I prefer the Festetics because they are much more unbuttoned, but that doesn't mean at all that I don't really enjoy the note perfection of the Mosaiques either. Haydn works well any way at all, other than ponderously serious. I can just turn that right off and pitch it. Or leave it for Jens... (just kidding, Jens ).



----------------
Listening to:
Staier, Andreas - Hob 16 38 Sonata in Eb for Fortepiano 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Gurn Blanston]

1769 was a relative respite for Haydn. Not a single symphony can be reliably dated to that year, no church music, no major chamber works. He began the set of 6 duos for violin & viola, and also completed an Italian opera (La Pescatrici (The Fisherwomen) Hob 28_04, based on a libretto by Goldoni)) but only a delightful fragment remains (with a completion by Robbins-Landon which proves why he was a musicologist instead of a composer). There is undoubtedly more, probably lost forever, but this is what remains:

1769
Hob 01_106 Le Pescatrici Sinfonia in D

Hob 06_04 Duo in D for Violin & Viola
Hob 06_06 Duo in C for Violin & Viola

Hob 11_073 Trio in G for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_074 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_075 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_076 Trio in C for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_077 Trio in G for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_078 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_079 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4
Hob 11_080 Trio in G for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 4

Hob 18_04 Concerto in G for Keyboard




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Listening to:
Cerasi, Carole - Hob 16 40 Sonata in G for Fortepiano 2nd mvmt - Presto

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I'm not sure if this disc has already been discussed in this or another thread, but just some further thoughts might be worth more rumination:

Sonatas for Violin & Fortepiano w/ Alberto Bologni (violin, Santo Serafino, 1734) & Giuseppe Modugno (fortepiano, Johann Schantz, 1815) - of course the initial question is whether Papa Joe wrote music for this duo of instruments? 

There are 5 compositions listed w/ the following Hoboken designations: Hob.XV a N. 1 (B flat major), Hob.XV a N. 2 (D major), Hob.XV a N. 3 (C major), Hob.XV:31 (E flat minor), & Hob.XV:32 (G major).  Now in reviewing the catalog in the New Grove Haydn bio, the last two are listed and attributed to the composer; however, I cannot definitely locate the first three - real or not?  The performers claim these are authentic.  Interestingly, the Hob.XV works are generally listed as 'Keyboard Trios', so another curiosity.

Concerning the performance, these are well done, pleasant, and with an up front recording stage - the violin is a little bright (wonder if it is gut or steel strung?); the fortepiano sounds great!  A review from the Jan-Feb 2010 issue of the ARG is pictured below along w/ the cover art for the disc.  Dave 

 

Dave,
I did finally find a review of this disk, it has a little supplemental info that you might find interesting.

Franz Joseph HAYDN (1732 - 1809): "Sonatas for Violin and Fortepiano Hob. XVa - XV 31, 32"

Giuseppe Fausto Modugno, fortepiano; Alberto Bologni, violin
rec: Jan 12 - 13, 2009, Imola, Palazzo Monsignani-Sassatelli
Concerto - CD 2048 (© 2009) (63'16")

Sonata in B flat (H XVa,1); Sonata in D (H XVa,2); Sonata in C (H XVa,3); Trio (Sonata) in E flat minor (H XV,31); Trio (Sonata) in G (H XV,32)

The sonatas for keyboard and violin by Mozart and Beethoven belong to the standard repertoire for this scoring. But where is Haydn? He inspired both Mozart and Beethoven with his piano trios and string quartets, but why didn't he contribute to this genre?

Well, he did. Two of his trios for keyboard, violin and cello were originally written without a part for the cello. It is therefore certainly legitimate to perform the Sonatas in E flat minor and in G major with only keyboard and violin as on this disc. That is not all. In the programme notes to his recording of all Haydn's piano trios (Brilliant Classics) the Dutch fortepiano specialist Bart van Oort has stated that virtually all piano trios can be performed without the participation of a cello. In a live performance the cello is needed to support the relative weak bass of the fortepiano and add some colour to the ensemble. But for the realisation of the musical material the cello is not really needed.

This offers an interesting perspective for players like Giuseppe Fausto Modugno and Alberto Bologni. They could have added some of the piano trios to the Sonatas H XV, 31 and 32. But instead they have chosen three sonatas whose authenticity seems not to be established, even though they are convinced they were written by Haydn. In a way this choice is to be applauded. Compositions of doubtful authenticity are seldom played and recorded. That is also the case with the three sonatas catalogued as H XVa. But as their musical quality is far less doubtful than their authenticity one may be thankful that they are available on disc now.

What all these sonatas have in common is that the keyboard has the lead, and that the violin is largely reduced to doubling one of the lines of the keyboard. This, of course, is mostly the right hand, but sometimes the violin plays with the bass line of the keyboard part. Only now and then it follows its own path. There is nothing special about this: in sonatas of this kind in Haydn's time this was the rule rather than the exception.

The artists give technically good performances and play with passion and zest, and there is also no lack of drama where it is required. That should be reason enough to recommend this disc. But I have two serious reservations.
Firstly, I think the choice of the fortepiano was a mistake. Giuseppe Modugno plays an instrument which was made by Johann Schantz in 1815. This instrument is far too modern for this repertoire. Considering the development of the fortepiano in that time this instrument is hardly more 'authentic' in Haydn than a modern concert grand. In addition, the Sonatas in E flat minor and in G major were written for the English pianist Therese Jansen, who will have used an instrument with English rather than Viennese action.
Secondly, this is chamber music and needs the intimacy of the salon, but that is a quality sorely mssing here. It seems this recording has been made in a large space and that results in a unnaturally big sound and far too much reverberation. The recording level is also quite high, so one is well advised to turn down the volume control, in particular when listening through headphones.

I nevertheless commend them to your attention, mainly because of the repertoire. It is wise to listen to a couple of tracks before purchase. This way you can decide for yourself whether the choice of the fortepiano and the quality of the recording are bothering you as much as they did me.

Johan van Veen (© 2010)

I will have to find this for myself, I guess. Amazon have it....

[SonicMan46]

Dave,
I did finally find a review of this disk, it has a little supplemental info that you might find interesting.

I will have to find this for myself, I guess. Amazon have it....

Hi Gurn - thanks for the additional information on the Sonatas for Violin & Fortepiano w/ Bologni & Modugno - purchased through the Amazon Marketplace for $11.84 (plus the usual $3 S/H) - but these are Haydn rarities for the 'completest' like us, I guess.  Not sure that I completely agree w/ the comment on 'too much reverberation' but would certainly be curious about the actual recording venue and the strings used on the violin - still cannot find much more doing some 'googling' myself at the moment?  Dave 

[Franco]

There is an interesting recording of Haydn: Sonata for Piano and Violin in G major done by Benjamin Britten and Yehudi Menuhin.

Not HIP, but interesting nonetheless.