Wagner's Parsifal

Started by rubio, August 31, 2008, 05:43:48 AM

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Haffner

#20
September 06, 2008, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: Guido on September 06, 2008, 11:00:06 AM
What are people's thoughts on the 1951 Knappertsbusch recording of Parsifal? I have heard great things about this one.


Very good. You'll have to live with the sound though, which isn't very good. Great singing, and to this day I wonder whether this really was the perfect tempo for the piece as a whole.

Dancing Divertimentian

#21
September 06, 2008, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: AndyD. on September 06, 2008, 02:15:45 PM

Very good. You'll have to live with the sound though, which isn't very good. Great singing, and to this day I wonder whether this really was the perfect tempo for the piece as a whole.

Agreed, the cast is excellent. It is regrettable the orchestra isn't caught with more fullness and clarity - it would really add to the urgency of the performance (constraints of the technology).

I still favor the relatively quicker pace and fuller sound of Kna's 1962. Interestingly, Kna is a full twenty minutes longer in 1951.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Que

#22
September 07, 2008, 01:47:14 AM
I'm fond of the '51 recording, mainly because of the cast (I'm not hot on Jess Thomas).

Any thoughts here on Kna '54?



Hans Hotter (Bass Baritone - Amfortas)
Theo Adam (Bass Baritone - Titurel)
Josef Greindl (Bass - Gurnemanz)
Wolfgang Windgassen (Tenor - Parsifal)
Gustav Neidlinger (Bass - Klingsor)
Martha Mödl (Mezzo Soprano - Kundry)
Eugene Tobin (Tenor - 1st Knight)

Q

PSmith08

#23
September 07, 2008, 07:41:14 PM
I can't speak to the '54 set, but I can speak to the issue of Jess Thomas. I'm not a fan. He's not bad, but he's clearly the one point to be discussed in an otherwise flawless set. To my mind, that issue is solved by the 1964 set, which has Jon Vickers' only Parsifal. The problem with '64 is that it's mono, which, then, presents one point to be discussed.

I'll say this, in my view, Knappertsbusch's 1964 represents the perfect storm: a perfect cast, a band that knew the material, a conductor with a solid grasp on the score, and the Festspielhaus acoustic. Knappertsbusch had 12 years to work on Parsifal on the Green Hill (Krauss had it in 1953), and, accordingly, at least in my mind, the '64 recording represents the high point. 

Dancing Divertimentian

#24
September 07, 2008, 09:01:08 PM
Has anyone had an opportunity to hear Levine's Parsifal recording from Bayreuth? Any thoughts?



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

bricon

#25
September 07, 2008, 09:49:14 PM
Quote from: donwyn on September 07, 2008, 09:01:08 PM
Has anyone had an opportunity to hear Levine's Parsifal recording from Bayreuth? Any thoughts?


The discs make great drink coasters.

Quite possibly the worst recording (of anything) in my collection.

Todd

#26
September 08, 2008, 05:54:51 AM
Quote from: bricon on September 07, 2008, 09:49:14 PMThe discs make great drink coasters.


Not a bad assessment.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Sergeant Rock

#27
September 08, 2008, 06:38:39 AM
Quote from: donwyn on September 07, 2008, 09:01:08 PM
Has anyone had an opportunity to hear Levine's Parsifal recording from Bayreuth? Any thoughts?





Own it but haven't listened to it yet: At my age, I'm not sure I have enough time left to make it through to the end anyway  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning

#28
September 08, 2008, 06:43:53 AM
Quote from: donwyn on September 07, 2008, 09:01:08 PM
Has anyone had an opportunity to hear Levine's Parsifal recording from Bayreuth? Any thoughts?

Haven't listened to it yet. When I have, I'm not sure that my opinion will count  8)

Dancing Divertimentian

#29
September 08, 2008, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 08, 2008, 06:38:39 AM
Own it but haven't listened to it yet: At my age, I'm not sure I have enough time left to make it through to the end anyway  ;D

Sarge

;) ;D

At 44 I'd better take that to heart! ;D




Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Dancing Divertimentian

#30
September 08, 2008, 04:54:48 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on September 08, 2008, 06:43:53 AM
Haven't listened to it yet. When I have, I'm not sure that my opinion will count  8)

Oh, but I'm sure it'd be one heck of a review! ;D



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Haffner

#31
September 08, 2008, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: donwyn on September 08, 2008, 04:54:48 PM
Oh, but I'm sure it'd be one heck of a review! ;D







I'd be very interested as well.

Dancing Divertimentian

#32
September 08, 2008, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: AndyD. on September 08, 2008, 04:59:20 PM
I'd be very interested as well.

A review from Karl would be interesting, no doubt...but I'm not sure it would be palatable to many Wagnerians. ;D



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

max

#33
September 08, 2008, 09:42:55 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 08, 2008, 06:38:39 AM
Own it but haven't listened to it yet: At my age, I'm not sure I have enough time left to make it through to the end anyway  ;D

Sarge

Its ending would qualify as one of the very greatest representation in art of an After Death experience, that is, if God is on YOUR side!

max

#34
September 08, 2008, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: donwyn on September 08, 2008, 05:46:41 PM
A review from Karl would be interesting, no doubt...but I'm not sure it would be palatable to many Wagnerians. ;D

Anyone who thinks of Wagner as 46th on the list of composers, I would think not. If one would grant him as one of the top ten Karl would think of him as nothing but another vulgar Wagnerian!

Sergeant Rock

#35
September 09, 2008, 04:05:17 AM
Quote from: max on September 08, 2008, 09:42:55 PM
....that is, if God is on YOUR side!

There are reasons for me to worry about that  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning

#36
September 09, 2008, 04:17:57 AM
Quote from: donwyn on September 08, 2008, 04:54:48 PM
Oh, but I'm sure it'd be one heck of a review! ;D

You are all (well, most of you, anyway) kind!  ;)

I may give it a shot soon.

karlhenning

#37
September 09, 2008, 04:19:15 AM
Quote from: max on September 08, 2008, 09:59:09 PM
Anyone who thinks of Wagner as 46th on the list of composers, I would think not. If one would grant him as one of the top ten Karl would think of him as nothing but another vulgar Wagnerian!

Oh, not at all;  many people whose musical opinion I very much respect, rank Wagner thus highly.

Mark

#38
September 09, 2008, 04:47:49 AM
My contribution to this thread will be very slight.

I just realised yesterday that Wagner quotes the beautiful opening/close of the first movement of Mendelssohn's 'Reformation' Symphony (No. 5) in Parsifal. Forgive me, but not being an opera buff, I forget in which part. :-[ I'll have to look it up and report back.

Wendell_E

#39
September 09, 2008, 05:53:35 AM
Quote from: Mark on September 09, 2008, 04:47:49 AM
My contribution to this thread will be very slight.

I just realised yesterday that Wagner quotes the beautiful opening/close of the first movement of Mendelssohn's 'Reformation' Symphony (No. 5) in Parsifal. Forgive me, but not being an opera buff, I forget in which part. :-[ I'll have to look it up and report back.

Actually, both Mendelssohn and Wagner are quoting the famous "Dresden Amen":  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_amen
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain
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