GMG Classical Music Forum

Zappa . . . green things in general.

I'm going to be very honest with you.

I have never heard of any of these albums.

I vaguely remember Freak Out and its successor (though not its title).

So I would have to vote All of the Above.

In my head I have been hearing Carl Perkins' 'Right String Wrong Yoyo' a lot these days, irritatingly and amusing at the same time, but somehow it didn't make your list.

I haven't heard enough to vote. Maybe James will vote.

Quote from: Herman on January 06, 2009, 05:35:33 AM
I'm going to be very honest with you.

I have never heard of any of these albums.

I vaguely remember Freak Out and its successor (though not its title).

Absolutely Free (FWIW)

who is Zappa?

Quote from: ezodisy on January 06, 2009, 08:51:10 AM
who is Zappa?

There you go. (http://zappa.com/whatsnew/index.html)

Quote from: ezodisy on January 06, 2009, 08:51:10 AM
who is Zappa?

Shirley, you jest.

not really, i only know him by name. Seems he made a lot of lowly albums if the above is anything to go by. Let me know which is the highest of them and I'll try it. Thanks Karl. Nice hair

He plays guitar like a mofo.  8)

Quote from: ezodisy on January 06, 2009, 09:19:02 AM
Seems he made a lot of lowly albums if the above is anything to go by.

Those are ten albums out of 70.  (Just to point out the potential errors of judging from too little information.)

Quote from: karlhenning on January 06, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
Those are ten albums out of 70.  (Just to point out the potential errors of judging from too little information.)

:-*

From the June 1968 Hit Parader (http://www.zappa.com/fz/interviews/006_19680600.html)

QuoteAlthough the Mothers have been in existence for about three years, the project was carefully planned about four and a half years ago. I had been looking for the right people for a long time. I was in advertising before I got into...ha... show business. I'd done a little motivational research. One of the laws of economics is that if there is a demand, somebody ought to supply that demand and they'll get rich. I composed a composite, gap-filling product that fills most of the gaps between so called serious music and the so-called popular music. Next, I needed my own group to present this music to the public. The group that was to become the Mothers was working in the Broadside, a little bar in Pomona, California.

Jim Black, the drummer, had just come to California from Kansas. He got together with Roy Estrada, the bass player. They'de been working terrible jobs in Orange County, which is a bad place to live unless you belong to the John Birch Society. They got a band together with Ray Hunt on guitar, Dave Coronado on sax and Ray Collins as lead vocalist. They called themselves the Soul Giants and they were doing straight commercial rhythm and blues "Gloria," "Louie, Louie," you got it. Then Ray Hunt decided he didn't like Ray Collins and started playing the wrong changes behind him when he was singing. A fight ensued, Ray Hunt decided to quit, the band needed a guitar player, so they called me up. I started working with them at the Broadside, I thought they sounded pretty good. I said, "Okay, you guys, I've got this plan. We're going to get rich. You probably won't beleive this now, but if you just bear with me we'll go out and do it." Davie Coronado said, "No. I don't want to do it. We'd never be able to get any work if we played that kind of music. I've got a job in a bowling alley in La Puene, and I think I'm gonna split." So he did. I think he's got a band now called Davie Coronado and his Sagebrush Ramblers or something like that.

There were four original Mothers - Ray Collins, Jim Black, Roy Estrada and myself. We starved for about ten months because we were playing a type of music that was grossly unpopular in that area. They couldn't identify with it. So we got into the habit of insulting the audience. We made a big reputation that way. Nobody came to hear us play, they came in to see how much abuse they could take. They were very masochistic. They loved it. We managed to get jobs on that basis but it didn't last very long because we'd eventually wind up abusing the owner of the club. Then we decided we were going to the big city - Los Angeles - which was about thirty miles away. We had added a girl to the group, Alice Stuart. She played guitar very well and sang well. 1 had an idea for combining certain modal influences into our basically country blues sound. We were playing a lot of Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf-type stuff. Alice played good finger-style guitar, but she-couldn't play "Louie, Louie," so I fired her. Then we got Henry Vestine who is one of the most outstanding blues guitarists on any coast. He's really a monster. He was part of the group for quite some time. But our music kept getting progressively stranger and he couldn't identify with what we were doing and he wanted his freedom, so we said, 'Goodbye, Henry' and he split. He's in Canned Heat now.

Then Ray, the lead vocalist, quit and there were three Mothers. We hired Jim Guercio, who now manages Chad & Jeremy and produces records for the Buckinghams. He was part of our group for a while. Also, somewhere along the line, we had hired Steve Mann, who is also one of the top blues guitarists on the West Coast. He wanted to play in the group but he couldn't make the changes and we got rid of him. Then we hired Elliot Ingber and Ray came back in the band and there were five Mothers. We cut our first album with those five- Rag, Roy, Jim, Elliot and myself. Tom Wilson, who was producing records for MGM at the time, came to the Whiskey A-Go-Go while we were a five-piece group, while Henry Vestine was still with us. He heard us sing "The Watts Riot Song (Trouble Every Day)." He stayed for five minutes, said "Yeah, yeah, yeah," slapped me on the back, shook my hand and said, "Wonderful. We're gonna make a record of you. Goodbye." I didn't see him again for four months. He thought we were a rhythm and blues band. He probably went back to New York and said, "I signed me another rhythm and blues band from the Coast. They got this song about the riot. It's a protest song. They'll do a couple of singles and maybe they'll die out".

He came back to town just before we were going to do our first recording session. We had a little chat in his room and that was when he first discovered that that wasn't all that we played. Things started changing. We decided not to make a single, we'd make an album instead. He wouldn't give me an idea of what the budget would be for the album, but the average rock and roll album costs about $5,000. The start-to-finish cost of FREAK OUT was somewhere around $21,000. The first tune we cut was "Any Way The Wind Blows." Unfortunately, it's a bad mix, but the track is really good. Then we did "Who Are The Brain Police?" When Wilson heard those he was so impressed he got on the phone and called New York, and as a result I got a more or less unlimited budget to do this monstrosity. The next day I had whipped up the arrangements for a twenty-two piece orchestra. It wasn't just a straight orchestra accompanying the singers. It was the Mothers five-piece band plus seventeen pieces. We all worked together. The editing took a long time, which ran the cost up.

Meanwhile, Wilson was sticking his neck out. He laid his job on the line by producing the album. MGM felt that they had spent too much money on the album and they were about to let it die, but it started selling all over the place. Like, they'd sell forty copies in some little town the size of a pumpkin in Wyoming. We sold five thousand albums all over the country with no extra-hype or anything. Finally the company started pushing the album and sales went even higher. We went to Hawaii right after the album was completed and we worked over there. Then we came back and worked with Andy Warhol at the Trip. It was the show that closed the Trip, as they say. Then we went to San Francisco and played around there and finally...uh...Elliot had to be fired and there were five. Just before we fired Elliot we had a six-piece band because we had hired Billy Mundi and we had two drummers. Then we hired Don Preston, who plays keyboard instruments - electric piano, electric clavichord, etc. We also hired Bunk Gardner who plays several various horns, and Jim Fielder on bass. I had known Don Preston and Bunk Gardner several years before I met the other guys. We used to play experimental music a long time ago. We got together in garages and went through some very abstract charts and just entertained ourselves. Anyway, we finally had a very workable ensemble. The second album was recorded with those eight guys. We just added a trumpet, string quartet and contrabass clarinet on one song.

The instrumentation of the ideal Mothers rock and roll band is two piccolos, two flutes, two bass flutes, two oboes, English horn, three bassoons, a contrabassoon, four clarinets (with the fourth player doubling on alto clarinet), bass clarinet, contrabass clarinet, soprano, alto, tenor, baritone and bass saxophones, four trumpets, four French horns, three trombones, one bass trombone, one tuba, one contrabass tuba, two harps, two keyboard men playing piano, electric piano, electric harpsichord, electric clavichord, Hammond organ, celeste, and piano bass, ten first violins, ten second violins, eight violas, six cellos, four string bass, four percussionists playing twelve timpani, chimes, gongs, field drums, bass drums, snare drums, woodblocks lion's roar, vibes, xylophone and marimba three electric guitars, one electric 12-string guitar, electric bass and electric bass guitar and two drummers at sets, plus vocalists who play tambourines. And I won't be happy until I have it. I think people are entitled to hear that kind of music live. Kids would go to concerts if they could hear music that knocked them out. If the concert halls would change to a more modern programming, they would find the place crawling with kids. Something like this won't happen overnight and I know it. But I've studied my audiences carefully enough to see that we're making some headway in that direction. Many people sit and listen to us because they pretend they can't dance to our music. That's total bull. I'm nearly an epileptic and I can make it. Those people don't sit because they enjoy the music. They're just waiting to find out if they like the music. It doesn't sound like what they've been used to hearing. They want to get their ears accustomed to it. It's not "psychedelic." I asked a nightclub owner what psychedelic music was. "It's loud out-of-tune crazy music," he told me, "You can't understand it." Our music is fairly logical.

Our spontaneous outbursts are planned. They have to be. If you take an 8-piece band and not direct them, you'll have "psychedelic" music. We rehearse an average of twelve hours on each song. We learn them in sections. There's the front part, then interlude A, interlude B, and so forth, and the band has to remember certain cues for each section. Each set that we do is conceived of as one continuous piece of music, like an opera. Even the dialogue between numbers is part of it. Some of our sets run an hour and a half, when we get carried away. That's about opera length. A better description of what we're doing might be a theatrical presentation with music. This summer I'd like to present a show on Broadway. It's a musical, science fiction horror story based on the Lenny Bruce trials. He was a friend of mine, and of our manager. Lenny was a saint. What the Big Machine of America did to Lenny Bruce was pretty disgusting. It ranks with civil rights as one of the big pimples on the face of American culture. But nobody will ever really find out about it, I guess.

The first album, Freak Out, I didn't find a greatly rewarding experience of itself;  more a "this is how it started" illustration.  The seeds for musical ambition (such as his was) were already there, but, as one might expect, Zappa worked with whom he could . . . doo-wop, R&B folks. (All the same, to be sure, Zappa had a fondness for doo-wop and R&B, himself.)  The entire Absolutely Free album, though, sheds the baggage of 'tracks to promote for possible radio play', and each side of the original LP is organized as a montage.  Musically, although Zappa made creative practical use of the musicians in the Mothers within their musical range — and throughout his career, and no matter how technically proficient the individual, Zappa had a talent for demanding a little extra — Absolutely Free strains at the leash of, well, garage-band technical limitations.  (The second album is helped by the addition of Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were reasonably notation-literate.)

It's a bit telling that, for the third album, We're Only In It For the Money, Zappa ramps up the musical ambitions (and transcends the technical limitations) by editing and engineering;  this album was mixed, edited, sliced and diced at (IIRC) Apostolic Studios in New York, which at the time had 'the edge' in mixing facilities (a prototype Scully twelve-track recorder, e.g.)  For most of the rhythmically tricky/vigorous numbers ("Flower Punk," e.g.) all the various vocal layers are Zappa's voice, passed through various filters and modifiers . . . as he must have found it easier just to do it himself, rather than try to teach Ray Collins by rote.

In between We're Only In It For the Money and Uncle Meat, two musicians with solid technique joined, Ian Underwood and Ruth Komanoff (who later became Mrs Underwood).  And, as it turns out, most of the tracks on Uncle Meat which fired my own musical imagination when I first heard the album, rely heavily on Ruth's mallets, and Ian's divers woodwinds.

Uncle Meat is the earliest Zappa album I will repeatedly listen to.  The earlier stuff is fun but dated.

Its still hard to beat Hot Rats though

Quote from: bwv 1080 on January 07, 2009, 12:28:12 PM
Uncle Meat is the earliest Zappa album I will repeatedly listen to.  The earlier stuff is fun but dated.

Yes, it doesn't wear quite so well. Uncle Meat is indeed the goods.

Quote from: bwv 1080Its still hard to beat Hot Rats though.

That, One Size Fits All, Weasels Ripped My Flesh . . . and quite a few of the later live albums . . . always fall fresh by my ears.

"Moggio" is a great little number, very tight recording on Vol. V of YCDTOSA (is there another?).  "The Black Page" is fine, of almost more interest is how he tweaked the accompaniment from time to time.

Third time of asking:

Quote from: ' on January 08, 2009, 01:27:48 AM
And I am curious why this isn't in the composer thread.'

I am curious why this is a question  ;)

In brief:

1.  Jazz and popular music (e.g.) are considered suited to The Diner rather than The Music Room, per se.

2.  When I browse at the Borders on School Street or the Newbury Comics in Faneuil Hall, Zappa is filed not among Classical Music, but in Rock.

3.  To a degree, your protest query makes sense, considering that (a) Zappa did some formal music study at Antelope Junior College, (b) creative and apt writing for orchestral instruments was one element in his musical toolkit, and (c) Nicolas Slonimsky was quite favorably impressed by a score (or two?) which Zappa showed him on the occasion they met.

4.  But . . . how do we make the case that he is to considered a 'classical composer' rather than an unusually literate pop bandleader/performer/writer?

Quote from: ' on January 07, 2009, 05:01:54 PM
I have always found Sofa arresting. It's one of the Zappa tunes that with a few tweaks could be turned into a hit song . . . .

I've always loved the warm sound of the One Size Fits All "Sofas" (with that mellifluous Moog bass).

Have you heard the historical curiosity which is the Dec '71 live recording of "Sofa" on Vol. I of YCDTOSA?

Confession time:  I have not, so far as I am aware, ever heard a single note of Frank Zappa.   :'(

I am curious to give him a try, but 70 + albums is enough to make one's eyes glaze over.  Where to start?  Are there 2 or 3 albums that might serve as a good introduction?

Quote from: jwinter on January 08, 2009, 07:23:41 AM
Confession time:  I have not, so far as I am aware, ever heard a single note of Frank Zappa.   :'(

I am curious to give him a try, but 70 + albums is enough to make one's eyes glaze over.  Where to start?  Are there 2 or 3 albums that might serve as a good introduction?

My 2 or 3 suggestions:

Hot Rats
One Size Fits All
The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life

His most commercial may be Overnite Sensation and Apostrophe; his most popular anyway.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 08, 2009, 07:03:53 AM
4.  But . . . how do we make the case that he is to considered a 'classical composer' rather than an unusually literate pop bandleader/performer/writer?

Hey, if Laura Pausini can be in the Classical forum...  ::)

Quote from: Corey on January 08, 2009, 07:34:09 AM
Hey, if Laura Pausini can be in the Classical forum...  ::)

You had to go there, Corey!  ;)

Quote from: ' on January 08, 2009, 07:41:49 AM
Yes, I think I prefer it. It could be No 1 (with a bullet).'

The Mark Volman/Howard Kaylan band leaves me with mixed feelings (speaking purely musically, I mean).

Quote from: ' on January 08, 2009, 07:52:57 AM
Because he has such a big and convincing foot in the classical world. Where would we put him if we only knew the Nagano, Boulez, Yellow Shark, Royal Philharmonic, Lumpy Gravy orch stuff, 200 Motels with the LA phil and Mehta, etc.

I think we have different ideas of a big foot here.  That still seems to me quite a minor player, classical-wise (though of course a recording with Ensemble InterContemporain is An Event) . . . and small footprint compared to his pop domain.

Quote from: 'I don't shop there, but I certainly find the Boulez and Columbia classical things in classical, in-store and on-line
Plus aforementioned recordings/performances  (Mehta, Nagano, Boulez, et al)

He did cross boundaries, which in turn makes for untidy marketing decisions . . . when I have seen the Boulez and LSO discs, they've been in pop trough along with Joe's Garage and Jazz from Hell.

Quote from: 'You might be amused to look at Slonimsky's various Baker's entries on Zappa over the years. His opinion evolved.  Nick changed his tune over the years (after he played with the band?)

That would be an interesting read!  All I've read (from the Slonimsky side) is chapter 23 "The Age of Absurdity" in Perfect Pitch.

I don't really have a tidy answer, and your points are fair.  Except that I think we are all grateful that Zappa never pulled a "Liverpool Oratorio" on us.

Quote from: ' on January 08, 2009, 07:55:39 AM
Ah, but Billy the Mountain has such a delightful, well developed use of leitmotif: Billy, Ethyl, the Tonight Show theme'

It's kind of a mess, but it's an unfailingly entertaining mess.  Some say he looked like Zubin Mehta . . . .

Quote

Quote from: bwv 1080Uncle Meat is the earliest Zappa album I will repeatedly listen to.  The earlier stuff is fun but dated.

Yes, it doesn't wear quite so well. Uncle Meat is indeed the goods.

Quote from: bwv 1080It's still hard to beat Hot Rats though.

That, One Size Fits All, Weasels Ripped My Flesh . . . and quite a few of the later live albums . . . always fall fresh by my ears.

Also Waka/Jawaka and Grand Wazoo.  (Though these each have song-tracks which I tend to want to skip.)

G. W. seemed to me insufficient, in a sense, though:  You see all these musicians in the credits, yet by the clock, they don't make a good proportional appearance at all over the course of the 37-minute album (an annoyingly brief compact disc, too, it must be owned).  The full complement of this version of the band, then, loomed larger in legend than in released recording.

At Newbury Comics one day, I chanced on a disc released since Zappa's passing, Imaginary Diseases . . . from a tour not of the Grand Wazoo, but of the trimmed-back Petite Wazoo.  Unlike G.W., and truer to (say) Make a Jazz Noise Here, all the guest wind players have a higher profile on Imaginary Diseases (a title, as Dave can tell us, drawn from "Stinkfoot").

In 2007, Barfko-Swill (that is so Zappa) released Zappa/Wazoo, live performances of the Grand W . . . .

Quote from: John Adams
. . . There seems to be a quality issue with Zappa's serious music that cannot be gotten around.

Is there more to follow this? This seems like a lead-in.

Was Freak Out! a "best-seller," really?

Roster on Zappa/Wazoo:

QuoteFZ: guitar and white stick with cork handle
Tony Duran: slide guitar
Ian Underwood: piano and synthesizer
Dave Parlato: bass
Jerry Kessler: electric cello
Jim Gordon: electric drums
Mike Altschul: piccolo, bass clarinet and other winds
Jay Migliori: flute, tenor sax and other winds
Earle Dumler: oboe, contrabass sarrusophone and other winds
Ray Reed: clarinet, tenor sax and other winds
Charles Owens: soprano sax, alto sax and other winds
Joann McNab: bassoon
Malcolm McNab: trumpet in D
Sal Marquez: trumpet in Bb
Tom Malone: trumpet in Bb, also tuba
Glenn Ferris: trombone and euphonium
Kenny Shroyer: trombone and baritone horn
Bruce Fowler: trombone of the upper atmosphere
Tom Raney: vibes and electric percussion
Ruth Underwood: marimba and electric percussion

Zappa confluentus is a goby... (http://www.zappa.com/fz/randomonium/index.html)

(I noticed that Jn Adams used the tired-out m-word.)

Jn Adams?

Quote from: Dr. Dread on January 08, 2009, 11:32:53 AM
Jn Adams?

In this post of James's (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10511.msg261555.html#msg261555)

Quote from: karlhenning on January 08, 2009, 11:35:13 AM
In this post of James's (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10511.msg261555.html#msg261555)

:-[

Quote from: mn dave on January 08, 2009, 07:31:07 AM
His most commercial may be Overnite Sensation and Apostrophe; his most popular anyway.

Not at all to discount your suggestion(s), mon vieux . . . they do raise one of the cruces of the biscuit, as it were.

In the excerpt James offered, we find Jn Adams writing something of a conflicted tribute, in part because of the 'appeal to the eternal six-year-old in all of us' (though what a 6-year-old makes of the G-spot, is anyone's guess).

Some music-lovers I know, who might from a purely sonic standpoint be game to give Zappa a chance, would find potty-mouth lyrics (at random example, "Fem-Bot in a Wet T-Shirt" from Joe's Garage, say) off-putting.

Just another Zappigraphical consideration . . . .

Quote from: karlhenning on January 09, 2009, 11:21:39 AM
Not at all to discount your suggestion(s), mon vieux . . . they do raise one of the cruces of the biscuit, as it were.

In the excerpt James offered, we find Jn Adams writing something of a conflicted tribute, in part because of the 'appeal to the eternal six-year-old in all of us' (though what a 6-year-old makes of the G-spot, is anyone's guess).

Some music-lovers I know, who might from a purely sonic standpoint be game to give Zappa a chance, would find potty-mouth lyrics (at random example, "Fem-Bot in a Wet T-Shirt" from Joe's Garage, say) off-putting.

Just another Zappigraphical consideration . . . .

Nah. J. Winter loves that stuff.  ;D

Quote from: mn dave on January 09, 2009, 11:24:14 AM
Nah. J. Winter loves that stuff.  ;D

Then you've mastered the first lesson: Know your audience  8)

Personally, I don't mind absurd lyrics so much but that bathroom humor gets old pretty fast. I also don't like some of his vocal experiments, especially when they become silly and irritating. And sometimes he seems like a one or two trick pony compositionally; there's a sameness to a lot of his "non-rock" stuff.

Did my eyes deceive me, or are there no mentions of Joe's Garage?  Juvenile, yes, but fun nonetheless.  The guitar work in Watermelon in Easter Hay is superb, and Packard Goose could never have been written by anyone else.  There are of course other fine albums, including some with a mighty young Steve Vai, but for me the two that still receive more than occasional play are Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar and Guitar.  They're not albums in the strict sense since they are merely collections of guitar solos from concerts, but the man could play the guitar extraordinarily well, and who can resist titles like Orrin Hatch on Skis and In-A-Gadda-Stravinsky (with its Rite Of Spring inspiration), and Treacherous Cretins?  His classical stuff isn't as good as his rock stuff.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 09, 2009, 11:33:32 AM
Then you've mastered the first lesson: Know your audience  8)

HEY!   $:) ;D

Dangit, why is there no taking umbrage emoticon....

Quote from: jwinter on January 09, 2009, 11:50:09 AM
HEY!   $:) ;D

Dangit, why is there no taking umbrage emoticon....

:D

Quote from: Todd on January 09, 2009, 11:44:47 AM
Did my eyes deceive me, or are there no mentions of Joe's Garage?  Juvenile, yes, but fun nonetheless.  The guitar work in Watermelon in Easter Hay is superb, and Packard Goose could never have been written by anyone else. . .

"Watermelon in Easter Hay" is indeed table-pounding stuff.

And I've been thinking about revisiting Guitar.

Quote from: Todd. . . His classical stuff isn't as good as his rock stuff.

Inclined to agree.

Your Stinkfoot puts the hurt on my nose.

Just landed.  The 'vaultmeistered' live releases are from Buffalo and Boston, so it's nearly, like, personal  8)

The packaging of Frank Zappa Plays the Music of Frank Zappa: A Memorial Tribute actually sports a fuzzy Imperial.

well, HERE'S a gigantic black hole of tremendous variety and talent.  where to begin? i don't know if people on this site would be interested in anything but the Boulez led "symphony", ...so I'm just throwin this out. Mostly I like the music but find his sense of humor tiresome. however, "fillmore live '71" is a hoot.
for me personally, I find that my personal lead guitar playing style sounds like him more than anyone else.

Quote from: snyprrr on March 12, 2009, 06:46:12 AM
well, HERE'S a gigantic black hole of tremendous variety and talent.  where to begin? i don't Mostly I like the music but find his sense of humor tiresome.

Yes.

When he was being either hectoring or locker-room-ish, yes, he got rapidly tiresome.

But (for instance) the sneaky introduction of the lick from Yes's "Owner of a Lonely Heart" into the accompaniment of the solo in "Bamboozled by Love" . . . that sort of humorous touch has staying power.

Quote from: James on March 12, 2009, 09:30:56 AM
I prefer his 'sicker' stuff myself.

Sorry, but we might understand you better if you restrict yourself to English  8)

Well, I do go to actual performances more often than I surf youtube . . . .

(http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/games/uploaded_images/mk4-734274.gif)

Talented musician, annoying personality. He would have benefited from a few spanks as a child.

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 12, 2009, 10:46:17 AM
Talented musician, annoying personality.

As a talented musician, then, he's got the advantage of you.

Keenly though I do enjoy quite large stretches of his work, Zappa as a composer I think shy of greatness.  All of his components together (composer/guitarist/bandleader/performance artist), and I have no quarrel with applying the adjective great to him . . . would entertain the idea of applying the term genius to him.

My 2¢.

I'm mixed on Zappa.  I truly love "Weasels Ripped My Flesh", as it wanders into polyrhythms, avante-garde, free jazz, blues, rock, and most anything else you may consider with fearless abandon.  And I really love the violin stylings of Don "Sugarcane" Harris, who played on this album, Burnt Weenie Sandwhich, and Hot Rats.   I also have a weakness for Apostrophe as well, although  that was much more commercial.

The humor gets in the way sometimes.  Also, I get the feeling that his strength was pulling together innovations from different sources (I love the fact that he was an advocate for Varese!), but sometimes I feel that he was more of an integrator than a creator.

Still, coming out of the Rock swamp, he was a towering figure, and worthy of much respect.

(There is an interesting story about how Col Bruce Hampton met Zappa-- he was an out of town hick who was the only one who could Identify a piece of recording music that Zappa was playing at some place-- Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima).

One more soup for the world!

There's a great "emotion in music" experiment to be made.  I wonder if anyone who comes to the hearing in ignorance (practical, not necessarily absolute) of Zappa, would find tears starting on listening to "Watermelon in Easter Hay."

(No youtube, thank you;  lowest-fi won't serve here.)

Quote from: jowcol on March 12, 2009, 01:40:21 PM
I'm mixed on Zappa.  I truly love "Weasels Ripped My Flesh", as it wanders into polyrhythms, avante-garde, free jazz, blues, rock, and most anything else you may consider with fearless abandon.  And I really love the violin stylings of Don "Sugarcane" Harris, who played on this album, Burnt Weenie Sandwhich, and Hot Rats.   I also have a weakness for Apostrophe as well, although  that was much more commercial.

His steady-state was a mix of scorn for and indifference to top-40 . . . and the AOR success of "Don't Eat the Yellow Snow" surprised him.  In some interview or other, he mentions that a jockey at some station made a radio-friendly shorter edition of the song (probably he thought of it moving directly into "Nanook Rubs It" . . . "Y.Sn." seems only to clock at 2:06), and it took off, and drove sales of Apostrophe(').

BTW, John, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Hot Rats & Burnt Weenie Sandwich are all among my favorite albums. I'm humming "WPLJ" even now . . . .

You should get out more  ;D

Quote from: FZI don't care whether I'm remembered. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of people who would like to forget about me as soon as possible, and I'm on their side! You know? Just ... hurry up and get it over with. I do what I do because I like doing it, I do it for my amusement first, if it amuses you ... that's fine. I'm happy that you'll participate in it. But, uh, after I am dead and gone, there is no need to deal with any of this stuff, because it is not written for future generations, it is not performed for future generations. It is performed for now. Get it while it's hot, you know? That's it.

All great posts!

ah...Bobby Brown, Apostrophe, Peaches en Regalia, Fillmore '71, Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar...the Residents

Velvet Underground/John Cale/Brian Eno/Warhol

George Crumb- Black Angels

David Munrow

free jazz exploration @ 1971

Manson

Death of Stravinsky
Death of DSCH
death of god

Lachenmann, Sciarrino, Xenakis, Glokobar

electronic vs. ancient

scratch orchestra

Lief Segerstam's 6th quartet

Visconti

Vanilla Fudge

Blow Up

William Shatner's "Transformed Man"

classical musicians looked like hippies!!! the fros!!!

I believe that a confluence of all things occured @ '67-'73, centering on 1971, as supernatural forces were unleashed on battlefield earth...all only HINTED at in Crumb's Black Angels, but evident in all things...politics, war, art...black sabbath...but seriously, tell me you don't have any guilty pleasures!!!!!

Joe's Garage!

My 2¢ is that I can't be bothered with him.  ;D
He annoys me like a large bat at scratching my toes while I'm trying to sleep on the summit of a mountain surrounded by bald Eagle chicks at midnight.  There.  I bet he didn't write anything about THAT kind of experience.
Sorry.  Must be something in the coffee.

boulez learning from zappa
zappa learning from boulez

i hope Billy Corgin doesn't write a symphony

Quote from: James on March 12, 2009, 07:18:54 PM
Well, he was quite wrong about that (and other things he said).

Yet, there are worthwhile points you are missing, if you simply dismiss this as quite wrong.

Quote from: James on March 12, 2009, 07:18:54 PM
Well, he was quite wrong about that (and other things he said).

He was wrong about everything. Like many during that time, he was just unconsciously parroting all the bullshit shoved down American youths by the Frankfurt school's variety of Bolshevik subversives. He wasted a life time pursuing an ideal that was designed to destroy him. 

Quote from: James on March 12, 2009, 08:34:51 PM
There's a cute film with Zappa, in which he's still very young and he's playing with a, I mean on a bicycle - this perfectly reflects the '60s' way of making music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e3I0iagWXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCCGeHz06U4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5qmtYuUEGk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnpTe6-s_H8&feature=related

The '60s' way of making music indeed. It's good to see people still had the sense to laugh at this crap. Too bad that is no longer the case.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 12, 2009, 04:38:49 PM


BTW, John, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Hot Rats & Burnt Weenie Sandwich are all among my favorite albums. I'm humming "WPLJ" even now . . . .

I know I'm in danger of wandering off topic, but if you like the violin on these albums, the "New Violin Summit II" Album is a must! A little more information here:  http://mps-love.blogspot.com/2008/06/15335-various-artists-new-violin-summit.html  Also Sugarcane's later 70s albums were quite good.  (Cup Full of Dreams, and particularly Keyzop and Flashin Time


Getting Back to Weasels Ripped My Flesh -- you have to love the title "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask" and "My Gutar Wants to kill your mama".  I read one interview where he bemoaned the fact that he got requests for the "Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbeque" from people who didn't know who Dolphy was.

Gotta get back to looking for my zircon-encrusted tweezers....

I have stood in front of(though not worshipped before) the bust of Frank Zappa erected on a pedestal in Vilnius of all places ;D

http://www.balticsworldwide.com/news/features/zappa.htm

What about Captain Beefheart?

     I just got Hot Rats. Yeow! It sounds great. Wikipedia is wrong to credit Chunga's Revenge as the first album with Dunbar. He's the drummer on Peaches en Regalia without a shadow of a doubt. He has the most recognizable kick drum I've ever heard.

     (http://pixhost.ws/avaxhome/19/4b/000b4b19_medium.jpeg)

     Good music doesn't respect categories, and Frank Zappa is the best illustration I can think of for this. Much of his music is formally uncategorizable unless you think electric guitar means rock and saxophone means jazz. So Zappa practices a brand of high level fusion, which even includes "fusion" as a component. _:)

     And he was a great guitar player.

TTT

The second page of this thread, my browser, she no likes...  :-\

Is something wrong with my browser? I don't see this poll the rest of you are referring to.

Quote from: Joe Barron on June 17, 2009, 10:05:52 AM
Is something wrong with my browser? I don't see this poll the rest of you are referring to.

Me neither.

Quote from: James on January 08, 2009, 08:39:16 AM
I knew I ought to be grateful to Zappa for his going head-to-head with the worst vulgarities in American popular culture and satirizing them with a flair worthy of Panurge. But I struggled to stay involved when I listened to his music, whether it was his canonical early Mothers of Invention songs, his Synclavier compositions, or the "avant-garde" instrumental works of his late Yellow Shark compositions. Too often the butt of his humor turned out to be something I didn't much care about—bad pop music, Los Angeles car culture, or adolescent complexes of not being popular. What one of his fans acknowledged as an "aggressive defensiveness concerning 'high art'" sounded right to me. Zappa's vein of wary, almost paranoid suspicion of cultural elitism runs very deep in the American psyche and often for good reason. But what he ridiculed as bogus pomp was also something he deeply desired to possess, a cachet in the world of serious art music, although strictly on his own terms. Curiously, despite their composer's huge name recognition and popularity, Zappa's "classical" works have yet to be taken up as part of the regular repertoire. They are difficult and require much rehearsal time. But so are the works of Ives, Carter, Ligeti, and Ades, and conductors—at least some conductors—will accept the challenge of those composers. There seems to be a quality issue with Zappa's serious music that cannot be gotten around.

Adams sounds like a real dick. There is  quality issue with his music that cannot be gotten around.

Quote from: Joe Barron on June 17, 2009, 10:05:52 AM
Is something wrong with my browser? I don't see this poll the rest of you are referring to.

Nothing wrong with your browser;  the poll was dropped.  Poor design  8)

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 17, 2009, 10:52:10 AM
Nothing wrong with your browser;  the poll was dropped.  Poor design  8)

So then what, exactly, is this thread about?

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 08, 2009, 07:51:30 AM
The Mark Volman/Howard Kaylan band leaves me with mixed feelings (speaking purely musically, I mean).

    They were good at the rock band stuff, but not his more ambitious numbers. Zappa himself, incidentally, was a stone cold rocker as a player, and I wouldn't assume that his rock proclivities were a matter of satirizing. Musically it's a big part of the package, and I like that he never really felt obliged to choose from among his tendencies.

Quote from: drogulus on June 17, 2009, 04:47:15 PM
Zappa himself, incidentally, was a stone cold rocker as a player, and I wouldn't assume that his rock proclivities were a matter of satirizing. Musically it's a big part of the package, and I like that he never really felt obliged to choose from among his tendencies.

He could "dig in" to the blues, without going on auto-pilot.  I could listen to his solo work on various versions of "The Torture Never Stops" or "Advance Romance" (e.g.) practically endlessly.

Quote from: MN Dave on June 17, 2009, 06:29:35 AM
Hey Karl, what are your favorite Zappa albums?

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 17, 2009, 06:40:52 AM
Uncle Meat
Weasels Ripped My Flesh
Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Hot Rats
One Size Fits All
Waka/Jawaka
Grand Wazoo
The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life
Make a Jazz Noise Here

And, really, the entire You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore series

Ought to have added Weasels Ripped My Flesh.

An ear worm for me is "You Are What You Is".

Oh no. I guess I shouldn't have thought of that...  :-\

Quote from: ' on June 18, 2009, 05:19:18 AM
Hey, if you ever want to know what I look like, find a copy of the movie "Outlaw Blues" (P Fonda/Susan St. James). Look closely in the record shop scene: I am carrying a copy of Weasels Ripped My Flesh, in a crowd trying to block the exit of a cop played by the Bud Shrake (who died a couple of weeks back). '

Or...you could post a picture. :)

Quote from: ' on June 18, 2009, 05:32:07 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/OCR-A_char_Alternate_Apostrophe.svg/424px-OCR-A_char_Alternate_Apostrophe.svg.png)
'

You've lost weight.

From Simon Prentis's liner notes to Läther:

Quote"Broken Hearts Are for Assholes"
A masterpiece of unbridled bluntness, this superb song picks up where ["Tryin' to Grow a Chin"] leaves off.  Dedicated as ever to the cause of mental hygiene, the opening phrase says it all: "Some of you might not agree / But you probably likes a lot of misery...."  The thoroughly traumatized individual (recognize anyone?) seeks solace in the realms of true love, only to be cruelly disappointed.  Analysis over, we are whisked into a bubble of twisted sexual fantasy before having the rug pulled out in a typical Zen moment:  "But you forgot what I was saying..."  Some cite this song as evidence of Zappa's arrogance, but in concert he used to point to himself during repetitions of "you're an asshole":  no one escapes the merry-go-round. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/JHpblGzAK_M

I've heard the song a hundred times, but don't know the name of it . . . many of you will recognize the pop tune that the end of Zappa's solo morphs into.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 18, 2009, 12:42:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/JHpblGzAK_M

I've heard the song a hundred times, but don't know the name of it . . . many of you will recognize the pop tune that the end of Zappa's solo morphs into.

    The Zombies She's Not There.  

Quote from: James on June 30, 2009, 02:08:09 PM
200 Motels features them quite extensively and that's one of Zappa's very best albums. It's brilliant.

    I think he appreciated Volman and Kaylan because they could sing and do the vaudeville-type comedy stuff as well.

    200 Motels is brilliant! The film has a twisted (what else?) Wizard of OZ quality with Zappa as the Wicked Witch and the Wizard. And it featured a performance of tragic dimensions by Don Preston. ₈₎

I think Uncle Meat a much finer album/achievement than 200 Motels.  But of course, if any prefers 200 Motels, the preference cannot be argued  ;)

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2009, 11:51:30 AM
I think Uncle Meat a much finer album/achievement than 200 Motels.  But of course, if any prefers 200 Motels, the preference cannot be argued  ;)

     I was referring to the movie. I haven't listened to either album in a very long time. I'm DL'ing Meat and Fillmore East '71 at the moment.

     One of my earliest Fillmore East concerts was the MOI performing Uncle Meat in 1969. I don't remember much about the show. I think I didn't see much of it because I ran into someone and we ended up talking in the upstairs lobby. I missed most of Chicago's set, too. They were the headliners, and I do remember some really ferocious guitar from Terry Kath.

Quote from: drogulus on July 01, 2009, 01:11:45 PM
     I was referring to the movie. I haven't listened to either album in a very long time. I'm DL'ing Meat and Fillmore East '71 at the moment.

I haven't seen either movie.  Given the odd bit I've seen on youtube, and the audio movie excerpts on the CD reissue of Uncle Meat, I could readily imagine 200 Motels being superior cinema  8)

Weird Al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTNBWIdLeI

Thanks for posting. It's always gratifying to read comment from FZ's old band members.* They seem to revere him. I had a long interview with Ike Willis once, and he said he and Zappa "laughed a ton."

*Don't know what happened with all the ererers in "members. I often have trouble on my home computer when the system hangs up.

Quote from: drogulus on March 22, 2009, 04:50:17 PM
     I just got Hot Rats. Yeow! It sounds great. Wikipedia is wrong to credit Chunga's Revenge as the first album with Dunbar. He's the drummer on Peaches en Regalia without a shadow of a doubt. He has the most recognizable kick drum I've ever heard.

     (http://pixhost.ws/avaxhome/19/4b/000b4b19_medium.jpeg)

Hot Rats is a good album. Zappa could be quite the musician when he sat around and just did his thing without any of his ideological trappings getting in the way.

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on October 08, 2009, 09:16:08 AM
Zappa could be quite the musician when he sat around and just did his thing without any of his ideological trappings getting in the way.

That can be said of a lot of people.'

I really don't understand why this music is taken seriously. Especially by you James, ostensibly the most serious of all classical listeners (in that your tolerance for anything that isn't Profound in the teutonic sense is low, or at least so you claimed in another thread a while back). His music is almost without exception silly, badly orchestrated, boring, unimaginative rehashings of a few other 20th century figures with occasional guitar and rock solos. Seriously, what am I missing here!?  ???

I've listened to that Ensemble Modern Zappa CD and found absolutely nothing I liked, certainly nothing worthy of the praise he seems to be getting here. I am not in general closed minded in my outlook or approach to new music and enjoy a huge diversity of 20th century styles.

Quote from: Guido on October 08, 2009, 09:50:11 AM
I really don't understand why this music is taken seriously. Especially by you James, ostensibly the most serious of all classical listeners (in that your tolerance for anything that isn't Profound in the teutonic sense is low, or at least so you claimed in another thread a while back). His music is almost without exception silly, badly orchestrated, boring, unimaginative rehashings of a few other 20th century figures with occasional guitar and rock solos. Seriously, what am I missing here!?  ???

I've listened to that Ensemble Modern Zappa CD and found absolutely nothing I liked, certainly nothing worthy of the praise he seems to be getting here. I am not in general closed minded in my outlook or approach to new music and enjoy a huge diversity of 20th century styles.

I think you need a certain sense of humor.

Quote from: Guido on October 08, 2009, 09:50:11 AM
I've listened to that Ensemble Modern Zappa CD and found absolutely nothing I liked, certainly nothing worthy of the praise he seems to be getting here. I am not in general closed minded in my outlook or approach to new music and enjoy a huge diversity of 20th century styles.

FWIW, the Ensemble Modern disc may be more readily likeable to someone who has already taken to Zappa;  but it is something of a 'clean image' of Zappa (not a reference to the scatological songbook, as such).  The original tracks of "Uncle Meat (Main Title)" and "Dog-Breath (in the Year of the Plague)" strike me as having more character (and therefore, being a fuller musical portrait of Zappa) than the chamber arrangements for E. M.

Hot Rats is a fine album in my book.  I'm a huge fan of Sugarcane Harris, the electric violinist on that album-- but I've mentioned that earlier on this thread. 

I tend to be selective in the Zappa I listen to-- but I'd certainly consider him worthy of discussion in this forum, not only for his own work, but his championship for composers like Varese. 

Not sure if I mentioned it, but there is an interesting story about Zappa and Col. Bruce Hampton, another truly weird character that you might characterize as the "southern fried" Zappa.  Their friendship started when Zappa was trying to get people to identify a piece of music at some public place, and nobody knew what it was until Hampton happened by.  It was Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima. 

Quote from: James on October 08, 2009, 08:45:14 AM
We will also hear from the greatest American composer of our time – John Adams.

You had me up until this sentence. I used to say that there was no music in the world more brain-deadening than European pop, but I have changed my mind. Equally awful is contemporary American opera, with its endless, uninspired, mind-numbing, anonymous-sounding recitatives, and for this trend we have only Mr. Adams to blame. Yuck.

The Zappa sounds exciting, but I think only a few of Zappa's classical pieces really blend all his influences effectively. Much of it sounds like warmed-over Varese. My favorite piece is Dupree's Paradise, which, as I have said in the past sounds like Varese over a bouncy, Gershwin-inspired Broadway melody. It's terrific. I'm also a fan of Bogus Pomp and Re-gyptian strut.

Quote from: Joe Barron on October 09, 2009, 08:17:02 AM
You had me up until this sentence. I used to say that there was no music in the world more brain-deadening than European pop, but I have changed my mind. Equally awful is contemporary American opera, with its endless, uninspired, mind-numbing, anonymous-sounding recitatives, and for this trend we have only Mr. Adams to blame. Yuck.

The Zappa sounds exciting, but I think only a few of Zappa's classical pieces really blend all his influences effectively. Much of it sounds like warmed-over Varese. My favorite piece is Dupree's Paradise, which, as I have said in the past sounds like Varese over a bouncy, Gershwin-inspired Boradway melody. It's terrific. I'm also a fan of Bogus Pomp and Re-gyptian strut.

I don't want to get in the middle of this one, but I had the piece in question, John Adam's "Eros Piano", on a Nonesuch album entitled "American Elegies", and I think it sounds different that a lot of his stuff, no? I remember liking it in spite of myself, very appealing.

...ha, "Boratway melody"...

Quote from: snyprrr on October 09, 2009, 08:32:27 AM
I don't want to get in the middle of this one, but I had the piece in question, John Adam's "Eros Piano", on a Nonesuch album entitled "American Elegies", and I think it sounds different that a lot of his stuff, no? I remember liking it in spite of myself, very appealing.

...ha, "Boratway melody"...

I meant Broadway melody, corrected.

The fact that the Adams piece is a) appealing and b) very different from his other stuff does not speak well of his other stuff. I too have enjoyed some Adams, but the greatest American composer of our time? Please.

Quote from: James on October 09, 2009, 10:30:49 AM
For the record, I never wrote that blurb - just pasted it over from the link I posted above it.

OK, you're forgiven.  0:)

Quote from: James on October 09, 2009, 10:30:49 AMWhich version of Bogus Pomp Joe, the one on 1975's Orchestral Favorites or the Nagano/LSO Volume 2? My favorite from the Nagano/LSO albums is Sad Jane (on Volume 1), especially the first movement.

I have both, but the one I'm familiar with is the Orchestral Favorites version  (which also reappears on Lather).

Marvin Rosen, God bless him, played Naval Aviation in Art? on his radio show not long ago.

Thanks for the replies (and insights) guys!

Joe - I like this Dupree's Paradise piece - great fun and some lovely stuff going on.

Quote from: Joe Barron on October 09, 2009, 11:40:16 AM


I have both, but the one I'm familiar with is the Orchestral Favorites version  (which also reappears on Lather).

My mistake. Bogus Pomp does not appear on Lather. Regyptian Strut does.

I merged these 2 topics (which are really merely 1 topic) together to concentrate the Zappa essence all in one place. :)

8)

Let the Conceptual Continuity flow . . . .

De gustibus and all that, but I hardly think of "Peaches en Regalia" as gorgeous.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 20, 2009, 04:51:53 PM
De gustibus and all that, but I hardly think of "Peaches en Regalia" as gorgeous.

I once suggested to my recorder group that we play it, but we couldn't find a suitable arragement.

This is interesting: Zappa's music is enjoying a healthy afterlife. Not only is his catalog still in print, but, as the CDs listed here attest, many other musicians and ensembles, particularly jazz and classical groups, have been recording his work in new arrangements. This phenomenon seems to me unique in the history of pop music. I can't think of any other rock figure who has inspired this kind of activity, and I'm wondering why that is. Perhaps Zappa's compositions stand up as compositions, rather than one of a kind recordings of the sort that the Beatles released. Like Bach, Brahms and song writers like Gershwin and Porter, he wrote music that other musicians want to play and reinterpret.

Or maybe they just regard him as an inspirational figure. 

Some fascinating zappa performances ... by kids

Black Page #2

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/IzxAlydF51U

And #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ISQbeG6BcVE

My article on an upcoming Project/Object concert may be seen here (http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2009/12/22/entertainment/doc4b31119205b25546032896.txt).

Ray White was a joy to interview, but he talked so fast.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 06, 2009, 08:55:00 AM
There you go. (http://zappa.com/whatsnew/index.html)

That man looks like a wildebeest.

Just picked up (and watched) the Freak Out List DVD based on the recommendation from James above. Very enjoyable - always good to listen to input from Don Preston, Ian Underwood and George Duke. The visuals attached to the musical selections were a bit silly at times, but of course better than having a single camera aimed at an LP revolving on a turntable. The brief clips of Zappa rehearsing the Varese pieces were amazing - if only the ZFT would see fit to release that "Rage and the Fury" thing. Hopefully in my lifetime! Thanks for the heads up on this very enjoyable film!
-------- Chris

Quote from: Kaiser on June 30, 2010, 12:04:03 PM
Just picked up (and watched) the Freak Out List DVD based on the recommendation from James above. Very enjoyable - always good to listen to input from Don Preston, Ian Underwood and George Duke. The visuals attached to the musical selections were a bit silly at times, but of course better than having a single camera aimed at an LP revolving on a turntable. The brief clips of Zappa rehearsing the Varese pieces were amazing - if only the ZFT would see fit to release that "Rage and the Fury" thing. Hopefully in my lifetime! Thanks for the heads up on this very enjoyable film!
-------- Chris

Hmm, I'm surprised I didn't recommend it here.  Very enjoyable DVD, indeed.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 30, 2010, 12:12:14 PM
Hmm, I'm surprised I didn't recommend it here.  Very enjoyable DVD, indeed.

I would have been surprised if you hadn't seen this Karl! As a companion to this DVD, Canadian Radio 2 did a wonderful audio-documentary about Zappa as a composer with some wonderful recollections from Ruth Underwood. Worth a listen for sure. Imagine my surprise when she name-checked composer Steve Margoshes whose daughter was in one of my history classes the year the documentary aired! Here's a link:

http://www.guertin.com/zappa/cbc2.html

An impulse purchase last week (along with a Count Basie CD and four more Thelonious Monk CDs) was the Blue Note reissue of King Kong: Jean-Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa.

This is thus my first time listening to the "Ur-text" of Music for Electric Violin and Low-Budget Orchestra . . . but I am also enjoying the adaptations of "The Idiot Bastard Son" and "America Drinks and Goes Home."

Interesting to learn that the Music for Electric Violin and Low-Budget Orchestra is substantially longer (19:20) than the subsequent Revised Music for Guitar and Low-Budget Orchestra (under eight minutes).

http://www.youtube.com/v/jwhtL0LNoQw

Hmm, this looks pretty good; must be a DVD out there of the '88 tour.

"Vaultmeister."

Quote from: James on December 16, 2010, 03:52:31 PM
Just picked this 70th anniversary commemorative up at the local bookshop .. bonus!

Looks good. I like MOJO for the most part.

(http://www.houseofblues.com/pics/communications/common/templates/238x238/event_65821.jpg)

Dweezil Zappa Plays Zappa- 70th Birthday Celebration 

House of Blues Boston
Sunday 12/19/2010
Doors: 07:00 PM
Show: 08:00 PM
Prices:
$29.00 - GA Standing Room
$65.00 - Reserved Seating
Ages: all 


House of Blues Boston
15 Lansdowne St.
Boston, MA 02215
(888) 693-BLUE (2583

http://www.houseofblues.com/tickets/eventdetail.php?eventid=65821 (http://www.houseofblues.com/tickets/eventdetail.php?eventid=65821)

♫ On the second day of Zappa,
I played an mp3:
"Willie the Pimp"
& "Lonesome Electric Turkey"

Quote from: karlhenning on December 22, 2011, 04:18:58 AM
♫ On the second day of Zappa,
I played an mp3:
"Willie the Pimp"
& "Lonesome Electric Turkey"

haha ;)

Curiously fascinated by 200 Motels (the soundtrack) these days.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 18, 2012, 05:53:15 AM
Curiously fascinated by 200 Motels (the soundtrack) these days.

Lately, I've been on one of my Sugarcane Harris binges, and found myself listening to the Zappa and the Hot Rats Live at the Olympic show.  (March 1970)  It is my current understanding that there has never been a legit release of this concert, which is a crying shame, as it was one of only two live shows with the Hot Rats band, with the amazing Sugarcane Harris on the electric Violin, and an epic 24 minute Chunga's revenge, and a hot Willie the Pimp.  There are several tracks on youtube.  I'll just toss in a couple. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/bm6an6N9xwM

http://www.youtube.com/v/6aIRKbwATvM

http://www.youtube.com/v/J-4XzEByfro
http://www.youtube.com/v/UMtd60Ox1z4




  There has been  also in circulation a lower-generation copy  for the show where the sound is much closer to the first clip.   if you get googling for the Hot Rats and Olympic, you might find something-- if this stuff appeals to you.




Okay- wandering off thread into fields of Sugarcane....

(http://elvispelvis.com/sugarcane.jpg)

Sugarcane was an amazing player-- his work with Zappa is coincidentally some of my favorite Zappa. (In addition to his work on Hot Rats, he also has some choice contributions to Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Ripped My Flesh (the latter is a classic).  While Jean Luc Ponty was no slouch, (far from), Sugarcane had an emotional edge that just kills me.

He also had major drug issues, and may have been less reliable than Charlie Parker.

Some of Sugarcane's work is coming back into print, but not enough.  His Cup Full of Dreams album has come back out this last year, and the title track is pretty cool. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/hHb2-Ru-MJ8

He did a Live album in 1971 (Sugarcane's Got the Blues) which has some great moments-- despite the title, it's much more Jazz fusion, but the "Song for My Father" is a classic.  I'll admit the title track goes long and doesn't really recover.  Another album to look for (last I checked it wasn't in print, but some rips had been posted) is the New Violin Summit, featuring Sugarcane, Ponty, and two other violinists with a strong rhythm section and Robert Wyatt on drums.  It's worth looking out for if you like electric violin.

Thanks, I'll check those out avec plaisir.

Zappa Plays Zappa in Providence, Sunday. Party!

July came in like a lion. (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2012/07/zappa-played-zappa.html)

Quote from: karlhenning on March 12, 2009, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 12, 2009, 10:46:17 AM
Talented musician, annoying personality.

As a talented musician, then, he's got the advantage of you.

(* chortle *)

I've been living with King Kong: Jean-Luc Ponty Plays the Music of FZ for a few days (mostly I've been composing or otherwise working on my own music, so I've been a little lazy with the CD player at home).  Kind of nice, but a little . . . smoothed-out, overall. At the very least, though, worthwhile for the Ur-text of Music for Electric Violin and Low-Budget Orchestra.  Not entirely a bad thing, but the general feel of the album is, Zappa gone easy-listening.  Interesting alternative readings, though the brevity of "King Kong" (which I perforce remember as a massive suite of variations on the fourth side of the double-LP Uncle Meat) I find intrinsically slight.

It appears Zappa's stuff is currently being released again.

Yes. Thinking about the reissue of Chunga's Revenge....

Do you know what these reissues offer as incentive to buy these albums yet another time?

I do not. I missed the first CD issue (and no longer own the vinyl). Of Chunga's Revenge, that is.

Grandmothers of Invention at Sellersville Theater on Thursday, Aug. 9. Anniversary of Nixon's resignation - appropriate, esp. since they played "Son of Orange County." A great set that included all of the Roxy album except "Be-Bop Tango." Personnel consisted of old-time Mothers Don Preston, Tom Fowler and Napoleon Murphy Brock, and (relative) newcomers Chris Garcia on drums and Robert Mangano in the FZ lead-guitar role.

Quote from: karlhenning on August 14, 2012, 02:41:04 PM
I do not. I missed the first CD issue (and no longer own the vinyl). Of Chunga's Revenge, that is.

Maybe they restored them to the original drums sound-wise. I know Zappa messed with the drums on the previous reissues and fans got pee-ohed. Hm...

Was that a problem with Chunga's Revenge? I read about that controversy w/r/t We're Only In It For the Money.

Ironically ... I fetched in the Lumpy Money project/object, largely for the sake of the ultra-tasty mono remaster of We're Only...  The second disc in this set is the infamous UMRK "tweaked" versions of both Lumpy Gravy and We're Only...

Despite an æsthetic predisposition to dislike them "on principle" ... I have got to admit, they are fun and intriguing. I like them! But ... I should likewise probably have found them (to use a Lumpy Gravy word) "distraughtening" if they were the only version available (or if I had bought them, expecting them to be "genuine reissues").

Quote from: karlhenning on August 17, 2012, 11:08:03 AM
Was that a problem with Chunga's Revenge? I read about that controversy w/r/t We're Only In It For the Money.

Not sure. It was a problem with more than one I believe.

Quote from: MN Dave on August 17, 2012, 11:11:42 AM
Not sure. It was a problem with more than one I believe.

Probably with Freak Out! as well . . . I snapped up the Ryko release as soon as it was available, but it left me cold.  Where the MoFO (Making of Freak Out!) remaster is ultra-yummy.

Other objections raised by purists: The Ryko release of Absolutely Free includes two brief pop-ish songs ("Why Dontcha Do Me Right?" / "Big Leg Emma") which interrupt the flow of the CD.  And where theoretically all of the original double-LP of Uncle Meat could be made to fit on a single CD, the re-issue contains some rather long-winded audio excerpts from the-move-which-was-never-made, and a curious song recorded much later than the Uncle Meat material, "Tengo Na Minchia Tanta" (a scatological Italian phrase).

It's almost like trying to keep up with the Bruckner editions.

Quote from: James on August 18, 2012, 04:56:09 AM
Superior masterings / sourcing.

Ah! Thanks, James.

Quote from: James on August 18, 2012, 06:06:33 AM
http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html

Thanks again!

Interesting reference, thanks, James. Curiously, was just listening to Absolutely Free last night.

Dave, looks like my wait on Chunga's Revenge has paid off....

Quote from: karlhenning on August 18, 2012, 06:17:32 AM
Dave, looks like my wait on Chunga's Revenge has paid off....

Indeed!

Ataraxia, come home!

Just Another Band From LA . . . when's it going to be available?

Quote from: karlhenning on October 02, 2012, 10:56:45 AM
Just Another Band From LA . . . when's it going to be available?

Found it. Who knew?  My ears are jonesing for "Billy the Mountain." And as little patience as I have for some of the liberal scatology, Vinnie Colaiuta on drums does make Joe's Garage an obligatory revisitation.

Happy birthday, Frank Zappa! Don't eat even the celestial yellow snow!

Quote from: karlhenning on January 07, 2009, 04:40:00 AM
The first album, Freak Out, I didn't find a greatly rewarding experience of itself;  more a "this is how it started" illustration.  The seeds for musical ambition (such as his was) were already there, but, as one might expect, Zappa worked with whom he could . . . doo-wop, R&B folks. (All the same, to be sure, Zappa had a fondness for doo-wop and R&B, himself.)

Just wanted to emend this.

The earlier opinion was based on the first Ryko-Disc reissue of Freak Out! At that time (for whatever passel of reasons) I found the album . . . underwhelming.

I have since basked in the re-mastered monaural glory of the album.  So, I may technically continue to agree with the idea that Freak Out! largely has a "this is how it started" value, but with no disgrace.   It is in fact an album to which I return now and again with sonic pleasure.

And now, for your optional entertainment, from a later Zappigraph: "Once Again, Without the Net."

http://www.youtube.com/v/o8iK2FNgUPA

Quote from: Todd on January 09, 2009, 11:44:47 AM
Did my eyes deceive me, or are there no mentions of Joe’s Garage?  Juvenile, yes, but fun nonetheless.  The guitar work in Watermelon in Easter Hay is superb, and Packard Goose could never have been written by anyone else.

Replying to so old a post, just because I have recently revisited Joe’s Garage . . . and I had largely forgotten all the wonderful stuff that runs through "Packard Goose." Your praise is not misplaced a whit.

Quote from: snyprrr on March 20, 2009, 05:11:17 PM
What about Captain Beefheart?

I do not listen to Trout Mask Replica all that often.  (And most of the time, I cherry-pick a track or three; it is a long time since I listened to the album as a whole. I find it a worthwhile experience, only one needs to be in the mood. Not drunk, just in the mood.)

Safe as Milk, Spotlight Kid and Clear Spot, though, I listen to frequently, indeed.

Quote from: Concord on August 17, 2012, 11:26:27 AM
It's almost like trying to keep up with the Bruckner editions.

(* chortle *)

This just in from Ed Palermo and his big band...

RIGHT ACROSS THE HUDSON RIVER FROM NYC! BEAUTIFUL OUTDOOR CONCERT!

Wednesday June 26
(rain date Thursday June 27) at

Summer Concerts on the Hudson
Lincoln Harbor Park
on the Weehawken, NJ waterfront
(just a few hundred feet north of the Chart House restaurant)

7-9 pm
Tel: 201-716-4540   Website: http://www.hrpac.org (http://www.hrpac.org)

Directions: click here
Free of charge!  Free parking!
The music of Frank Zappa and more.

You going, dude?

Unusually busy week at work. I still haven't heard this band play. So...no, unfortunately.

Zappa liked three Beatles songs:

"I Am the Walrus"
"Strawberry Fields Forever"
"Paperback Writer"

Damned good taste, that.

Aye.

He even (stop me if I've told you this already) had the band learn the "Walrus" for the 1988 tour:

http://www.youtube.com/v/AgXrhvf_7pE

". . . severe damage" . . . love it.

Cool.  8)

David Ocker was a copyist, synclavier programmer, and clarinetist for Zappa.
http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/David_Ocker (http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/David_Ocker)

Frank Zappa's 200 Motels - The Suites
http://mixedmeters.com/2013/10/frank-zappas-200-motels-suites.html (http://mixedmeters.com/2013/10/frank-zappas-200-motels-suites.html)

From an enthusiastic Amazon review of Uncle Meat:

QuoteListen to "Nine Types of Industrial Pollution" alone, in a darkened room, with the volume turned up and prepare to weep tears of joy.

A testimonial, dear friends!

R.I.P., Don Pardo

http://www.youtube.com/v/O69zZ2kXW3o

Quote from: karlhenning on August 19, 2014, 04:20:56 PM
R.I.P., Don Pardo

http://www.youtube.com/v/O69zZ2kXW3o

Pity about them never getting that photograph to him!  And I love how he half-remembers Michael Kenyon:  The Illinois Enema Bandit!

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 09, 2013, 08:01:46 AM
I do not listen to Trout Mask Replica all that often.  (And most of the time, I cherry-pick a track or three; it is a long time since I listened to the album as a whole. I find it a worthwhile experience, only one needs to be in the mood. Not drunk, just in the mood.)

A few weeks ago, I listened to Trout Mask Replica practically in toto, two or three days in a row-ish.  It's peculiar, no denying that;  but I do like it.

So, the real occasion for dusting off this thread:  Uncle Meat gets the Project/Object treatment at last!

Goes right to the top of my Dear Santa list.

Even though avid fans have probably seen all of the footage it's made out of ...
Did anyone see the new acclaimed documentary Eat that Question: Frank Zappa in His Own Words?
It's supposed to be very good.

More here: http://sonyclassics.com/eatthatquestion/

Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on November 07, 2016, 12:39:49 AM
Very awesome, I've been wanting an Uncle Meat project/object for a long time. I just wish that the original string quartet that Sleeping in a jar/Pound for a brown was derived from was found/included!  :(
I enjoyed the previous project/objects, so this will be awesome!  8)

I also didn't realise you where a Zappa fan(besides a brief mention) Karl, this is great!!  :D

Cheers!  The MOFO and Lumpy Money releases are sonic treasure troves.

I've been spending at least part of each day with Meat Light for two or three weeks.  I've always been a fan of the original double-LP Uncle Meat album, drawn immediately in by the alternately earnest and whimsical chamber music numbers, the Dadaist doo-woop, the jazz-ish numbers, even the objet trouvé recorded conversation snippets.  I didn't know just why it worked, but I felt right away that it all did indeed work.  So the new remaster is an answer to prayer.

All the "extras" tracks are of interest, and many are great fun.

I am still in the process of absorbing the Original Sequence.  Certainly I am enjoying the fresh perspective of all the tracks I know and love, in a different order, plus all the other "stuff."  I guess I am rather wondering, does it work, in this Original Sequence?  My working hypothesis is, it does, and it is just a question of my reorienting, and growing better accustomed to the novel arrangement.  I find myself wishing that there were some documentation/explanation of the "Original Sequence," but – it's just there.

So, there it is:  Entirely satisfied with the Project/Object.  And tentatively puzzling a bit over (but nevertheless enjoying) the Original Sequence.

Some here may be interested to learn of my recently revived Zappa Reviews series, to which I have just added an article on Burnt Weeny Sandwich (https://cazoozerdon.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-zappa-reviews-8-burnt-weeny-sandwich/).

Quote from: Crudblud on January 16, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
Some here may be interested to learn of my recently revived Zappa Reviews series, to which I have just added an article on Burnt Weeny Sandwich (https://cazoozerdon.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-zappa-reviews-8-burnt-weeny-sandwich/).

"...the smug excitation of pentatonic noodling": very nice!  I probably have too much sentimental attachment to the album to think at all ill of it;  but I do appreciate your critical commentary.  Withal, an enjoyable read, thanks.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 18, 2017, 03:53:46 AM
"...the smug excitation of pentatonic noodling": very nice!  I probably have too much sentimental attachment to the album to think at all ill of it;  but I do appreciate your critical commentary.  Withal, an enjoyable read, thanks.

I actually love the album, but I do think Little House is a mess. Glad you enjoyed reading, hopefully I will have more up soon.

Recently, I've listened to the 1986 Ryko Disc version of Lumpy Gravy, and then to the 1984 (but not released at the time) UMRK re-mix which appears on Lumpy Money.  I think that the bass/drums overdubs (and the added vocals on "Duodenum" the "Lumpy Gravy Theme") would annoy me a great deal more, if I did not also have the 'original' unretouched version.  I guess the Lumpy Money release puzzles me a little (only a little), as the "Primordial" Lumpy Gravy (which is wonderful) is just the original orchestral tracks, recorded 1Q67.

While we're on the subject of Lumpy Gravy, I guess I'll be a cheap bastard and plug my Zappa writings once more. In 2015 I wrote a somewhat lengthy (~5000 word) analysis of the structure and themes of the album, in my view Zappa's first true masterpiece, which nerds who are so inclined may read here (https://cazoozerdon.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/the-zappa-reviews-4-lumpy-gravy/). Reading through now it's clear that I wasn't at the top of my game in terms of proofreading, but typos and similar should not be too confusing (a few split infinitives is all, I think), at least not any more so than the thing itself, and I think the points hold up well.

Although Frank could be a real dick as well (how can anyone hate the Velvet Underground?)

http://www.openculture.com/2017/06/andy-warhol-hosts-frank-zappa-on-his-cable-tv-show.html (http://www.openculture.com/2017/06/andy-warhol-hosts-frank-zappa-on-his-cable-tv-show.html)

Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 13, 2017, 07:43:32 PM
Although Frank could be a real dick as well

It cannot be denied.

If you don't know that it's Zappa's 77^th birthday, you are dead to me. (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-9-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

(That statement is false.)

The 13 Days of Zappaness (2017 Edition)

Day 1 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-13-days-of-zappaness-2017-edition.html)

Day 2 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-2-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 3 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-3-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 4 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-4-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 5 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-5-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 6 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-6-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 7 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-7-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 8 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-8-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 9—Birthday! (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-9-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 10 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-10-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 11 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-11-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 12 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-12-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Day 13 (http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2017/12/day-13-of-13-days-of-zappaness-2017.html)

Call any vegetable, pick up the phone! Think of the vegetable, lonely at home.

It takes a Zappa-literate cat to pull this off:

https://www.youtube.com/v/5VuiBBX6aZA

https://www.youtube.com/v/KqijWAY2yz0

Last concert I went to before the plague arrived was the LA Guitar Quartet and they played a smokin arrangement of Peaches en Regalia

Could not find that on Youtube, but here is Son of Mr. Greenjeans

https://www.youtube.com/v/zapyH0Trbe0

https://www.youtube.com/v/LoayhbHElMA

Recently came upon this excellent interview which was released for the first time only a couple of months ago. Late Zappa interviews are some of his most open and interesting, and this one is unique in that it's purely about US media.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 04, 2016, 04:00:26 AM
So, the real occasion for dusting off this thread:  Uncle Meat gets the Project/Object treatment at last!

Goes right to the top of my Dear Santa list.

Listening right now - excellent

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81p2YrQs9eL._SX522_.jpg)

Quote from: BWV 1080 on July 01, 2020, 08:28:53 AM
Last concert I went to before the plague arrived was the LA Guitar Quartet and they played a smokin arrangement of Peaches en Regalia

Could not find that on Youtube, but here is Son of Mr. Greenjeans

https://www.youtube.com/v/zapyH0Trbe0

Cool: Eat Your Greens!

Quote from: Old San Antone on July 01, 2020, 09:46:17 AM
Listening right now - excellent

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81p2YrQs9eL._SX522_.jpg)

Sweet!

Quote from: James on November 07, 2016, 02:09:25 AM
Even though avid fans have probably seen all of the footage it's made out of ...
Did anyone see the new acclaimed documentary Eat that Question: Frank Zappa in His Own Words?
It's supposed to be very good.

More here: http://sonyclassics.com/eatthatquestion/

[A bit late] Yeah, I saw it. I'd say good, worth viewing but not great. Most striking/memorable aspect IMO was that the film strongly conveys the impression that FZ's real ambition was to have been an avant-garde classical composer.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 14, 2017, 03:54:42 AM
It [Frank could be a real dick] cannot be denied.

That's for sure. I have heard some extremely unpleasant anecdotes.

Quote from: Crudblud on July 01, 2020, 09:43:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/LoayhbHElMA

Recently came upon this excellent interview which was released for the first time only a couple of months ago. Late Zappa interviews are some of his most open and interesting, and this one is unique in that it's purely about US media.

I have just (at last) watched; I admit I dug the accidentally prominent Mass. License Plate

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 07, 2020, 03:37:46 PM
I have just (at last) watched; I admit I dug the accidentally prominent Mass. License Plate

During that section I was too busy laughing at Frank's reaction to the news story to notice much else, not that I'm up on my US license plate knowledge anyway.

My non-classical listening (apart from occasional fill via Alexa) has overwhelmingly been revisitation of the YCDTOSA series.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Ia-NoWo5XCU

https://www.youtube.com/v/zcstb7jN2pM

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 11, 2021, 11:28:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/zcstb7jN2pM

:laugh:  Oh, fun!  Was he in the whole episode (a bit limited on time here)?

And, yes, I had read that he had died (either yesterday or the day before aged 78).  A very smart and clever guy.  For example, I read that he came up with a kind of precursor to MTV and to which he sold the rights.  His mother also invented "White Out" (used in typing for those who are too young to be familiar with it.  It was a way for "correcting" typos) and from what I recall, did quite well financially from that invention.

PD

Cool.
I considered starting a Michael Nesmith RIP thread yesterday, but decided against it. I didn't follow his career closely, and never figured out what to think of the Monkees, but MN was definitely a highly intelligent, talented and accomplished guy.

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 11, 2021, 12:07:54 PM
:laugh:  Oh, fun!  Was he in the whole episode (a bit limited on time here)?

And, yes, I had read that he had died (either yesterday or the day before aged 78).  A very smart and clever guy.  For example, I read that he came up with a kind of precursor to MTV and to which he sold the rights.  His mother also invented "White Out" (used in typing for those who are too young to be familiar with it.  It was a way for "correcting" typos) and from what I recall, did quite well financially from that invention.

PD

Just in that open, I think.

oh, the poodle play of this thread ...
 8)

Quote from: Karl Henning on May 22, 2023, 03:27:59 PM

Karl,

Did you ever see the interview of Frank and his daughter Moon on Letterman?  Quite bizarre!  At times, David didn't quite know what to say.  :)


PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 23, 2023, 02:16:09 AMKarl,

Did you ever see the interview of Frank and his daughter Moon on Letterman?  Quite bizarre!  At times, David didn't quite know what to say.  :)

PD

Not sure I'd seen that, PD. Fun to think of a couple of guests throwing Letterman off his stride.

Frank Zappa and the Ikettes Recording at Bolic Sound [Ike & Tina Turner's studio, Inglewood] - 1973

     In 1973 at the Nassau Coliseum I attended a very notorious concert often referred to as "the Battle Of The Bands.". The Mahavishnu Orchestra opened for the MOI. I must have been in the minority in the audience in that I was equally devoted to each of them.

Quote from: drogulus on August 08, 2023, 07:22:49 PMIn 1973 at the Nassau Coliseum I attended a very notorious concert often referred to as "the Battle Of The Bands.". The Mahavishnu Orchestra opened for the MOI. I must have been in the minority in the audience in that I was equally devoted to each of them.

Must've been a cool night.

Quote from: drogulus on August 08, 2023, 07:22:49 PMIn 1973 at the Nassau Coliseum I attended a very notorious concert often referred to as "the Battle Of The Bands.". The Mahavishnu Orchestra opened for the MOI. I must have been in the minority in the audience in that I was equally devoted to each of them.

I probably liked both bands' LPs about equally in the 70s. Maybe Mahavishnu O a tiny bit more. But I was also impressed with Shakti, and McLaughlin's recordings with Miles Davis, Santana, etc.

I bought this LP this year, it's my favorite Zappa record.

200 Motels Soundtrack 50th Anniversary

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71aRTYatCCL._SX522_.jpg)

Quote from: San Antone on September 11, 2023, 05:00:50 PMI bouth this LP this year, it's my favorite Zappa record.

200 Motels Soundtrack 50th Anniversary

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71aRTYatCCL._SX522_.jpg)

Love it!

Quote from: San Antone on September 11, 2023, 05:00:50 PMI bought this LP this year, it's my favorite Zappa record.

200 Motels Soundtrack 50th Anniversary

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71aRTYatCCL._SX522_.jpg)

Yeah, I bought the CD iteration last year:

(https://bsws.burningshed.com/image/data/Frank%20Zappa/frank-zappa_200-motels-50th-anniversary_boxset.jpg)

The movie is pretty much all one might hope for, as well.

Quote from: Karl Henning on July 11, 2024, 04:51:29 PMThe movie is pretty much all one might hope for, as well.

Interestingly enough, I don't believe I've ever seen the film (not that this is important for me to enjoy the score). I need to remedy this at some point. Speaking of 200 Motels, I wonder how the Esa-Pekka Salonen recording is that was released some years ago? Has anyone heard it? I own all of Zappa's classical recordings, but this particular one (the recording in question):

(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music128/v4/b2/27/ef/b227efdf-4059-be8b-a228-22746f08ca72/00824302446072.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg)

Since this is the Zappa thread on GMG, I wanted to say I've been enjoying his work since the late 90s when I scored someone's entire collection in a used CD store. I still own all of these CDs (on Rykodisc), but they have since been superseded by the Zappa Records remasters, which remove the reverb Zappa himself applied when he remastered his catalog during the 80s (?). Anyway, to say the newer remasters sound better would be an understatement.

I've been loving all of the box sets that have been coming over the past decade or so from Zappa Records. The recent Over-Nite Sensation: 50th Anniversary Super Deluxe Edition is proving to be first-rate as I'm now just getting around to it.

I'm not sure if this website has been linked, but this page goes through all of the 2012 Zappa Records reissues and compares them with their Rykodisc counterparts --- very interesting to say the least:

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html (http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html)

This was undeniably an extravagant impulse purchase, yet I don't foresee repentance....

For an impulse purchase, this has proven surprisingly superb. The almost-12-minute unedited title track I found absorbing. A little surprising, since the cut on the album as released is 5 minutes or so. And I loved the Colprado Springs version of "Dupree's Paradise" and  RDNZL." Heck, I always like the latter.

Quote from: Le Buisson Ardent on July 12, 2024, 06:38:01 AMI'm not sure if this website has been linked, but this page goes through all of the 2012 Zappa Records reissues and compares them with their Rykodisc counterparts --- very interesting to say the least:

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html (http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html)

Thanks. I missed this earlier. 

apostrophe (') was the very first Zappa album I heard, sometime in the mid-'70s. That LP was horribly scratched, but that didn't stop me from feeling a great deal of astonishment and delight at the uniqueness of what I heard. I remember being particularly intrigued by the participation of Jack Bruce—at the time, Cream was the pinnacle of rock musicianship for me. Bruce didn't stand out in any remarkable way on the album, but that hardly mattered.

From that moment, every new Zappa album was eagerly anticipated, taped, and listened to over and over again. Later, in the '80s, Zappa's overwhelming flood of releases—motivated by reasons not entirely artistic—seriously dampened my enthusiasm for his work. However, if I ever feel like revisiting Zappa now, apostrophe (') is always my first choice. It's concise and straight to the point, with everything that made Zappa great distilled to perfection.

Plunging into this. I started with Disc 5, which includes the 1987 digital remix. And now I'm listening to Disc 1. It's not for everybody (obviously) but I am really enjoying hearing all the bits, the jams, the what-have-you's. The details listed in the book are interesting and informative.

On the Top Forty in Saudi Arabia, "It must be a camel."

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 15, 2025, 06:33:55 PMPlunging into this. I started with Disc 5, which includes the 1987 digital remix. And now I'm listening to Disc 1. It's not for everybody (obviously) but I am really enjoying hearing all the bits, the jams, the what-have-you's. The details listed in the book are interesting and informative.

Definitely pacing myself, for it is not an album (as a doofus at Rolling Stone mistook it), but documents of the process, and the idea is not to fly through from Disc One, Track One on. Fascinating stuff, and right up my street.

Funny story: the arrival of the parcel confused me quite. The Apostrophe (') 50^th anniversary edition is a delightfully compact affair, and I had allowed this to set my expectations for this comparable Hot Rats celebratory issue. So, this enormous carton arrived, and when I opened it up, I found an LP-sized box within. I mistakenly supposed that I was sent vinyl in error, but no, when I spoke to an agent to sort out (as I thought) the "problem," I broke the cellophane, examined the contents, and discovered that yes, this is the compact disc edition. My initial trend to dismay at the much larger footprint of the product has been completely reversed to pleasure that the book reproduces the LP artwork, hitting all the nostalgia buttons.

A page of the log

And, while my mouse was yet a-hovering over the "place order" button for the Hot Rats Sessions, I found this related beastie.

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 17, 2025, 10:49:11 AMAnd, while my mouse was yet a-hovering over the "place order" button for the Hot Rats Sessions, I found this related beastie.

I've listened to the first disc, which is the speculatively "reconstructed" album itself. Enjoyable, plenty of good stuff. I'm suppressing a weak tendency to prejudice against the project. After all, in the first place, recordings/performances which are worth hearing have been made available to us. And in the second, the methodology is on the same lines of Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Rip My Flesh. I'm still mulling. 

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 17, 2025, 08:33:25 PMI've listened to the first disc, which is the speculatively "reconstructed" album itself. Enjoyable, plenty of good stuff. I'm suppressing a weak tendency to prejudice against the project. After all, in the first place, recordings/performances which are worth hearing have been made available to us. And in the second, the methodology is on the same lines of Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Rip My Flesh. I'm still mulling.

Welp, and when we got to track 12, the sound cut out several times. Defective disc? I've ripped it, and am now listening to the track via Media Monkey to check. The problem may be my machine? It's very old, to be sure. And now, it won't even receive the disc to play at all. Other discs still play fine. And the erstwhile uncooperative track plays on Media Monkey fine. Do I really care if that one disc and my machine don't get along?...

Al que quiere. (Obscure Wm Carlos Williams allusion.

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part I (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part-i.html)

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part II (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part.html)

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part III—Hot Rats Sessions A (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part_16.html)

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part III—Hot Rats Sessions B (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part_17.html)

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part IV (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part_19.html)

Well, it looks like the 50th anniversary Over-Nite Sensation box will land today, exactly a week earlier than expected. That's obviously cool. Watch This Space.

Separately, much as I love Zappa's œuvre, a short list of songs which, if I never heard them again, I'm not sure I'd ever miss "em:
"Titties 'n' Beer"
"Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?"
"Bobby Brown"
"Dinah-Mo Hum"

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 22, 2025, 10:58:28 AMWell, it looks like the 50th anniversary Over-Nite Sensation box will land today, exactly a week earlier than expected. That's obviously cool. Watch This Space.

Separately, much as I love Zappa's œuvre, a short list of songs which, if I never heard them again, I'm not sure I'd ever miss "em:
"Titties 'n' Beer"
"Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?"
"Bobby Brown"
"Dinah-Mo Hum"

Also:
"Punky's Whips"
"Stevie's Spanking"

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 22, 2025, 10:58:28 AMWell, it looks like the 50th anniversary Over-Nite Sensation box will land today, exactly a week earlier than expected. That's obviously cool. Watch This Space.

Separately, much as I love Zappa's œuvre, a short list of songs which, if I never heard them again, I'm not sure I'd ever miss "em:
"Titties 'n' Beer"
"Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?"
"Bobby Brown"
"Dinah-Mo Hum"

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 22, 2025, 10:58:28 AMWell, it looks like the 50th anniversary Over-Nite Sensation box will land today, exactly a week earlier than expected. That's obviously cool. Watch This Space.

Et voilà!

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 18, 2025, 11:11:02 AMDo I really care if that one disc and my machine don't get along?...

They actually made access to customer svc pretty easy. They're going to send a fresh copy. (Not to be a Darryl Downer, but we shall see if the new discs behave as they ought.)

The recto of the CD 3 sleeve of the Over-Nite Sensation box. Lo! the master tape containing "Funky Nothingness." My curiosity is piqued by "Ponty March," sure

Over-Nite Sensation manages to cram in almost everything I find off-putting about Zappa: cringeworthy, childish humor that barely scrapes the bottom of the barrel, simplistic little ditties played with mechanical precision, and an endless, hollow posturing as if it's all oh-so-clever and profound. It's almost fitting that Tina and the Ikettes weren't credited — one imagines they preferred to spare themselves the secondhand embarrassment. Revisiting the album after so many years, I couldn't help but feel a peculiar mix of nostalgia and regret, as though dusting off an old joke book only to realize it was never funny to begin with. At least it's mercifully short — small blessings, I suppose.

Quote from: AnotherSpin on January 23, 2025, 06:56:14 PMOver-Nite Sensation manages to cram in almost everything I find off-putting about Zappa: cringeworthy, childish humor that barely scrapes the bottom of the barrel, simplistic little ditties played with mechanical precision, and an endless, hollow posturing as if it's all oh-so-clever and profound. It's almost fitting that Tina and the Ikettes weren't credited — one imagines they preferred to spare themselves the secondhand embarrassment. Revisiting the album after so many years, I couldn't help but feel a peculiar mix of nostalgia and regret, as though dusting off an old joke book only to realize it was never funny to begin with. At least it's mercifully short — small blessings, I suppose.

There's much to object to, certainly. 

Curious if anyone's ever explained why the material recorded at the same time got split between two albums—especially when the second always struck me as far more interesting? At least, that's how I've felt for years. Now I'm almost afraid to prove myself wrong ;)

Quote from: AnotherSpin on January 23, 2025, 06:56:14 PMOver-Nite Sensation manages to cram in almost everything I find off-putting about Zappa: cringeworthy, childish humor that barely scrapes the bottom of the barrel, simplistic little ditties played with mechanical precision, and an endless, hollow posturing as if it's all oh-so-clever and profound. It's almost fitting that Tina and the Ikettes weren't credited — one imagines they preferred to spare themselves the secondhand embarrassment. Revisiting the album after so many years, I couldn't help but feel a peculiar mix of nostalgia and regret, as though dusting off an old joke book only to realize it was never funny to begin with. At least it's mercifully short — small blessings, I suppose.

Too bad.  I don't feel that way at all. 

I remember hearing it for the first time and really enjoying the humor and attitude.  "I'm The Slime" was my favorite since at the time I was going through an anti-television period (which lasted for a number of years).  I also like "Montana" quite a bit, still do.  I enjoy the entire album, and really like how he sequenced the songs.

I tire more easily of the long jams, I much prefer his concise songs - but I like most of what he did, I just don't listen to it much anymore.  I should, since every time I dip my toe in a smile appears on my face.  Generally a good sign.

Oh, and from what I read, Tina Turner was into it, and enjoyed the challenging music. It was Ike who didn't want anything about him (including Tina who he thought of has his property) to be linked to Zappa.

Quote from: San Antone on January 23, 2025, 07:12:08 PMToo bad.  I don't feel that way at all. 

I remember hearing it for the first time and really enjoying the humor and attitude.  "I'm The Slime" was my favorite since at the time I was going through an anti-television period (which lasted for a number of years).  I also like "Montana" quite a bit, still do.  I enjoy the entire album, and really like how he sequenced the songs.

I tire more easily of the long jams, I much prefer his concise songs - but I like most of what he did, I just don't listen to it much anymore.  I should, since every time I dip my toe in a smile appears on my face.  Generally a good sign.

Oh, and from what I read, Tina Turner was into it, and enjoyed the challenging music. It was Ike who didn't want anything about him (including Tina who he thought of has his property) to be linked to Zappa.

Thanks! I've enjoyed the album overall better than I quite expected. (Among Zappa's albums I don't often reach for this 'un.) "I'm the Slime," "Zomby Woof" and "Montana" are all great. 

Quote from: San Antone on January 23, 2025, 07:12:08 PMToo bad.  I don't feel that way at all. 

I remember hearing it for the first time and really enjoying the humor and attitude.  "I'm The Slime" was my favorite since at the time I was going through an anti-television period (which lasted for a number of years).  I also like "Montana" quite a bit, still do.  I enjoy the entire album, and really like how he sequenced the songs.

I tire more easily of the long jams, I much prefer his concise songs - but I like most of what he did, I just don't listen to it much anymore.  I should, since every time I dip my toe in a smile appears on my face.  Generally a good sign.

Oh, and from what I read, Tina Turner was into it, and enjoyed the challenging music. It was Ike who didn't want anything about him (including Tina who he thought of has his property) to be linked to Zappa.

I played I'm the Slime on endless repeat when I first brought the LP home in the mid-'70s. Back then, I was hooked on Zappa — he was so bizarre and miles apart from the run-of-the-mill rock music I was into at the time. But now? Time's marched on, and let's just say my take on him isn't quite the same anymore.

I think the album (along with Apostrophe) overall pales in comparison to One Size Fits All, which might be Zappa's best "rock" album, but Montana will always be fantastic, and the Tina Turner/Ikettes cameo is spectacular in my opinion.

Quote from: Crudblud on January 24, 2025, 10:46:58 AMI think the album (along with Apostrophe) overall pales in comparison to One Size Fits All, which might be Zappa's best "rock" album, but Montana will always be fantastic, and the Tina Turner/Ikettes cameo is spectacular in my opinion.

Agreed on all points. 

During the time I was into Zappa, I really liked One Size Fits All as well. I'd probably agree that, along with Apostrophe, these are my favorite Zappa albums from the '70s. Plus Joe's Garage.

I'd also add Bongo Fury and Zappa in New York (LP version).

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part V-A (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/knowing-that-there-are-gardeners-who.html)

The Unexpexted Zappa Orgy of 1Q25 Part V-B (https://henningmusick.blogspot.com/2025/01/the-unexpexted-zappa-orgy-of-1q25-part_24.html)

Listening to Civilization Phaze III for the first time since my stroke. Still don't know quite how I feel about it. I like all the musical component. I'm not averse to the notion of continuing the "piano people" saga. Maybe I just need to let it roll.

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 09, 2025, 03:48:17 PMListening to Civilization Phaze III for the first time since my stroke. Still don't know quite how I feel about it. I like all the musical component. I'm not averse to the notion of continuing the "piano people" saga. Maybe I just need to let it roll.

Perhaps my problem (insofar as there may be one) is scale? The fact that the album is teo generously apportioned CDs, which is much broader than Lumpy Gravy. Yes, that may be it.

The more I think about it, the more I tend to believe that Frank Zappa was a serious composer working in long forms utilizing several native musical styles invented in the United States and peppered with dashes of Stravinsky and Varésé.

(https://i.postimg.cc/85mg5PRj/Screenshot-2025-02-09-at-10-01-21-PM.png)

Uncle Meat, 200 Motels, and as the expanded editions of his records that have been coming out display, these are serious works, granted with an element of absurdism. 

Just landed