Haydn's Haus

[DavidW]

Quick recs that I think you might like:

Op. 50-- Tokyo Quartet
Op. 71 & 74-- Griller Quartet

[Josquin des Prez]

I am unable to help you here, their Op 76 is the only one I've tried and their style didn't suit my taste at all.

Its one of the best String Quartet performances ever recorded. The style should be immaterial. Personally, i actually like the rustic quality they bring to Haydn, which seems quite appropriate, but to each his own i guess.

I know there are some folks that are inordinately fond of this group, hope they will check by here and share their thoughts. Meanwhile, if you haven't considered the Q. Mosaiques, listen to some clips. I doubt you'll find any performance issues there, although their style may not be to your taste...

I have the Mosaiques. Its very good, probably among the best HIP recordings i have. Any word of them completing the set though? I have collected most of their recordings but there's still quite a few opuses missing, and i have no idea whether they are simply not in print anymore or if they were recorded at all.

[Josquin des Prez]

Quick recs that I think you might like:

Op. 50-- Tokyo Quartet
Op. 71 & 74-- Griller Quartet

Own both already. Took a while to acquire them, but well worth the effort. Amazing recordings. I also have the Ysaye recording of the Op. 54 which is also great.

[Gurn Blanston]

Its one of the best String Quartet performances ever recorded. The style should be immaterial. Personally, i actually like the rustic quality they bring to Haydn, which seems quite appropriate, but to each his own i guess.

Actually, I found it ponderous, which is not something that can be easily overlooked.   They did, at that time, play wonderfully well, I was just mentally 2 bars ahead of them all the time...

I have the Mosaiques. Its very good, probably among the best HIP recordings i have. Any word of them completing the set though? I have collected most of their recordings but there's still quite a few opuses missing, and i have no idea whether they are simply not in print anymore or if they were recorded at all.

As far as I know they weren't recorded at all. It is amazing to me that they didn't do Op 50 in particular, and then Opp. 54, 55, 71 & 74, all of which are such interesting works. Well, it's not like they're dead yet...

[Josquin des Prez]

Well, it's not like they're dead yet...

No, but i'm afraid their playing might change or deteriorate with time. Their recent Beethoven recordings for instance aren't as exiting as their Haydn, and it leaves me worried. They are the best candidate for a definitive HIP recording of Haydn's string quartets. I also have the Festetics but to me they aren't anywhere near as interesting which is a problem. Somebody should tell them to hurry the hell up.

[Lethevich]

It's rather unfeasable that the series will be finished. Their rates of recording has slowed dramatically over the years - either they or their label no longer seem interested in the endevour of en-masse studio recording, despite the quartet remaining on the concert schedules...

[George]

I enjoy the Tatrai recordings of the Haydn SQ so much that I haven't bothered with any others.

I think Bogey is a big fan too.

[Herman]

I was wondering. Does anybody have any information regarding the supposed quality issue with the Tatrai set? The opus76 was recorded in 1964, when the ensemble was still in top form. I assume the rest of the set was recorded at a later date, but it seems strange to me that ALL of the set would be recorded years after the opus76. Surely, it must have been a gradual process of deterioration, which means those opuses which were recorded closer to the opus76 shouldn't be that far off in terms of quality, right? Inquiring minds want to know.

That may be a valid working hypothesis. However there's also the endemic problem of studio completism: if you have to record every single piece, it's bound to show you like some pieces better than the others  -  even iwhen you're performing Haydn SQs, with virtually no dud in the series. And the msitake in the Hungaroton cycle is they took so long. There's no telling if the members of the Tatrai quartet where as thrilled to see each other in the late eighties as in the sixties.

Here's a couple of dates on my sets:
Op 67: 1964
Op. 64: 1975
Op. 33: 1976
Op. 71/74: 1982
Op. 54/55: 1984
Op. 50: 1987

I have heard some people say that the Tatrai's Op. 17 or Op. 20 (I forget) are really the best in the bunch, but somehow I do not have those issues, and I don't know the recording dates.

[The new erato]

It's rather unfeasable that the series will be finished.

Probably true.

Their rates of recording has slowed dramatically over the years - either they or their label no longer seem interested in the endevour of en-masse studio recording, despite the quartet remaining on the concert schedules...

Probably true as well. The new release lists have a new recording of Schuberts Death and the Maiden. They seem to pick and choose their recordings very selectively. Though with their reputation, I think a few more Haydn discs qould selle quite well, as string quartet discs go.

[jlaurson]

... They seem to pick and choose their recordings very selectively. Though with their reputation, I think a few more Haydn discs qould selle quite well, as string quartet discs go.

That's probably how they got their reputation in the first place. I'm glad they're not cruising on it but are only recording what they have truly internalized. There are enough quartets that simply record as soon as they can play the notes.

[Lethevich]

The new release lists have a new recording of Schuberts Death and the Maiden.

This is a dream come true for me! Despite my love for their other discs, my favourite was their older Schubert one.

I pre-ordered, thanks for pointing it out

[ccar]

Here's a couple of dates on my sets:
Op 67: 1964
Op. 64: 1975
Op. 33: 1976
Op. 71/74: 1982
Op. 54/55: 1984
Op. 50: 1987

I have heard some people say that the Tatrai's Op. 17 or Op. 20 (I forget) are really the best in the bunch, but somehow I do not have those issues, and I don't know the recording dates.

Op. 1,2,42,103:1967
Op. 9: 1963
Op. 17:1968
Op. 20:no recording date in the notes (probably pre 1975)
Op. 51:no recording date in the notes (probably pre 1979)
Op. 76:1964
Op. 77:1974

[snyprrr]

I was wondering. Does anybody have any information regarding the supposed quality issue with the Tatrai set? The opus76 was recorded in 1964, when the ensemble was still in top form. I assume the rest of the set was recorded at a later date, but it seems strange to me that ALL of the set would be recorded years after the opus76. Surely, it must have been a gradual process of deterioration, which means those opuses which were recorded closer to the opus76 shouldn't be that far off in terms of quality, right? Inquiring minds want to know.

If we are to believe the dates that have now been given, then perhaps Opp. 9/17/76 are the best that we have from the Tatrai. I recall a negative Amazon review of Op.33.

I got their Op.76 thinking this was the standard that all the reviewers had been crowing about, but, although there is much wonderful, spontaneous, and professionally intact (re: intonation, etc,...) playing, I find lots to criticize also. I believe I posted my first reactions on this Thread a few (haha) pages back.

On the good side, I'm listening to the No.5, "Largo", right now, and it certainly can emotionally hold its own with any rival. There is hushed intensity and concentration aplenty. And, the recording simply gives an up front and truthful image. Perhaps in the meneut I have heard more point, and greater intensity in the cool cello line, but there is really nothing to criticize here. The same goes for the similar No.1.

I find their No.4 "Sunrise" a little quick in the evocative introduction, but, as I'm scanning, I'm finding them more agreeable than before. I recall a consensus that No.4 was the weakspot on the QM set.

The main problem for me is a really indercharacterized No.2 "Fifths", IMHO and all that jazz. I just don't hear it matching practically anyone here. I think I detect also a different venue, or something, in this particular track. The QM get my vote here, as they do in No.6.



My BOTTOM LINE here is that if this is what passes as the S**t for 30 years, then I conclude that the state of Haydn interpretation was in need at the time, and  can't yet vouche for the ProArte Quartet. Though I get a thrill from the 1964 recording,... that old timey, good time feeling is surely present, the whole set seems kind of patchy to me. I wonder about the Aeolian here. Anyhow, I just don't think they're as rustic as hoped, or inspirational in their insights. Nos. 1, 3, & 5 are solid, though, standard and professional (not that the rest aren't, but,....).

I also have the Auryn, ABQ (1,5,6), Kodaly, and Alberni. I have flat out given No.6 to the QM, with No.2 a close second. I also enjoy the ABQ's original Teldec No.3 "Emperor", though just about everyone has something to say here. So far, I'm going to give No.4 to the old Orlando/Philips recording, though their recorded sound isn't as full as some. I wish they would release the whole set. That leaves Nos. 1&5, for which I don't mind having a lot of compares.

An entirely satisfying set has as of yet eluded me. The Auryn and ABQ are almost too good (especially the ABQ), though they are hard to fault. The Alberni's unique sound is a delight, with their primo Strads weaving streams of cotton candy, but they can sometimes be a touch underpowered. The Kodaly just seem to get lost in the mix for me.

I wonder about the Takacs set. Gurn, or Karl, has given the Carmina set high marks. Again, I wonder about the Aeolian. And I really wonder about the Kuijken/Denon.

There, I said it!

[Herman]

There, I said it!

Except no one knows what you actually said, apart from a lot of pleasant free-associative stuff.

[Gurn Blanston]

I am indecisive enough about this to throw it open to the group for input. I need to decide which versions to put into my Complete Haydn set of the following 5 period instrument sets that I have. Frankly, I like them all, although not all for the same reasons. If you have heard any of these and came away with a memory of it, please share here:

Tafelmusik / Weil
Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Kuijken
Hanover Band / Goodman
Orchestra of the 18th Century / Brüggen

I appreciate your input (and yes, it has to be one of these, I ain't gonna buy any more!).




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Now playing:
Trio 1790 - Hob 15 41 Trio in G for Keyboard & Strings 3rd mvmt - Adagio

[SonicMan46]

I am indecisive enough about this to throw it open to the group for input. I need to decide which versions to put into my Complete Haydn set of the following 5 period instrument sets that I have. Frankly, I like them all, although not all for the same reasons. If you have heard any of these and came away with a memory of it, please share here:

Tafelmusik / Weil
Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Kuijken
Hanover Band / Goodman
Orchestra of the 18th Century / Brüggen

I appreciate your input (and yes, it has to be one of these, I ain't gonna buy any more!).

Hello Gurn - first, I'm amazed that I was not already on this thread! 

My only complete set is Adam Fischer, certainly a good 'single' recommendation; but I'd like to acquire a 'period' series, also - I own a half dozen discs of Goodman (cheap @ BRO on Helios) and a couple of discs of Kuijken - can't say that I have a preference, but I do like Goodman - just for my own knowledge, which of these sets are complete and have been released as a BIG box?  Just have not checked lately and now look forward to other comments!

BTW - I had the Dorati box on order (the cheaper version at about $70) at Barnes & Noble, but they crapped out on me, so am still in the market for another complete set!  Dave 

[DavidRoss]

I am indecisive enough about this to throw it open to the group for input. I need to decide which versions to put into my Complete Haydn set of the following 5 period instrument sets that I have. Frankly, I like them all, although not all for the same reasons. If you have heard any of these and came away with a memory of it, please share here:

Tafelmusik / Weil
Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Kuijken
Hanover Band / Goodman
Orchestra of the 18th Century / Brüggen

Sorry, Gurn, I'm not nearly well acquainted enough with any of these to help you in that way.  However, if you decide against Brüggen and wish to dispose of his recordings, you know where to reach me. 

[Que]

I am indecisive enough about this to throw it open to the group for input. I need to decide which versions to put into my Complete Haydn set of the following 5 period instrument sets that I have. Frankly, I like them all, although not all for the same reasons. If you have heard any of these and came away with a memory of it, please share here:

Tafelmusik / Weil
Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Kuijken
Hanover Band / Goodman
Orchestra of the 18th Century / Brüggen

I appreciate your input (and yes, it has to be one of these, I ain't gonna buy any more!).

The top three would be my serious contenders, if pressed Kuijken ultimately drops out of the race. Whether Weil or Harnoncourt/CMW would depend on the individual symphony. I like Weil's lean and mean approach, a lot of fun as well, but Harnoncourt's willfulnes, boldness & gusto and the CMW's more rustic sound can win the day in some symphonies.

Q

[Clever Hans]

I think Kuijken's Paris set, or the big box set which includes them, is pretty darn good, if more contained than Harnoncourt's. It depends on the listener as to which is better. Some people have a problem with Harnoncourt's emphases, although I like his energy and think the approach is warranted specifically for the Paris symphonies.

Bruggen for London Symphonies. I haven't heard Harnoncourt here with the non-period instrument COE.
Bruggen's Paris set is good as well.

Maybe you have it covered, but what about Pinnock Sturm und Drang? No one really matches him there.

Harnoncourt/Concentus for Hornsignal, La Chasse 6-8, etc.

[Gurn Blanston]

Hello Gurn - first, I'm amazed that I was not already on this thread! 

My only complete set is Adam Fischer, certainly a good 'single' recommendation; but I'd like to acquire a 'period' series, also - I own a half dozen discs of Goodman (cheap @ BRO on Helios) and a couple of discs of Kuijken - can't say that I have a preference, but I do like Goodman - just for my own knowledge, which of these sets are complete and have been released as a BIG box?  Just have not checked lately and now look forward to other comments!

BTW - I had the Dorati box on order (the cheaper version at about $70) at Barnes & Noble, but they crapped out on me, so am still in the market for another complete set!  Dave 

Hey, Dave, well, making a choice among all that are out there is pretty damned tough. Those that I li9sted are just my PI ones, of course; I also have Fischer, Dorati, Karajan and probably others dating back from before my PI days. I am pretty sure that i have all the PI ones now though, since Hogwood et al never got that far in their set and I just can't think of any I have missed. I don't have Dorati's whole set, BTW, but they released the Paris ones in a Double Decca years ago and it was among my first Haydn symphonies. There is NO single complete PI cycle, and in fact you can't even put one together from parts since there has never been a PI recording of #79 or 81. Pretty disgusting thought right there...

Sorry, Gurn, I'm not nearly well acquainted enough with any of these to help you in that way.  However, if you decide against Brüggen and wish to dispose of his recordings, you know where to reach me. 

Interesting thought, David. That is a 13 disk set though, and I clearly like the hell out of some of them, so it is hard to see me breaking it up. I do, however, have a disk of Lanner waltzes that I might part with under the right circumstances...

The top three would be my serious contenders, if pressed Kuijken ultimately drops out of the race. Whether Weil or Harnoncourt/CMW would depend on the individual symphony. I like Weil's lean and mean approach, a lot of fun as well, but Harnoncourt's willfulnes, boldness & gusto and the CMW's more rustic sound can win the day in some symphonies.

Q, yes, I am very partial to Weil's version, no getting around it. The first couple times I listened to Harnoncourt I was amazed at the way he took a few things. This was the last set I got, so I already had some idea what every one else was doing. He was not doing that! Very interesting anyway.

Well, I am going to listen some more before making choices. I wouldn't be surprised to see me pick one from each set, and then a second from 1 other set, I guess that one will be the winner...




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Now playing:
Cleveland Orchestra / Szell (1963) - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro