Wagner's Parsifal

[Mandryka]

I have just watched Syberberg's film of Wagner's opera for the third time in my life, and once again I am
confused.

Let's start with one of the more straightforard questions to frame:

Why does Parsifal change turn into a girl?

[Brünnhilde ewig]

Do you think I am very pedantic when I tell you it's Pythia... ?  0:)

Agreeing with Knight: Yes, you are pedantic because Lilas Pastia said this in his message:

Re: Wagner's Parsifal
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2009, 04:31:47 PM » Quote 

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Pythea (pythie in Fench) are not unknown to the opera: In Paris' fabled  Palais Garnier:

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Agreeing with Knight: Yes, you are pedantic because Lilas Pastia said this in his message:

Re: Wagner's Parsifal
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2009, 04:31:47 PM » Quote 

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Pythea (pythie in Fench) are not unknown to the opera: In Paris' fabled  Palais Garnier:

I am not pedantic about the name, but about the spelling...

[duncan]

But don't forget the waiting list and ticket prices. I don't think those are irrelevant distractions 

I've only been waiting for three years, so I've no idea how distracting the ticket price will be when I finally make it to the top of the list!

[knight66]

Refreshingly honest, as usual. 

Why officer, what do you mean?  0:)

Mike

[Lilas Pastia]

I've only been waiting for three years, so I've no idea how distracting the ticket price will be when I finally make it to the top of the list!

How does it work? You find out the cost when the call from on high comes ?

[Anne]

"And now on with Parsifal, whose prelude to Act 3 is one of Wagner's greatest, in my opinion. I don't think anyone has been able to express wandering, striving and suffering through life as wonderfully as Wagner did in that music."

Thank you, Jezetha.  I now have something to hang my hat on when I listen to that music.

[Haffner]

Do you think I am very pedantic when I tell you it's Pythia... ?  0:)

And now on with Parsifal, whose prelude to Act 3 is one of Wagner's greatest, in my opinion. I don't think anyone has been able to express wandering, striving and suffering through life as wonderfully as Wagner did in that music.

So true! And well put. The entire act is awe-inspiring, my favorite "part" is Gurnemanz's ejaculation: "Oh Gnade! Hochstes Heil!....". For me, it's the real climax of the opera.

Of course, that fact doesn't take anything away from the awe-inspiring finale.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

So true! And well put. The entire act is awe-inspiring, my favorite "part" is Gurnemanz's ejaculation: "Oh Gnade! Hochstes Heil!....". For me, it's the real climax of the opera.

Of course, that fact doesn't take anything away from the awe-inspiring finale.

For me the highest point is Gurnemanz's 'Da die entsündigte Natur heut' ihren Unschuldstag erwirbt', in the Good Friday Music. I'm always in tears at that moment, because I sense Wagner finally attaining peace, within himself and with the world, after an enormously long journey. I think only a few artists have reached that transcendent point. I can think of Sophocles (in 'Oedipus at Colonus'), Rembrandt, Shakespeare ('Winter's Tale'), Beethoven (late quartets, late sonatas, the Ninth Symphony, the Diabelli Variations, the Missa Solemnis), ergo: the usual suspects of the Western Canon.

[Haffner]

For me the highest point is Gurnemanz's 'Da die entsündigte Natur heut' ihren Unschuldstag erwirbt', in the Good Friday Music. I'm always in tears at that moment, because I sense Wagner finally attaining peace, within himself and with the world, after an enormously long journey. I think only a few artists have reached that transcendent point. I can think of Sophocles (in 'Oedipus at Colonus'), Rembrandt, Shakespeare ('Winter's Tale'), Beethoven (late quartets, late sonatas, the Ninth Symphony, the Diabelli Variations, the Missa Solemnis), ergo: the usual suspects of the Western Canon.

Those are very good examples. But I'd add the prelude to Act I of Lohengrin. Peace that seems unified with the higher (whatever the higher is for anyone).

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Those are very good examples. But I'd add the prelude to Act I of Lohengrin. Peace that seems unified with the higher (whatever the higher is for anyone).

That is indeed a glorious piece of music, and it lives in the same 'space' which Parsifal only reaches at the end. BUT - it's literally 'top-down'. Wagner has not yet 'earned' this transcendence. In a sort of visionary foreshadowing or anticipation he writes the music he, in a sense, 'is' in the Finale of his own life.

[ChamberNut]

I need to listen to Parsifal again.  I really thought it was the Prelude to Act I that was the real humdinger for me, not Act III.  0:)

[Haffner]

That is indeed a glorious piece of music, and it lives in the same 'space' which Parsifal only reaches at the end. BUT - it's literally 'top-down'. Wagner has not yet 'earned' this transcendence. In a sort of visionary foreshadowing or anticipation he writes the music he, in a sense, 'is' in the Finale of his own life.

This is very well thought out and written. It will also make listening to these pieces even more fun next time. I am very grateful.

[Haffner]

I need to listen to Parsifal again.  I really thought it was the Prelude to Act I that was the real humdinger for me, not Act III.  0:)

All three preludes are awe-inspiring. The first act is more like your guided entry into the Realm. The second is kinda heavy metal (in that inimitably cool, Wagner style).

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

All three preludes are awe-inspiring. The first act is more like your guided entry into the Realm. The second is kinda heavy metal (in that inimitably cool, Wagner style).

I ought to go to bed, but not before this: I always see Klingsor as a popstar with a microphone when he sings, rather self-pityingly (after being taunted by Kundry):

Ungebändigten Sehnens Pein,
schrecklichster Triebe Höllendrang,
den ich zum Todesschweigen mir zwang...

Don't know why!

[Haffner]

I ought to go to bed, but not before this: I always see Klingsor as a popstar with a microphone when he sings, rather self-pityingly (after being taunted by Kundry):

Ungebändigten Sehnens Pein,
schrecklichster Triebe Höllendrang,
den ich zum Todesschweigen mir zwang...

Don't know why!

I love it  !!! the rock star with his magic mirror.

[Coopmv]

The only Parsifal I will get is the Karajan's version on CD.  I have had the LP version for over 20 years.  Unfortunately, the usual pops and clicks from LP really mar the excellent performance.  I also enjoyed my Kubelik's version on CD ...

[Haffner]

The only Parsifal I will get is the Karajan's version on CD.  I have had the LP version for over 20 years.  Unfortunately, the usual pops and clicks from LP really mar the excellent performance.  I also enjoyed my Kubelik's version on CD ...

Those are two terrific versions. I actually liked the Amfortas from the Karajan more than the Kubelik. Otherwise, the Kubelik is outstanding. Great voices, superbly recorded.

[jlaurson]

On Parsifal:

Domingo Notwithstanding, This Is Thielemann's Parsifal
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/05/domingo-notwithstanding-this-is.html

Age hardly seems to slow Plácido Domingo down; instead, he seems invigorated by his numerous duties and continuous love for music. It should be little surprise that the tireless tenor is featured on two releases this month; Puccini's early work Edgar and, more notably, a live Parsifal from Vienna – both for Deutsche Grammophon. It also isn't surprising that that recording from June last year prominently uses Domingo in its marketing, his name on the cover in as big a font as that of the actual star, conductor Christian Thielemann. Ironically, this Parsifal is hardly notable because of Domingo (and indeed some may say it is notable despite him)...

Redemption the Redeemer
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/redemption-redeemer.html

A Parsifal at Bayreuth is always an event. Wagner's Bühnenweihfestspiel is—together with the Ring—the most important opera on the "Green Hill" in Bayreuth, and this year the direction of the new production fell to the hands of opera neophyte Christoph Schlingensief. In a response to (just) criticism about his autocratic and inflexible leadership, Wolfgang Wagner (the master's grandson and brother of the wonderful director Wieland) surprised Wagnerites by handing the 2004 Parsifal and the 2005 Ring to relatively young newcomers to the world of opera: theater director Schlingensief and filmmaker Lars von Trier (Zentropa, Dancer in the Dark, Dogville), respectively. The latter, very unfortunately, gave up on the daunting project, apologizing for not feeling that he would be up to the challenge. Schlingensief, infamous for having staged a Hamlet in Zurich with a cast made up entirely of neo-Nazis, however, did pull his vision through and succeeded.

The Kirov's Parsifal May Have No Pulse, but Wagner Survives
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/02/kirovs-parsifal-may-have-no-pulse-but.html

Parsifal is an opera great, grand, glorious, weird, absurd in equal measures. Add daunting, challenging, difficult, transporting, and long. There are those whom nothing can stop from attending a performance thereof, or those whom nothing can convince to endure five hours of Wagner's final musical statement – and few between those two extremes. Should it have been surprising – or natural – that the Kennedy Center's Opera House was very well filled on a Tuesday evening at 6PM? Or should it have been astonishing – or expected – that it wasn't sold out? ...

Wagner on Record - A Holy Fool in East Germany
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=410

Herbert Kegel was not known for Wagner interpretations when he performed and recorded this Parsifal in the Congress Hall of Leipzig in January of 1975. Edel Classics has just re-issued the GDR Eterna recording of that performances for the second time. In 2005 it became available as a super-budget edition on their "Reference" line. Now it comes in a deluxe edition with full libretto, an essay, extensive bios, all in a very sturdy box, and – astonishingly – scarcely more expensive than before...

Easter Pilgrimage - Parisfal [sic!]
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=305

Easter – the word – and the Easter Bunny have at its root the Nordic goddess of fertility Ostara, via the German "Ostern". Or so we are told by the Angle-Saxon missionary Beda. The Brothers Grimm took that tale up because it came with an irresistible story: Happening upon a poor bird whose wings were frozen to its body, Ostara saved the poor creature by turning it into a bunny. Having been a bird, it got to continue laying eggs. Those who follow reviews of new Wagner productions around the world will have heard about Christoph Schlingensief's Bayreuth Parsifal (2004 – 2007). It was controversial, of course, and intriguing. Criticism and intrigue seemed to have the same source: that this Parsifal had symbolism poured over it by the bucket; among them also a decomposing bunny...

indirectly related:
Bayreuth After Wolfgang

If Munich's annual Opernfestspiele is the largest opera festival in Europe, and Salzburg the most glamorous, the Bayreuth festival (just two hours to the north of Munich and conveniently without overlapping) is the most iconic. Munich can boast with quantity and variety (46 performances in 34 days, 20 different operas), Salzburg with location and star power. "The Green Hill" in Bayreuth meanwhile is the nexus of all things Wagner. The annual point of pilgrimage for Wagnerians around the world has even near mystical qualities... a fact to which the eight year waiting list for tickets contributes.

Do You Love Wagner?

For all my love of Wagner, I am not a Wagnerian. For starters, I think that Tristan & Isolde, not Parsifal, is his best opera; I inexplicably find Siegfried and Das Rheingold more interesting than Die Walküre. I don't consider everything about Wagner and his music as operatic ex cathedra statements. And I am fine with the use of the word "Opera" when (casually) talking about Wagner's work.

[Sergeant Rock]

On Parsifal:
Domingo Notwithstanding, This Is Thielemann's Parsifal

Must....resist...  I did resist three years ago when I first read your review but it's even harder now. I really don't need another Parsifal (already own Solti, Karajan, Boulez, Barenboim, Levine and Knapp '64) but Thielemann's way with the score does intrigue.

Sarge