Rautavaara's Riverboat

[Mirror Image]

Does anyone think Rautavaara will compose a ninth symphony? Many people know the "curse of the 9th" already, so I don't need to launch into that.

[Mirror Image]

More or less. Rautavaara has been writing pieces indistinguishable from each other since the early 1970s, and he has admitted that he writes many of his new works by rearranging material from older works (see Sivuoja-Gunaratnam's monograph Narcissus musicus).

Culver, a reviewer on Amazon, who continues to write negative reviews on Rautavaara, has made his high and mighty opinion of Rautavaara known 15 reviews ago. My question is why does somebody who so adamantly dislikes someone's music continue to write reviews on him? It's just a waste of time. If you don't like his music, fine, but there are plenty of others that do, as evidenced by this thread. Do everybody a favor and go back to your hole on Amazon and write your BS reviews while the rest of us here will continue to talk about the music we love.

I realize this post by Culver was written a few years ago, but I couldn't help but to respond to such ignorance.

[Grazioso]

Culver, a reviewer on Amazon, who continues to write negative reviews on Rautavaara, has made his high and mighty opinion of Rautavaara known 15 reviews ago. My question is why does somebody who so adamantly dislikes someone's music continue to write reviews on him? It's just a waste of time. If you don't like his music, fine, but there are plenty of others that do, as evidenced by this thread. Do everybody a favor and go back to your hole on Amazon and write your BS reviews while the rest of us here will continue to talk about the music we love.

I realize this post by Culver was written a few years ago, but I couldn't help but to respond to such ignorance.

I think the hope is that Rautavaara might return to his earlier strengths. I too feel that his music has declined.

[Mirror Image]

I think the hope is that Rautavaara might return to his earlier strengths. I too feel that his music has declined.

Well I like Rautavaara regardless of what style he composes in, so I happily disagree with your opinion.

[ibanezmonster]

I hope he writes a 9th symphony- the 8th is quite a nice one, and it would be nice to hear another piece in a similar style.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I realize this post by Culver was written a few years ago, but I couldn't help but to respond to such ignorance.

Well I'm not exactly a fan of Rautavaara, but noting Culver's comment that "he writes many of his new works by rearranging material from older works" - didn't plenty of composers do that, including some great ones (Bach for instance)?

[Scarpia]

I should listen a bit more, but Rautavaara, in my mind, is classified as an "atmospheric" composer, which I don't usually find myself attracted to.  I normally am most attracted to works with more drive to them.  But that is a superficial impression based on listening to just a few things, and I don't even remember clearly what they were.   But that's also a bad sign. 

[Grazioso]

I should listen a bit more, but Rautavaara, in my mind, is classified as an "atmospheric" composer, which I don't usually find myself attracted to.  I normally am most attracted to works with more drive to them.  But that is a superficial impression based on listening to just a few things, and I don't even remember clearly what they were.   But that's also a bad sign. 

His newer works do tend to sound more amorphous and New-Agey, but try some earlier works, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised: the 3rd symphony, 1st piano concerto, cello concerto, flute concerto, Anadyomene, et al.

[CRCulver]

Culver, a reviewer on Amazon, who continues to write negative reviews on Rautavaara, has made his high and mighty opinion of Rautavaara known 15 reviews ago. My question is why does somebody who so adamantly dislikes someone's music continue to write reviews on him? It's just a waste of time.

The usual bad composer would not deserve much in the way of attention or comment, but Rautavaara is fascinatingly bad. Listening to his music evokes a sort of wonder, "How did he get away with this for so long?"

Also, Rautavaara is often recommended to people who want to find late 20th century music of a tonal, "accessible" nature. And it happens that people listen to his music expecting him to be great, and are ultimately disappointed that it's fluff. Even some of the erstwhile Rautavaara fans who complained about my reviews eventually wrote to me, "Yeah, you're right, I see now there's not much substance there". When you've got a composer who's treated like an universally accessible tonal master, it's good to have a review stating that other, less well-known composers are more likely to offer longterm satisfaction.

Well I'm not exactly a fan of Rautavaara, but noting Culver's comment that "he writes many of his new works by rearranging material from older works" - didn't plenty of composers do that, including some great ones (Bach for instance)?

While Bach rearranged much of his work (usually in writing music for ceremonial use that had to be done fast), he also showed constant invention until the day he died.

Does anyone think Rautavaara will compose a ninth symphony? Many people know the "curse of the 9th" already, so I don't need to launch into that.

In the last interview I saw with him on Finnish television, he said his health was too precarious to write another symphony.

[Mirror Image]

The usual bad composer would not deserve much in the way of attention or comment, but Rautavaara is fascinatingly bad. Listening to his music evokes a sort of wonder, "How did he get away with this for so long?"

Also, Rautavaara is often recommended to people who want to find late 20th century music of a tonal, "accessible" nature. And it happens that people listen to his music expecting him to be great, and are ultimately disappointed that it's fluff. Even some of the erstwhile Rautavaara fans who complained about my reviews eventually wrote to me, "Yeah, you're right, I see now there's not much substance there". When you've got a composer who's treated like an universally accessible tonal master, it's good to have a review stating that other, less well-known composers are more likely to offer longterm satisfaction.

I don't like everything Rautavaara composed, especially in his later works, just like I don't like everything Ravel or Stravinsky composed. People can't possibly like everything written by a composer and, yes, Rautavaara has composed some absolute duds in his lifetime, but I think your reviews of his music are excessive, not only in length, but in quantity. I've read several of your reviews regarding this composer and each time I read them it's as if you got some kind of bone to pick. You're entitled to your opinion, but yours isn't the only one that is valid.

[snyprrr]

bump

[vandermolen]

I like Symphony No 8 'The Journey' it has IMHO a great opening and I find the work genuinely moving and genuinely conveying a sense of journey. I hope that he writes a No 9 but if not I think that No 8 is a fine conclusion to his symphonic cycle. The opening of Symphony No 7 'Angel of Light' is also very powerful.  I like the Piano Concerto No 3 which, oddly, in one section reminded me of the Vaughan Williams Piano Concerto.

[vandermolen]

To give myself the occasional break from compulsive listening to Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony I have been listening to Rautavaara's Piano Concerto No. 3 'Gift of Dreams' - I know that quite a lot of disparaging things are said about Rautavaara's music, but I thought that this was a lovely and often very affecting score.

[Mirror Image]

To give myself the occasional break from compulsive listening to Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony I have been listening to Rautavaara's Piano Concerto No. 3 'Gift of Dreams' - I know that quite a lot of disparaging things are said about Rautavaara's music, but I thought that this was a lovely and often very affecting score.

Me too. In fact, I really enjoyed his concerto Dances with the Winds for flute too. I've enjoyed most of the concertos I've heard from Rautavaara. His Violin Concerto is a very cool piece.

[lescamil]

The Violin Concerto and Piano Concertos No. 2 and 3 are definitely my favorite pieces by Rautavaara, and they're all completely different. However, all three are very beautiful works that I can never get sick of listening to. I hope Rautavaara writes another major instrumental concerto. I heard his two newest concertos, a percussion concerto called "Incantations" and his Cello Concerto No. 2 "Towards the Horizon". I was not impressed at all with the percussion concerto, but I enjoyed the cello concerto and was left wanting another concertante work.

[eyeresist]

Hmm, sounds like I should begin with the concertos.

[Mirror Image]

Hmm, sounds like I should begin with the concertos.

Honestly, that's a tough call to make. For me, there wasn't really any good place to start with Rautavaara. You just have to kind of jump on in. I can't recommend this disc highly enough:

[asin]B0006BGX04[/asin]

[lescamil]

I can say that a good place to begin with Rautavaara is with any of his later works, from after 1995 or so. If you listen to his early works, you might either get the wrong impression of him, or, if you like it, you might be disappointed to see that he moved on from that style. I know I am disappointed to know that he probably won't ever write another piece like his Violin Concerto or Piano Concerto No. 2, or, hell, his Symphony No. 3.

[Mirror Image]

I can say that a good place to begin with Rautavaara is with any of his later works, from after 1995 or so. If you listen to his early works, you might either get the wrong impression of him, or, if you like it, you might be disappointed to see that he moved on from that style. I know I am disappointed to know that he probably won't ever write another piece like his Violin Concerto or Piano Concerto No. 2, or, hell, his Symphony No. 3.

I need to revisit his 3rd, I keep reading that it's one his best or am I thinking about his 4th? I'm sure I've heard it a couple of times, but I need to refresh my memory of it.

[lescamil]

I need to revisit his 3rd, I keep reading that it's one his best or am I thinking about his 4th? I'm sure I've heard it a couple of times, but I need to refresh my memory of it.

The 3rd really is one of his best. It's serial music written to sound like Bruckner. Not being a Bruckner fan at all, I thought I would hate it, but I love that symphony. The 4th symphony is the exact opposite of the 3rd. It actually sounds like an avant-garde work, and it is the thorniest-sounding of the lot. The 3rd symphony is perhaps the most accessible of the ones he wrote in his middle period.