I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...
My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right. I've listened to Naxos' recording (Graciela Alperyn as Carmen) on their website and enjoy it a good deal more, but there surely has to be a performance with more magic or at least one you'd recommend more highly. What shall I try? Which set is your favorite?
Quote from: brianrein on April 25, 2007, 03:07:17 PM
I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...
My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right. I've listened to Naxos' recording (Graciela Alperyn as Carmen) on their website and enjoy it a good deal more, but there surely has to be a performance with more magic or at least one you'd recommend more highly. What shall I try? Which set is your favorite?
I would recommed my favorite for 10 years: the Rosi film with Placido Domingo, Julia Migenes-Johnson, and conducted by Lorin Maazel. No other version has measured up to this performance IMO. There is real and very good acting plus the voices are good. At the beginning just before the opera itself starts, we see a bullfight and the blood as the bull falls down.
If you choose this performance, I would love to hear your reaction. As I type this I can hear the singers' voices in my head. Wonderful performance!
Quote from: brianrein on April 25, 2007, 03:07:17 PM
I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...
My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right.
There are two reasons the CD you have stinks:
1) Karajan: The most effortful conducting of this opera ever, completely misses the humor and wit. Actually not unlike his conducting of
La Boheme and M.
Butterfly. Some extremely plodding tempi and allowing L. Price to milk it add to the drugery.
2) L. Price: A complete miscast. She makes a good Aida and Amelia(in
Ballo) but utterly lacks any charm as Carmen. The spinto voice is just wrong for the role. Get the feeling that she dislikes the role? Because she sure does. Fact: she sings that role because like Isolde it is a hot-ticket role for big $$$. Since no one in their right mind would indulge her in recording Isolde she settled for the next best thing.
I have the misfortune of owning the complete Karajan/Price set. You are fortunate, you only have 1 disc.
Well, here we go. You will probably get as many recommendations for Carmen as there are recordings. Everyone has theire own idea as to how it should go. I suppose this is testament to the greatness of the opera. It can take a wide variety of approaches and still emerge triumphant.
One of the main problems is that of editions. Pre the Oeser edition of 1964, all recordings used the now discredited Guiraud recitatives instead of spoken dialogue, which probably means we should discount them completely. However, by so doing, we lose two appreciable Carmens in Victoria De Los Angeles and Maria Callas. Post 1964, things don't get any easier as no two recordings use exactly the same editions. It really is very complicated and in the end, choice will no doubt come down to preference for certain singers and conductors.
Safest bets are probably the 1975 Solti (with Troyanos, Domingo, Te Kanawa and Van Dam), 1978 Abbado (Berganza, Domingo, Cotrubas, Milnes) and 1982 Maazel (Migenes, Domingo, Esham, Raimondi). I don't own any of them however. I have two recordings, which both come down to my preference for certain singers. Both sets are seriously flawed in places, but I wouldn't be without either of them.
1) Callas, Gedda, Guiot, Massard; Pretre Though in the old discredited Guiraud version, this performance is actually very French in feel, albeit with a glamorous imported star in the lead role. I much prefer Pretre's conducting to that on my other set, swifter and much more in the opera-comique tradition. Callas is never less than interesting, though the voice is raw at the top of the stave - just as well she doesn't have to stray up there very often. She may not be conventional but here definitely is the dangereuse et belle woman Micaela refers to. Micaela herself is in the very capable hands of Andrea Guiot, who sings the role a lot better than many of her more famous colleagues. Massard is also excellent as Escamillo and Gedda superb as Don Jose, a perfect embodiment of a nice boy gone bad,
2. Baltsa, Carreras, Ricciarelli, Van Dam; Karajan This one I have solely for the performance of the two leading roles. I saw Baltsa and Carreras in this opera at Covent Garden, in the early 1980s and it has remained one of the most memorable evenings I have ever spent in the opera house. Their performances have transfered well to the gramophone, but, truth to tell, are the only reasons one would listen to this recording. Karajan's decision to use the Oeser edition with dialogue is vitiated by the use of actors' voices. He also conducts in a ponderous, overblown manner. Van Dam is good, as he always was in this opera, but he is better represented elsewhere, and Ricciarelli is completely miscast and out of her element. Unless, like me, you want a memento of two great singers at their best, then I would give it a wide berth.
Back to received opinion. Go for Abbado, but maybe give the Callas a listen. It is never dull, that's for sure
I very much enjoy the Frubeck de Burgos version with Grace Bumbry as an under rated Carmen and Jon Vickers. It was the first to use spoken dialogue. The rhythms are well sprung and it is available on Classics For Pleasure.
I don't have any avertion to the Karajan/Price set, but it does not sound French at all, more Italian as Corelli really goes for it. The sound is overblown, but I get quite a bit out of it.
Ozawa recorded it with Jessye Norman who I think is very convincing and she is playful and able to lighten the sheer weight of her voice so as not to flood it with tone. Mirella Freni is the Sop. and was a bit too old to portray the ingenue.
Bernstein mauls the score to the point it makes me wince. Horne is the big attraction, she is first rate. Mc Cracken seems too raw in tone for my taste, but he is committed.
Beecham, much loved by others, it all just seems too civilised to me, no real blood on the sand.
Mike
Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 05:40:58 AM
I very much enjoy the Frubeck de Burgos version with Grace Bumbry as an under rated Carmen and Jon Vickers. It was the first to use spoken dialogue. The rhythms are well sprung and it is available on Classics For Pleasure.
Mike
Strange to say, Mike, though I usually agree with you, I don't here. I found Bumbry's well sung account somewhat anonymous (rather like that of Troyanos). Vickers, though, is superb. And Freni is here caught at the right time for the role of Micaela. I believe there is a film with Bumbry and Vickers, though this time conducted by Karajan. Have you seen it?
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 26, 2007, 02:49:18 AM1978 Abbado (Berganza, Domingo, Cotrubas, Milnes)
I'm very happy with this one. If I was to buy another it would be a DVD.
I also like the Abbado recording a lot. It sounds close to perfect for me, and I don't really feel the need for another version. I have read that the Abbado is one of the most "Spanish-sounding" ones and that is one important criteria for me. Any other highly "Spanish-sounding" recordings out there?
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 26, 2007, 06:08:24 AM
I believe there is a film with Bumbry and Vickers, though this time conducted by Karajan. Have you seen it?
Yes and in all honesty is is dead as a Dodo. It is one Karajan directed as a stage performance and it feels as though they are wading through aspic rather than high on Champers. Karajan makes a Hitchcock like appearance as a peasant with a mustache.
It is mimed to a soundtrack, so many handycaps really. BTW, no probs with us disagreeing.....I may be too easily pleased in this instance.
Mike
Do I understand this right? Von Karajan and Carmen?
Include me out 8)
I think sir, you will find that is von Karajan. D
Ghost of M
Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 11:18:51 AM
I think sir, you will find that is von Karajan. D
Ghost of M
:-)
Even when beginning a sentence (or sentence fragment)? (He asks with genuine orthographical interest.)
Oh yes you are probably right, but it could have been all one sentence with a comma, then I would have got you....or not.
Mike
How about Solti with Troyanos, Domingo, Te Kanawa, van Dam? I am rather fond of that set.
Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 11:11:46 AM
Yes and in all honesty is is dead as a Dodo. It is one Karajan directed as a stage performance and it feels as though they are wading through aspic rather than high on Champers. Karajan makes a Hitchcock like appearance as a peasant with a mustache.
It is mimed to a soundtrack, so many handycaps really. BTW, no probs with us disagreeing.....I may be too easily pleased in this instance.
Mike
Ah, I had a feeling it might be a dud. I have the Met DVD with Baltsa and Carreras, caught a little too late in their partnership. By the time it was taped, they had been singing the roles all over the world for quite a few years and it is beginning to show. Their performances lack the spontaneity and freshness of what I saw at Covent Garden, though they still convince.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 26, 2007, 11:13:42 AM
Do I understand this right? Von Karajan and Carmen?
Include me out 8)
It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on April 27, 2007, 10:29:53 AM
It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.
ZB
Dream team indeed, except we aren't talking about
Aida.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 27, 2007, 10:37:09 AM
Dream team indeed, except we aren't talking about Aida.
C'est
la Carmencita, mon officier.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on April 27, 2007, 10:29:53 AM
It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.
ZB
I couldn't agree with you more. And the Vienna Philharmonic sounds absolutely ravishingly beautiful on that recording. Doesn't THAT mean anything to anybody?
I like that Karajan a great deal, Price sounds sumptuous and Corelli's voice is so open and trumpet-like; he knows how to put passion across. But....it just does not sound French, it has the glossy quality of an international product. Corelli sounds Italianate, not in the least French in his vocal production. The overall sound is overblown. So, I can understand why some cannot get along with it; but it is a set I would not part with.
Mike
Well I keep saying it, but if French is what you want, then Callas/Pretre is a good bet. Apart from the two principals, the whole cast, orchestra, chorus and conductor are French and Gedda was, for many years, the best French tenor around. As for Callas, well she may not sound French, but her performance is French in feel and, anyway, it is not inappropriate for the Carmen to sound a tad exotic. To quote Richard Osborne in Gramophone
[Callas's] Carmen is one of those rare experiences like Piaf singing La Vie En Rose or Dietrich in The Blue Angelwhich is inimitable, unforgettable, and on no account to be missed.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 28, 2007, 01:48:51 AM
Well I keep saying it, but if French is what you want, then Callas/Pretre is a good bet. Apart from the two principals, the whole cast, orchestra, chorus and conductor are French and Gedda was, for many years, the best French tenor around. As for Callas, well she may not sound French, but her performance is French in feel and, anyway, it is not inappropriate for the Carmen to sound a tad exotic. To quote Richard Osborne in Gramophone
[Callas's] Carmen is one of those rare experiences like Piaf singing La Vie En Rose or Dietrich in The Blue Angelwhich is inimitable, unforgettable, and on no account to be missed.
As she also spoke the
langue very convincingly, Callas is
francaise enough for me.
ZB
Callas' spoken French was good, but unmistakably accented (as per various French TV interviews). Her sung French however was flawless in all her recordings (this Carmen and the many arias she recorded). She is by far the most natural sounding non-French singer I'ver heard and verbally outpoints many natives.
Callas' longtime diction coach was Janine Reiss, who incredibly is still active and much sought after. An opera singer herself, and an accomplished harpsichordist, she is heard in that capacity accompanying the recitatives in the Losey Don Giovanni.
That being said, I'm not a fan of that version. I find her Carmen harsh and shrewish. I don't enjoy the multilingual RCA Karajan or Decca Schippers either. The multiplicity of accents is funny for the first few minutes but lets one down badly after a while. I'd rather have the all-american accented Bernstein version, where (sorry, Mike!) I just love the conducting! The second Karajan version is overblown and Baltsa is as shrewish as Callas. Better not to mention Carreras' effortful don José. I believe he was already ill at the time of the recording.
There is no perfect Carmen. It's one of those operas where record companies regularly place big bets (and big names), but the soufflé falls flat all too often. Bumbry-Frühbeck is very fine by me, but Vickers is almost unbearable here: no finesse or elegance whatsoever, a fatal flaw in french opera. And his crooning up to a falsetto high note at the end of the Flower aria is embarrassing . The Losey works as a film because of Migenes Johnson's sultry acting, but not as audio only. The only all-French version I know (with Crespin) is not involving at all. It's DOA.
I'm waiting to listen to the Abbado DG when I have some time.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on April 29, 2007, 06:09:04 PM
The only all-French version I know (with Crespin) is not involving at all. It's DOA.
I'm waiting to listen to the Abbado DG when I have some time.
What about the Opéra-Comique version by Cluytens with Michel and Jobin?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PEG4JK71L._AA240_.jpg)
Q
Quote from: karlhenning on April 26, 2007, 11:20:14 AM
:-)
Even when beginning a sentence (or sentence fragment)? (He asks with genuine orthographical interest.)
M would tell you to write Karajan rather than von Karajan. Only use the
von when spelling out his full name. It's the same rule that applies to Beethoven. Beethoven, correct; van Beethoven, incorrect.
Sarge
Quote from: Que on April 29, 2007, 10:32:30 PM
What about the Opéra-Comique version by Cluytens with Michel and Jobin?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PEG4JK71L._AA240_.jpg)
Q
It's probably the best one, bar none. But still not perfect. Even though Jobin has the language, he doesn't have the passion. His is a big, beefy tenor, suitably engaged but seemingly incapable of true passion. That proves true with all his many recordings. He must have been an accountant in an earlier life. But he will certainly do. Solange Michel is excellent in the title role, and so is Michel Dens as Escamilo. Martha Angelici is suitably girlish. Cluytens conducts with flair and passion. The fly in the ointment is the sound. Although it's been refurbished, it pales next to all the stereo versions which reveal much more of Bizet's wondrous melodies and superb orchestration.
I would say it's mandatory along with your favourite stereo version.
Odd that there are no versions on which we have reached a consensus. I wonder if it is anything to do with it having origins in Opera Comique traditions, despite its subject matter, but has been hijacked into Grand Opera?
Perhaps we basically are attempting it with the wrong sort of voices and betraying the real French essence of it.
Mike
Quote from: knight on April 30, 2007, 04:58:29 AM
Odd that there are no versions on which we have reached a consensus. I wonder if it is anything to do with it having origins in Opera Comique traditions, despite its subject matter, but has been hijacked into Grand Opera?
Perhaps we basically are attempting it with the wrong sort of voices and betraying the real French essence of it.
Mike
Mike, I think that analysis is spot on! The tradition that created these works has simply vanished...
But anything lost,
could be retrieved - maybe it's time for some HIP French opera! :D
Q
Now who should sing it and who conduct it I wonder?
"Notable composers in the history of Opéra-Comique include Auber, Halévy, Berlioz and Bizet. Opéra-Comique staged the first performance of Bizet's Carmen.
Berlioz's The Damnation of Faust received its ill-fated première on 6 December 1846 at the Opéra-Comique. It was one of the worst setbacks in his career, leaving him heavily in debt and profoundly affecting his attitude to the performance of his music in Paris.
Another striking première in the history of the Opéra-Comique was that of Debussy's only opera, Pelléas et Mélisande, on 30 April 1902."
I had no idea that either Berlioz or Debussy had aimed their pieces at that neck of the woods. Clearly, it did not have to be light or frothy, but quintessentially French and we tend not to really know how these pieces were performed back then. I suspect lighter voices, a conversational pace and not trying to burst your eardrums with a modern orchestral sound.
Mike
I like the Karajan/Price Carmen. It's alive. (Imagine Dr. Frankenstein as his creation awakens.)
I also like Abbado/Berganza. These two recordings are like dawn and dusk.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2007, 03:03:59 AM
M would tell you to write Karajan rather than von Karajan. Only use the von when spelling out his full name. It's the same rule that applies to Beethoven. Beethoven, correct; van Beethoven, incorrect.
Great, Sarge. Now I
know.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on April 30, 2007, 04:13:06 AM
It's probably the best one, bar none. But still not perfect. Even though Jobin has the language, he doesn't have the passion. His is a big, beefy tenor, suitably engaged but seemingly incapable of true passion. That proves true with all his many recordings. He must have been an accountant in an earlier life. But he will certainly do. Solange Michel is excellent in the title role, and so is Michel Dens as Escamilo. Martha Angelici is suitably girlish. Cluytens conducts with flair and passion. The fly in the ointment is the sound. Although it's been refurbished, it pales next to all the stereo versions which reveal much more of Bizet's wondrous melodies and superb orchestration.
I would say it's mandatory along with your favourite stereo version.
For all its faults it is, probably, as close as you are ever likely to get on record to the Opera Comique.
The last line of your post is spot on.
On the subject of diction and generally speaking verbal communication, I saw a youtube video of Nathalie Dessay in the Queen of the Night's second act aria. Although she hits the notes, the delivery is cautious because she has trouble getting the words out. Her french-accented German is almost laughable(*). This made me realise that diction is not a given in any language. That problem may be at its most conspicious in french opera, and will be least noticed in italian and english opera. All singers train hard in italian and 2/3 of the repertory is in that language. As for English, it's the language of contacts and contracts, so of course they all get to speak it reasonably well :D. Practice makes for better results.
I'ver never heard the whole Beecham Carmen, but de Los angeles is my favourite singer in those big arias.
Incidentally, AFAIK Lilas Pastia has the distinction of being the only minor character whose name is mentioned in a popular opera aria ;D
Here is Obratsova conducted by Kleiber in Carmen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rtW9HNNO8k&mode=related&search=
I seem to recollect that Karajan said she had the voice of a wild animal. I am not sure whether that was a compliament. I wonder what language she is singing, some Gypsy argot. However, I like what Kleiber does.
Mike
I, too have come to appreciate Karajan in this piece. However, my version on EMI Classics with Callas, remains my default set. :)
As an aside Gramophone republishes its original crit on the de Sabata Tosca. They give it a very mixed reception and come down firmly of the opinion that Callas is bland up against Tebaldi who does more with the words!!!!
Mike
Wanna read about Carmen?
http://www.usdla.org/html/journal/MAR02_Issue/article05.html
"...While one might make a case that Eve, Lilith or Delilah were "earlier Carmens," the original Carmen story appeared in 1845 by the French author, Prosper Merimee, who claimed to have earlier heard a Spanish legend from a noblewoman he knew in Madrid. Writing a short novel, Merimee introduces us to the interesting, cavalier activities of a learned, likeable French scholar traveling in Spain. He narrates amusing anecdotes and describes his meetings with bandit José, who in turn recounts his troubles with gypsy Carmen and her many lovers, including Lucas, a minor hero of the Andalusian bullring. The scholar also dallied dangerously with Carmen, who steals his heirloom watch and otherwise treats him shabbily..."
Here's Carmen again, splashing in the communal bath at Lilas Pastia's. Or WHAT was it supposed to be, bathtub gin? I must admit that THIS sticks in my mind rather than the competent passionate singing of Villazon. Carmen herself was OK in that she had the right vocal colour, but really she was upstaged by all the rest of the inanity on stage like the cigar ladies stripping down to their underwear.
I caught this production on TV yesterday just around that particular melee and thought these ladies were from a ballet company changing into their tutus. Otherwise, one doesn't expect chorus members to be so svelte. The music conducted my Daniel Barenboim was rather a footnote. A pity, really.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on May 19, 2007, 12:01:38 AM
I caught this production on TV yesterday just around that particular melee and thought these ladies were from a ballet company changing into their tutus. Otherwise, one doesn't expect chorus members to be so svelte. The music conducted my Daniel Barenboim was rather a footnote. A pity, really.
ZB
And in many ways,
Carmen is the perfect chorus opera. As they represent real people - workers from the cigarette factory, smugglers, townsfolk etc - one would expect them to be all shapes and sizes, which choruses usually are.
This is right on the mark about the chorus' role in Carmen. Few operas have such a lively array of singing folks than this one. Most other operas usually present the same bunch of villagers, peasants, huntsmen or sundry sailors and gipsies.
I don't know of a more magical choral entrance than the soldiers' in the first act :
La cloche a sonné, nous des ouvrières,
nous venons ici, guetter le retour.
And the cigarette girls' reply:
Dans l'air nous suivons des yeux,
La fumée, la fumée
And for dramatically raising the temperature to fever pitch, nothing beats the various groups in the last act. I get goosebumps every time I hear this:
Une autre quadrille s'avance,
Voyez les picadors: comme ils sont beaux!
I just now saw this thread, deleted my post I had under 'General opera news' and will post it here, more fitting. Our absent friend Nigel wrote one of his masterpieces about the Carmen he saw:
http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/
Very entertaining :D. I wonder if the cell phone fink was Jack Lang?
And very timely. Having the same production on TV (5x in May) would put me off going to see it live.
From Mezzo's site:
Bizet's Carmen
Opera (180 mins), director: Don Kent
Composer: Georges Bizet
Direction: Daniel Barenboim
Staging: Martin Kusej
Orchestra: Statskapelle de Berlin
With Rolando Vilazon, Marina Domashenko, Alexander Vinogradov, Norah Amsellem
Production: Euroarts
"Daniel Barenboim, the director of the Berlin Staatsoper, presides over this December 2004 reprise of Bizet's Carmen, staged by Martil Kusej from Austria. The Russian mezzo soprano Marina Domashenko, who played the title role in Verona and New York, once again incarnates the torrid bohemian, the archetype of the ardent and passionate woman. Her partner is the young Mexican tenor Rolando Villazón, who has received wide acclaim as well as the most prestigious awards for his performances over the past few years. A true lyric star, Villazón charms audiences with his dazzling charisma, his rich timbre that borders on a baritone, and his sharp musicality..."
About the latter, the high Bb in "La fleur" sounded precisely like a baritone trying to reach into the tenor register. Too bad he didn't try to float it instead. But if anything, belting it out shows true tenor grit.
ZB
I just thought of something that always bothered me about the tenor aria: "LA fleur que tu m'avais jetee". The first note is a quarter, the highest note on a downbeat, and the second (that one might think would be more prominent than the article la) descend with the rest of the phrase in eighths. En suivant, everything seems to be more or less according to speech patterns until towards the end: "CAR (high Ab 2 beats) tu n'avais...", "Q'UA jeter..." "POUR t'emparer...". Why emphasize the article?
Does anyone have any explanation for this, except that maybe the music came first and the words, later?
The end of the aria is especially treacherous, to end on a Bb after a full phrase must be REALLY uncomfortable...
ZB
Quote from: knight on May 04, 2007, 01:30:47 PM
Here is Obratsova conducted by Kleiber in Carmen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rtW9HNNO8k&mode=related&search=
I seem to recollect that Karajan said she had the voice of a wild animal. I am not sure whether that was a compliment. I wonder what language she is singing, some Gypsy argot. However, I like what Kleiber does.
And I wonder what scale she is singing in, a perfect example of flattening due to air pressure. I really can't stand the "potatoes in the throat" style of Slavic singing. It would have been nice to hear more of Kleiber but the orchestra was simply upstaged by the jingling and clanging.
ZB
Quote from: knight on May 04, 2007, 01:30:47 PM
Here is Obratsova conducted by Kleiber in Carmen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rtW9HNNO8k&mode=related&search=
I seem to recollect that Karajan said she had the voice of a wild animal. I am not sure whether that was a compliment. I wonder what language she is singing, some Gypsy argot. However, I like what Kleiber does.
A much better version is Berganza's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK-3XCQ5cOM&mode=related&search=
Don't know if it is with Abbado that
longears mentioned. But it has color, balance and even some restraint in the beginning. The latter I seem to remember from Callas' recording, subtle and even menacing.
If anyone is interested check out the rest of the clips of Berganza in Carmen:
The quintet is excellent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyZIc5Ce-8&mode=related&search=
The sound didn't seem to be loud enough in the Habanera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkGoNplMckI&mode=related&search=
The duet with Domingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SF2uetPALQ&mode=related&search=
Very expressive "fleur", a real Latin lover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO7GyQub0BU&mode=related&search=
ZB
ZB, I can't tell you why these words are emphasized (CAR, QU'À, POUR), other than the music calls for a long note at the beginning of each phrase. BTW, none of them is an article. They're what are called petits mots (small words), such as prépositions, conjonctions, pronoms relatifs etc. Same thing as in English: for, to, with, so, etc. They serve to introduce a phrase section, and as such they can be emphasized in speech, whereas an article (le, la, les) should not. The exception to that rule is the beginnning of the aria (LAAAA fleur que tu m'avais jetée), where the same rythmic pattern is at work - exactly the same as in "PAArle-moi de ma mère". Prima la musica in this instance.
Thanks for the Utube excerpts, they're really informative. I love Berganza, but in this instance I don't understand why she sings the whole scene sitting. The context calls for Carmen to join and lead the dance, as Zeffirelli has Obraztsova do (or Regina Resnik here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d1YunTgUzQ&mode=related&search= .) And although the orchestra is a bit swamped by the stage activity, you still hear more of it than in the Berganza excerpt (is that from the Edinburgh Festival, with Abbado?). Pizzicato accompaniment in particular is brilliant.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 20, 2007, 05:48:25 AM
ZB, I can't tell you why these words are emphasized (CAR, QU'À, POUR), other than the music calls for a long note at the beginning of each phrase. BTW, none of them is an article. They're what are called petits mots (small words), such as prépositions, conjonctions, pronoms relatifs etc. Same thing as in English: for, to, with, so, etc. They serve to introduce a phrase section, and as such they can be emphasized in speech, whereas an article (le, la, les) should not. The exception to that rule is the beginnning of the aria (LAAAA fleur que tu m'avais jetée), where the same rythmic pattern is at work - exactly the same as in "PAArle-moi de ma mère". Prima la musica in this instance.
Thanks for the Utube excerpts, they're really informative. I love Berganza, but in this instance I don't understand why she sings the whole scene sitting. The context calls for Carmen to join and lead the dance, as Zeffirelli has Obraztsova do (or Regina Resnik here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d1YunTgUzQ&mode=related&search= .) And although the orchestra is a bit swamped by the stage activity, you still hear more of it than in the Berganza excerpt (is that from the Edinburgh Festival, with Abbado?). Pizzicato accompaniment in particular is brilliant.
That's just the point, in this aria the music doesn't fit the words or the other way around. And my using the word "article' was an oversight. I'm just imagining the same aria in English: "THE flower that you cast at me" or "BECAUSE" or "THAT" or "IN ORDER TO". "SPEAK to me of my mother" is still OK, one language or another. Perhaps those "little words" in French are just as important as the "big ones" and can be emphasised, although they wouldn't be called as such. But usually in singing, phasing and key words go together.
I was thinking later that MAYBE, just MAYBE, Don Jose was so discombobulated like Gilda in
Rigoletto that it is hard for him to get the words out or something like that.
ZB
I absolutely agree. But I guess that in opera compromises have to be found. In French, syllable emphasis is exceptional, whereas it's the norm in other languages (English and Spanish for example). All syllables have more or less equal accenting (accent tonique). So if words are set to music and the rythmic pattern calls for a long note, it's bound to alter the normal speech rythm. The examples you provided are flagrant distortions of natural speech. Some syllables have been artificially accented to fit the musical line.
In last week's Met broadcast intermission, it was mentioned that Carmen is one of 5 operas in which words and music are in perfect accord (the other 4 being Der Rosenkavalier and the 3 Mozart-Da Ponte collaborations). I suppose that's what makes them so musically as well as intellectually satisfying. But perfection is not found in this world, and you have touched on a very good example. OTOH, it should be noted that the whole Flower aria is built on that rythmic pattern with a rising/falling musical line. In Carmen's Séguedille the speech pattern is intact, making for a more rapid, almost metronomic delivery. That allows the rythmic screws to tighten as the scene progresses, with increasingly faster rythm. Absolutely brilliant.
BTW the reason I have trouble with Vickers' Don José is his attempt at a pianissimo high B flat at the end of the aria. Totally unnatural for his type of voice. It makes me wince every time.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 21, 2007, 05:18:14 AM
BTW the reason I have trouble with Vickers' Don José is his attempt at a pianissimo high B flat at the end of the aria. Totally unnatural for his type of voice. It makes me wince every time.
Even though he is attempting to do the composer's bidding? Would you rather he ignored the
pp injunction and just belted the note out?
Speaking of that final rising scale to a
pp high Bb, Carreras manages it pretty well on Karajan II, though, when I heard him sing it in the theatre, he settled for a much less dangerous
mf.
Villazon positively punches out the last Bb in the aria and THAT makes me wince.
I never really thought about it until now (don't sing tenor arias, anyway) but there are quite a few vocal snares in "la fleur". Starting from the end, "t-w-a", gosh, how does one do a "w" on a Bb? Other vocal composers like Rossini, Puccini and Verdi would have never asked that of a singer. But then Bizet had to deal with those hybrid French vowels. Or maybe he didn't write enough vocal music. To start on long high notes like on the qu'a, car, pour descend and then scoop up a little is traversing treacherous waters indeed. The beginning itself from a high F is simply scary. The English version of the Kalmus edition, however, shows that perhaps French is still the better choice:
"The flow-er that you threw to me-e, I kept it still while in the jail."
Now something to think about: the beginning of the Habanera--"l'amour", the L'a on the main second beat. After hearing it so many times, one doesn't question anymore the strangeness of accenting the first syllable. It sounds more natural when Carmen sings it over the chorus with the accent on the 2nd beat.
ZB
(Now, if I can only get my French informant to comment. N, are you here readiing this board???)
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 21, 2007, 09:09:09 AM
Even though he is attempting to do the composer's bidding? Would you rather he ignored the pp injunction and just belted the note out?
Speaking of that final rising scale to a pp high Bb, Carreras manages it pretty well on Karajan II, though, when I heard him sing it in the theatre, he settled for a much less dangerous mf.
Most tenors can't manage that note. Those who have the chops for the meatier parts of the role eschew the written score and take it either forte or at best, fine it down quickly at the end. It
is treacherous and quite ugly when not well done. Domingo shows how it should be done in terms of marrying golden tone and verbal expressivity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75S3fS2N6k , but note how shakily hit is that b flat. He barely manages not to crack it. If there was a Thill or a Vanzo excerpt available somewhere I think we'd have the answer.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 21, 2007, 10:51:59 AM
Most tenors can't manage that note. Those who have the chops for the meatier parts of the role eschew the written score and take it either forte or at best, fine it down quickly at the end. It is treacherous and quite ugly when not well done. Domingo shows how it should be done in terms of marrying golden tone and verbal expressivity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75S3fS2N6k , but note how shakily hit is that b flat. He barely manages not to crack it. If there was a Thill or a Vanzo excerpt available somewhere I think we'd have the answer.
And what about the high B in the
Seguidilla that usually come out as a shriek and/or off pitch--an unkind trick to put it at the end and after those mouthfuls of words on 16th notes. If the conductor is merciful, he will take it at a reasonable speed so at least Don Jose can understand she is saying.
I'm amazed at the varying accents one can find in Carmen. Sometimes it can sound like a different language, even "gypsy argot" as Mike mentioned. Baltza in the
Seguidilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-W-3Ig4nKk&mode=related&search=
Domingo is really the Latin lover in the above quoted clip. In the following I don't find a lot of chemistry between the two but at least Berganza's singing was more than competent and their accents more or less homogenous with one another. After all, the opera is set in Spain!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQCuwu6xyG0&mode=related&search=
ZB
This particular Carmen production has me intrigued:
(http://www.operatoday.com/content/Carmen_Margarethen.jpg) (http://www.operatoday.com/content/2006/01/bizet_carmen_2.php)
Anyone familiar with it?
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on May 19, 2007, 08:46:39 PM
And very timely. Having the same production on TV (5x in May) would put me off going to see it live.
From Mezzo's site:
Bizet's Carmen
Opera (180 mins), director: Don Kent
Composer: Georges Bizet
Direction: Daniel Barenboim
Staging: Martin Kusej
Orchestra: Statskapelle de Berlin
With Rolando Vilazon, Marina Domashenko, Alexander Vinogradov, Norah Amsellem
Production: Euroarts
"Daniel Barenboim, the director of the Berlin Staatsoper, presides over this December 2004 reprise of Bizet's Carmen, staged by Martil Kusej from Austria. The Russian mezzo soprano Marina Domashenko, who played the title role in Verona and New York, once again incarnates the torrid bohemian, the archetype of the ardent and passionate woman. Her partner is the young Mexican tenor Rolando Villazón, who has received wide acclaim as well as the most prestigious awards for his performances over the past few years. A true lyric star, Villazón charms audiences with his dazzling charisma, his rich timbre that borders on a baritone, and his sharp musicality..."
About the latter, the high Bb in "La fleur" sounded precisely like a baritone trying to reach into the tenor register. Too bad he didn't try to float it instead. But if anything, belting it out shows true tenor grit.
The live performances received outstanding reviews in teh German press. Didn't see this though.
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on May 19, 2007, 09:18:32 PM
And I wonder what scale she is singing in, a perfect example of flattening due to air pressure. I really can't stand the "potatoes in the throat" style of Slavic singing. It would have been nice to hear more of Kleiber but the orchestra was simply upstaged by the jingling and clanging.
That's not really a "Slavic style", it's the fact that Russian doesn't have any 'clean' vowels. She sounds that way because she can't speak otehr languages without her native accent. Take a Czech, Croat or Serb or other Slav whose native language has 'clean' vowels like Italian and you don't have the problem.
Quote from: O Mensch on June 01, 2007, 04:57:18 PM
That's not really a "Slavic style", it's the fact that Russian doesn't have any 'clean' vowels. She sounds that way because she can't speak otehr languages without her native accent. Take a Czech, Croat or Serb or other Slav whose native language has 'clean' vowels like Italian and you don't have the problem.
It was a lucky break then that my "Russian" teacher also spoke Yiddish. (Otherwise we couldn't communicate. I knew some German and his cousin also helped to translate.) Now, his teachers studied in Europe before the Revolution, so his style was informed by
Bel Canto rather than
Otchi Chornye.
But really, it's not just the vowels. Some Russians manage to overcome their speech patterns just like some native English speakers. And I do think it is a style, a kind of emoting through the sound rather than carried on it.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 02, 2007, 09:03:09 PM
And I do think it is a style, a kind of emoting through the sound rather than carried on it.
But is it really "Slavic" or only "Russian"? And do
all Russians "have" it??
Please discuss your favorite Carmen CD version or DVD versions...........
Carmen has stood the test of time as one of the most beloved operas of all time and a favorite of mine, I have several full CD versions and a few DVD versions always intersted in adding more for this work, almost every conductor has tried his hand at this.........what are your all time favorites and why?
DarkAngel,
I think you'll find that I and several others have already done this at the beginning of this topic.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 14, 2010, 01:19:14 PM
DarkAngel,
I think you'll find that I and several others have already done this at the beginning of this topic.
OK thanks for finding that............the topic listing of "carmen!" does not come up when you do a "carmen" search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2XyHfi50yE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2XyHfi50yE&feature=related)
I love the new 2008 DVD version with A.C. Antonacci and Jonas Kaufman, has a lusty bohemian working class feel that other versions lack, very high quality widescreen picture, Pappano conducts with gusto and Antonacci has a sassy earthy tone and a great swagger in her performance.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/214Mq3ANcLL._SL500_AA180_.jpg)
Cleavage.
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 14, 2010, 02:31:07 PM
OK thanks for finding that............the topic listing of "carmen!" does not come up when you do a "carmen" search
I don't know what's the problem, but GMG's 'search' feature could certainly use some of Google's tricks. It's rare I don't fond a god, useful reference on Google, but GMG's search engine has a mind of its own. We can't all be living encyclopaedias ::).
It is true that this search engine is no Google, however, if you are in the area you want to check for, the logical one (in this case "Opera and Vocal"), and then you do a simple search "carmen" in the search box, I came up with 3 pages of hits, obviously including this thread several times over. However (and I didn't try it just now) from memory I can say that if I had been out on the main board and typed 'carmen' in the box, it wouldn't have come up with nearly the same number of hits. I don't know why this is, but I learned it years ago and never do it anymore. Perhpas it has been improved, but it doesn't sound like it... :-\
8)
----------------
Listening to:
BPO / von Karajan - Korsakov Symphonic Suite Scheherezade Op 35 Pt 4
Quote from: mn dave on January 14, 2010, 03:19:51 PM
Cleavage.
And splendid at that. This is the version that I have, I was quite pleased with it. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
New York PO / Temirkanov - Rimsky Korsakov Russian Easter Overture Op 36
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JLz5Vhc6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
For Carmen "collectors" this 1979 version should be obtained..........great leads featuring Anna Moffo and Franco Correlli, super supporting cast Helen Donath, Jose Van Dam, Arleen Auger. Maazel conducts an alert reading that packs a punch........but there is a serious flaw, spoken dialog tracks by actors destroys the flow of events, best you can do is skip through them........very very cheap at Amazon, I got it for Moffo as heard below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VdwLraaKa0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VdwLraaKa0)
These seem very late dates for both Moffo and Corelli (but not for the other cast membere though). Moffo's voice deteriorated very quickly in the 70s. From the youtube extract, I hear an excellent orchestral and choral work - in quite splendid sound. Not so sure about Moffo's Carmen. Very conversational, as if she was afraid of letting the stops out. A curate's egg maybe?
In any case, thanks for the info, I had no idea it existed.
As good/interesting as Moffo is there she is but a sweet pussy cat compared to the power unleased by the tigress Maria Callas, what a smoldering tempestuous delivery..........if I could keep only one Carmen it would definitely be the Callas (too bad this was not done in mid 1950s in prime voice)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y7TAXKTDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Barak on January 14, 2010, 07:14:13 PM
These seem very late dates for both Moffo and Corelli (but not for the other cast membere though). Moffo's voice deteriorated very quickly in the 70s. From the youtube extract, I hear an excellent orchestral and choral work - in quite splendid sound. Not so sure about Moffo's Carmen. Very conversational, as if she was afraid of letting the stops out. A curate's egg maybe?
In any case, thanks for the info, I had no idea it existed.
Yes no doubt that Moffo had peaked out by early 1970s and was in decline, but we must make do with what is available..........very very cheap for collectors ;)
Seeing and hearing is believing! Callas never misses a beat on the music's difficult rythmic twists and turns. This is a swift rendition, making her verbal characterization all the more expressive. Watching her is a lesson in phrasing. Everything is enunciated with utmost clarity and expression (in that order in french opera). It's very difficult to sing those phrases, shutting the voice at the exact moment a word has been precisely enunciated. Most Carmens have their mouth open throughout the aria, and they make a meal of the words.
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 14, 2010, 07:25:02 PM
As good/interesting as Moffo is there she is but a sweet pussy cat compared to the power unleased by the tigress Maria Callas, what a smoldering tempestuous delivery..........if I could keep only one Carmen it would definitely be the Callas (too bad this was not done in mid 1950s in prime voice)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y7TAXKTDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Too bad Callas never performed the role on stage. Understandably perhaps, I find her Carmen totally convincing, but it is a controversial portrayal and there are many who don't like it at all. Barak, I recall, finds it too shrewish. For my part, I find her mercurial and unpredictable. Quick to anger, to be sure, but sexy and feminine too,
dangereuse et belle, as Micaela describes her. The set uses the now discredited Guiraud recitatives, to be sure, but in all other aspects is very French in feel, with a French conductor, orchestra, chorus and soloists. I prefer Pretre's swift conducting to Karajan's overblown, Germanic conception, for instance, beautifully though his orchestras play for him. Gedda, who also recorded Jose for Beecham, is the perfect embodiment of the nice boy gone bad, and sings in impeccable French (compare his delivery to Corelli's execrable French), Massard is a good, if not great Escamillo, and Guiot is, to my mind, a good deal better than many of her more famous counterparts, her aria firmly and cleanly sung, and with a certain amount of pluck; Micaela may be a nice girl, but she is no shrinking violet.
I'll just quote again, Richard Osborne's closing sentence , when reviewing the CD reissue of this set;
[Callas's] Carmen is one of those rare experiences like Piaf singing "La Vie En Rose" or Dietrich in "The Blue Angel" which is inimitable, unforgettable, and on no account to be missed./i]
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 14, 2010, 07:25:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8_aYZc9ew&feature=related)
I can't be as specifically appreciative as Barak, but I can say: WOWZA.
I think Callas' art is heard at its very best in this aria's middle section "l'oiseau que tu croyais surprendre' (about 2:00 - 2:30 in the clip). Watch and hear the combination of impeccable legato in the singing line with the words' enunciation.
As I mentioned, she has a way of inserting a micro second pause between each section of the couplet: l'oiseau que tu croyais surprendre/battit de l'aile et s'envola/ l'amour est loin/tu peux l'attendre/, etc. It never makes the aria sound sectional or the line syncopated. It's a masterclass in expression allied to one about breathing technique (all the breath intakes occur during one of these almost 'invisible' pauses). Toscanini is on record for commenting 'I have nothing personally against Callas. But you can't understand a word of what she's singing'. Right ::)
I still find Callas' commercial recording of Carmen unappealing. True, I used the word shrewish. Steely would be a good synonym for what I wanted to convey. IMO she had become more 'dangereuse' than 'belle' over the years. This 1962 video (and the Callas à Paris Carmen arias) were done before that. Callas vs Callas is setting the bar at an almost impossible level. I only find her wanting (in 1965) because she was so damn good in 1961-62.
I had the EMI Carmen for years on lp, and I preferred Bernstein's searing emotion and his singers' way of relating to one another (not to mention their excellent basic vocal colours). As a francophone I ought to have dissed it because of the often terrible accents, but the whole enterprise oozes sincerity and high drama, as well as being the most humorous Carmen I've come across. Vocally, I think Krause's Escamillo, Adriana Maliponte's Micaela, the various choruses and the two gipsy girls are just perfect. My favourite Habanera and Chanson gitane have always been Victoria de los Angeles'. She has a way of singing with a smile, a wink or a smirk you can actually 'hear'. And her French is unimpeachable. Time has passed, and I recently received the big EMI box set of all Callas recordings. I'll make a point to start my investigation with the 1965 Carmen and report in due time. Tant mieux if I come up with a better opinion of it.
Some commentators of the time (1956 or 57) have also mentioned that kind of unpleasantness with the Scala performances of Barbiere. She was formidable vocally, but many thought hers was a suffragette Rosina. I don't know (never heard the Scala performances), but that's the feeling I have with her various Carmens. The earlier ones are winsome AND also more interesting vocally (greater range of colours).
BTW I totally agree with Tsaras about the Karajan Carmen. All the vocal ingredients are first quality, but the dish is unpalatable. One of the worst french opera recordings of its era.
Barak, I take your point about Callas's voice having deteriorated quite markedly even since 1962, however I am often surprised, when listening to the complete 1964 set, at how economically she achieves her effects. Admittedly, as a concept, it lacks much of De Los Angeles's charm (possibly closer to Merimee than Bizet), but I feel the role cam take such an approach. I thought Baltsa was tremendous in the role, when I saw her at Covent Garden. She was refreshingly free of those awful hands on hip mannerisms most Carmens resort to, and played her almost as a wild, untamed animal. I bought the second Karajan recording on the strength of those performances, but was terribly disappointed, not in her, but in the whole recording, which, as I said, is turgid, Germanic and overblown in the extreme. Still, Baltsa and Carreras do manage to whip up something of a storm in their last duet. I also bought the Met DVD, but this suffers from many of the same problems, and I can't help feeling a certain amount of routine has crept into the performances of Baltsa and Carreras, which certainly wasn't there when I saw them at Covent Garden, quite early in their partnership in this opera. That Covent Garden performance remains one of the most memorable evenings of my opera going experience.
Incidentally, did you know that Legge originally wanted Callas for the Beecham recording? Beecham was happy with the choice, but Callas declined, saying her French was not yet good enough. How many other international singers would even consider such a thing?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51210VZ0SDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Callas comes first but.............
If not for Callas portrayal of the exotic firey sensous Carmen, best balanced overall Carmen opera "probably" has to go 1977 Abbado/LSO version now remastered for DG Originals, fits on 2CDs for extra savings. Another deep luxury cast:
Teresa Berganza - Placido Domingo, Ilena Cotrubas, Sherril Milnes
Berganza gives us the light care free spirit Carmen like a fresh summer breeze to contrast the darker seductive version of Callas, it works on its own terms but I prefer the Callas swagger. Domingo in prime voice makes great Don Jose, the deep supporting cast and great sound top off a great version with few obvious weakness. I do really like Berganza but prefer her in the more innocent roles like Rosina (barber seville) or Zerlina (don giovani) for Carmen I must have that sensous gypsy character..............
Tsaraslondon & Barak
Curious as to what your top 3 desert island picks are for Carmen, your must haves..........
Me too. I sense a Carmen in my future. 0:)
Youtube Callas Carmens make for fascinating comparisons. The Habanera from the EMI complete set is there, and it bears out some of the misgivings I have mentioned. What I hear is a deterioration of the registers that leads her to abuse of her chest tones. What was vocally seamless and chiselled in 1962 has become looser, with the voice vibrating more freely. I think it's the constant resort to chest tones that makes her sound harsher both vocally and histrionically. There's also a piano accompanied 1974 performance from Tokyo, where she pours out the tones with practically no deterioration in quality. It's the seams that are looser and not perfectly controlled. The basic material was still amazingly good. But don't make too much out of that criticism. I'm comparing the greatest singer of the last century(*) to herself. What's amazing is how well-suited her voice was in 1962. It doesn't sound at all as if the switch to mezzo roles was made out of necessity.
Also on Youtube is a 1972 De Los Angeles Habanera which does show substantial deterioration of the vocal material. Victoria's singing here is slightly breathy, unsupported in the lower register and not as alluring as in the Beecham set.
Carmen is one of those jinxed operas where no particular set achieves uniform distinction throughout. Something goes wrong one way or another. I would definitely put the Bernstein in the top three, warts and all. Cluytens' set is superb in most respects, but a constricted mono Carmen doesn't cut the mustard. Then there are the Beecham and Abbado sets, which I know only in parts. I own the Abbado, but haven't listened to it yet. I never owned the Beecham, but have heard many excerpts. I'm bothered by the cavernous sound. What about the Solti ? I don't expect perfection - there has never been a perfect Carmen. But the line up seems good. As I mentioned, I'll listen to the Callas Prêtre and Berganza Abbado this year - can't be more precise, as Carmen is an opera I adore but can't listen to repeatedly - contrary to the Bruckner 8 th ::) ;D
(*) in her chosen repertoire of course.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fk9A1TGQL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
The 1963 Karajan/VPO Carmen is not really a top contender, has some very good parts but also a fatal flaw.
Franco Corelli as Don Jose and Mirella Freni as Micaela shine brightly near thier peak singing career and HVK gives a decent orchestral account with VPO, but the fatal flaw is Leontyne Price just does not have Carmen in her blood.
No gypsy swagger, no smoldering sensuality.......just a lovely smoothed over presentation with no real character.
The opposite of Callas..........
I caught two Carmens on the wings, in bits and pieces. I do my errands on Saturday, and that's opera day on the radio. A Bavarian Opera production with Julia Gertseva and Jose Cura I heard about a month ago, and today's Met broadcast with Elina Garanca and Roberto Alagna. Barihunk Teddy Tahu Rhodes sang Escamillo in both. I didn't like him today. He turned the 'other man' into a nasty snarler, and his French is pretty atrocious. In any case, apart from minor defects, I was very impressed by what I heard in both productions.
Very good Carmens, but outstanding Don Josés. Apparently Alagna suffered from a bad cold and his cover sang from the wings in Act 3 (from what I gather - I missed it, but caught the after show comments). From what I heard of him he was very fine, with a powerfully expressive Flower Song. He shouldn't have attempted the piano ending though - it's a voice trap. Only male Caballés can make musical sense of it. But Alagna's forte is his incredible sense of the text and his unparalleled way with the French language. A textbook lesson in perfect diction delivered in the most natural way.
The Munich production featured darker-voiced principals. Indeed, I think Cura could sing Escamillo without any problem. Gertseva has a sumptuous, rich voice that easily encompasses the role's tessitura. I found this extract (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8c93q2x8wk) from the last act on youtube. Hard to tell if she would have been good in all aspects of the role (I heard most of Act II and III, but missed I entirely). Conversely, I heard the second half of Act I and most of Act II, but missed III in the Met Carmen. Lively conducting from Yannick Nézet-Séguin.
Speaking of Rhodes' bad French, it makes me think of Tsaraslondon's comment about Callas' refusal to sing the role because of imperfect French. Ayayaye ! I'm not sure about that one. When she sang 'Callas à Paris' in 1961, she was coached by Janine Reiss for the language part. Reiss certainly did an extraordinary job, because there is no trace of a 'foreign' accent on that disc (I recall a very sligfht instance or two in the whole album :o. ). Today's Carmen, Garanca sang extremely well, but had minor issued with the language. She sang Je té pousserai instead of Je te pousserai. No big deal, except it changed the meaning from 'I wil push you' to 'I will marry you'. Minuscule glitches like that make the 'native' brain stop and the flow of the music is lost. I think that's why I'll never be 100% satisfied with any single version.
I forgot to mention a good contender in the record sweepstakes: the Frühbeck EMI benefits from lively and very elegant playing, possibly the best since Cluytens. Excellent playing, choral singing, sound and comprimarii. I've never liked Freni's prissy Micaela nor Vickers' crooning José, but better that than the pumped up, strangulated capon that occasionally ventures in the streets of Séville...
QuoteI forgot to mention a good contender in the record sweepstakes: the Frühbeck EMI benefits from lively and very elegant playing, possibly the best since Cluytens. Excellent playing, choral singing, sound and comprimarii. I've never liked Freni's prissy Micaela nor Vickers' crooning José, but better that than the pumped up, strangulated capon that occasionally ventures in the streets of Séville...
Yes that is one of the better versions and very cheap now on 2CD EMI Gemini series, I will choose
Grace Bumbry easily over Leotyne Price, she has a little of that gypsy blood I believe (still not quite a Callas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs0E2CufQ7c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs0E2CufQ7c)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TYJSV8WYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
That Burgos is a favourite version of mine. It was, I think, the first to use spoken dialogue and some small excised part was restored in Act 1. I like Vickers a great deal, at least he puts meaning into his singing. Bumbry has always been criticised for being under characterised in the role, but I enjoy her a lot. The card scene is especially dramatic and I especially enjoy Burgos' way with the score.
Mind you.....I enjoy Price, I like that set, except that the whole thing sounds overblown, like it is by Verdi, it loses points for losing the feel of being a French opera.
Bernstein mauls some of the music. I enjoy Horne a lot, but her Don I find hard on the ear.
For my taste, de los Angeles is too nice...the dark side seems missing to my ears.
Ozawa surprised me and Jessye Norman provides what sounds like excellent French. She has both the playful and the cruel in her voice and also restrains herself. She does not flood the role with the sheer sound of her voice, no Isolde here. I think it is a very successful take on the part, though Norman and Gypsy are not an obvious combination.
BTW, she had the same remarkable French language coach as did Callas.
The Jose for Norman is Shicoff who is the Shirley Bassey of Tenors, everything is at full throttle and he is constantly in a state of high drama. Freni is rather too old for her repeat of the sidekick, but overall, the set gives me a lot of pleasure.
Mike
I used to have the Fruhbeck de Burgos on LP, but, though well sung, I always found Bumbry's Carmen a little anonymous, rather like the Carmen of Troyanos on the Solti.
Baltsa was a favourite Carmen of mine in the theatre, in fact the best I have ever seen, but she has to contend with Karajan's conducting (slow and overblown), and the use of an actor to speak her dialogue. Lord knows why; she sounded perfectly capable when I saw her on stage. I also like Carreras as Jose and Van Dam's Escamillo (also to be heard on Abbado and Solti), but Ricciarelli is little short of disastrous as Micaela. There is also a DVD of Baltsa singing the role with Carreras at the Met. It's not bad, but, again, somewhat overblown, and, by this time Baltsa and Carreras had been singing their roles all over the world together for quite some time, and there is just the hint of routine in their performances.
Abbado's set with Berganza has always been a contender, and she does the Gallic charm part very well, but for me she lacks that last ounce of gypsy fire, rather like De Los Angeles on the Beecham.
Callas's recording hasn't always had a good press, and I keep trying others, but it is always the recording I return to most often - and not just for Callas. I like Pretre's swift, no nonsense conducting, the plucky Micaela of Guiot, the boastful, swaggering Escamillo of Massard, and Gedda's impeccably sung Jose. And Callas's Carmen, endlessly fascinating, is never quite as I remember it. There is always something, sometimes a small aside, sometimes a phrase shown in relief , that is not quite as i remembered it. And, as Barak mentions, she is one of the few non French singers to deliver the language easily and fluently, and as if she actually understands what she is singing about. Without question, it would be my desert island choice. I could easily do without 2 more (which Dark Angel allows) and save those for something else.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511MH8AC0CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F5PBR6DFL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Great discussion going, placed an order for this 3CD older 1973 live Solti version that has the deep luxury cast:
Shirley Verrett - Placido Domingo, Kiri Te Kiwana, Jose van Dam
Some comments say Verrett is the only singer to seriously challenge Callas as the sensuos gypsy with a firey cat on the prowl performance. Very deep supporting cast, live sound has typical stage noises, moving around etc.
The Opera d'Oro version in 2nd photo was much cheaper so I opted for that.....will report upon arrival.
Anyone have this now?
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 17, 2010, 12:15:46 AM
I used to have the Fruhbeck de Burgos on LP, but, though well sung, I always found Bumbry's Carmen a little anonymous, rather like the Carmen of Troyanos on the Solti.
Baltsa was a favourite Carmen of mine in the theatre, in fact the best I have ever seen, but she has to contend with Karajan's conducting (slow and overblown), and the use of an actor to speak her dialogue. Lord knows why; she sounded perfectly capable when I saw her on stage. I also like Carreras as Jose and Van Dam's Escamillo (also to be heard on Abbado and Solti), but Ricciarelli is little short of disastrous as Micaela. There is also a DVD of Baltsa singing the role with Carreras at the Met. It's not bad, but, again, somewhat overblown, and, by this time Baltsa and Carreras had been singing their roles all over the world together for quite some time, and there is just the hint of routine in their performances.
Abbado's set with Berganza has always been a contender, and she does the Gallic charm part very well, but for me she lacks that last ounce of gypsy fire, rather like De Los Angeles on the Beecham.
Callas's recording hasn't always had a good press, and I keep trying others, but it is always the recording I return to most often - and not just for Callas. I like Pretre's swift, no nonsense conducting, the plucky Micaela of Guiot, the boastful, swaggering Escamillo of Massard, and Gedda's impeccably sung Jose. And Callas's Carmen, endlessly fascinating, is never quite as I remember it. There is always something, sometimes a small aside, sometimes a phrase shown in relief , that is not quite as i remembered it. And, as Barak mentions, she is one of the few non French singers to deliver the language easily and fluently, and as if she actually understands what she is singing about. Without question, it would be my desert island choice. I could easily do without 2 more (which Dark Angel allows) and save those for something else.
Many good points, I agree as alluded to earlier that
Berganza lacks the sensous gypsy fire of Callas but by default the overall quality of entire performance moves Abbado/DG near the top of any Carmen shortlist, seems any Carmen discussion must always come back to comparisons to Callas
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XAQNDV8YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21SYYGZ0ZCL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Knight
I pulled out the 1958-1959 Beecham/EMI in the newest GROC remaster with De Los Angeles as Carmen, I am feel the same that it is very good but again despite the cult status afforded this version (as evidenced by astronomical prices on Amazon) Carmen is is too safe and lacks some fire that any top version must have. We get Gedda as Done Jose again....very active in recording Carmens!
Beecham does a very good job orchestrally, but the sound is not great for 1959 studio performance and the sound become grainy during peak climax passages even with this remaster.........BTW I love to buy these deluxe EMI Great Recording of the Century versions, booklet is always packed with cool stuff :)
Quote from: Barak on January 16, 2010, 04:53:00 PM
I caught two Carmens on the wings, in bits and pieces. I do my errands on Saturday, and that's opera day on the radio. A Bavarian Opera production with Julia Gertseva and Jose Cura I heard about a month ago, and today's Met broadcast with Elina Garanca and Roberto Alagna. ...
Very good Carmens, but outstanding Don Josés. Apparently Alagna suffered from a bad cold and his cover sang from the wings in Act 3 (from what I gather - I missed it, but caught the after show comments).
Actually, that happened during the final dress rehearsal, last December. Alagna's sung the entire role for all the actual peformances, including yesterday's broadcast. Brandon Jovanovich, who gave Alagna the offstage assist, is scheduled to make his Met debut as José on January 27th.
Thanks, Wendell. I gather that the whole performance went quite well, then. Following the performance there was a fascinating interview with Alagna (on CBC's french network). I never had a high opinion of him but he came across as very outgoing, frank and totally un-divo. He stressed the primary importance of words and diction in french opera. I was glad to hear someone agree with me on that one :D. In particular, he tries to go back to the sort of natural declamation made so unique by Georges Thill. He specifically mentioned the importance of naturally rolled R in the french language. Anyone listening to Alagna singing in french opera will notice how differently the R is sounded. I tried different tongue/larynx positions to figure how he does it. Not exactly easy, as it differs substantially from the conversational - spoken one.
Hopefully a record or video will come out from the met and Munich productions. The leads are all physically personable and totally credible in terms of appearance and age (that was the weak point of the Bernstein set, with an Aunt Jemima of a Carmen and a José who would make anybody raise eyebrows in disbelief at Carmen's declaration 'Je suis amoureuse - Amoureuse à perdre l'esprit!.
BTW, I agree with Tsaras' assessment of the DG Carmen. I bought that and resold it after a couple of years. This is a humourless, joyless, sometimes brutal Carmen. Much like his contemporaneous take on Don Giovanni. Best forgotten.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ch2movO9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Was able to get the Sinopoli/Teldec Carmen with Jennifer Larmore for good price........but I fear this may have to be sold eventually, not sold on Larmore's more mature rendition, not enough dramatic effect, a bit too straight I don't feel any sizzle from Carmen. Sinopli does a good job orchestrally along with very good chorals, some supporting cast are noteworthy including Sam Ramey as Escamillo and Angela Gheorghiu as Micaela.
I'll give it some time and another listen before selling...........anyone feel strongly in favor of this one, am I missing something?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QQK27807L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsuP0uta7s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsuP0uta7s)
I finally checked into this cult 1984 DVD movie performance by Julia Migenes........wow what a femme fatale Carmen!
A young looking Placido Domingo makes a great partner, has that bohemian feel I love, no wonder the price on used market is outrageous, I need this :o
You mean it's OOP ? It definitely has to be seen as well as heard. Migenes is a light weight Carmen, saved by her looks and acting. It's not an actual staging, but a bona fide film version (Francesco Rosi, director).
In its genre it has not been equalled. Recommended.
Quote from: Barak on January 20, 2010, 05:40:25 PM
You mean it's OOP ? It definitely has to be seen as well as heard. Migenes is a light weight Carmen, saved by her looks and acting. It's not an actual staging, but a bona fide film version (Francesco Rosi, director).
Only $179 at Amazon............... :(
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QQK27807L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Another CD version I would buy if price were not ridiculous is the Cluytens........
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/212V4ZG4V9L._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
If you can tolerate dated sound (serviceable and wide-ranging, but no more), this has claims to be the most idiomatic and satisfying Carmen around.
You can dowlnoad the whole thing for 1 euro HERE (http://www.classicalmusicmobile.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=29&osCsid=223947009e0a904b0598a8033ed23fcf). I use this site regularly and never had any problem. It's mp3 but then, it's an old recording anyway, so I don't think much - if anything - is lost in translation. What's an euro? 1.50$
barak
Can't beat that MP3 price.....
I also see that Archiv Music has the Cluytens in CD version for reasonable price as re-issue, didn't realize it was that old in mono 1950 sound........will hold for now. Solange Michel has over 500 stage performances of Carmen so she really knows the part
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/emi65318.jpg)
I always prefer to have a nice commercial CD issue, but as you say, you can't beat that price. I just purchased Fournet's Les Pêcheurs de perles, Cluytens' Symphony in C and Callas's Medea (1953 under Bernstein), all for 3 euros.
Quote from: Barak on January 22, 2010, 04:47:39 PM
I always prefer to have a nice commercial CD issue, but as you say, you can't beat that price. I just purchased Fournet's Les Pêcheurs de perles, Cluytens' Symphony in C and Callas's Medea (1953 under Bernstein), all for 3 euros.
I just purchased my first Pearl Fishers a couple weeks ago..........
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VK8DR9CGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I have most of my Callas bases covered a couple years ago with this purchase ;)
($70 for 70 CD boxset at Amazon)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NewJ7K1pL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Got that Callas set last year, but haven't listened to anything yet - mind you, no rush as I already have (had) 3/4 of them. It's a beautiful product, no doubt, and at the price, it nicely fills all the gaps in one's collection :D
DA, you should enjoy that Pearlfishers. All roles are filled in by excellent singers. Not 100% sure about Aler's style in his great aria 'Je cois entendre encore', one of the most difficult of the whole tenor repertoire. For a *different* take on this popular aria, try Tino Rossi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1raDr4RJAE). TR was the Bing Crosby of french radio and music hall scenes of the 30s and 40s, but his voice production, phrasing and enunciation hark back to the kind of stuff Bizet would have been familiar with. Nowadays, Vanzo and Simoneau are often touted as the models of that style. They simply had to listen to their mother's radio and hear it from the true practitioners of the art.
A few Youtubes excerpts later, I can only confirm the above. Even the liquid silver voice of Sergei Lemeshev doesn't achieve that kind of postorgasmic crooning. Tricky, as the ethereal high notes are followed by a treacherous descent into the lower register at "comme un chant de ramiers" (many croak or disapperar altogether here). I'll try to get ahold of Aler's art here (maybe my favourite tenor aria). For the moment Simoneau, Vanzo and Rossi reign supreme.
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 17, 2010, 04:41:25 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511MH8AC0CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F5PBR6DFL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Great discussion going, placed an order for this 3CD older 1973 live Solti version that has the deep luxury cast:
Shirley Verrett - Placido Domingo, Kiri Te Kiwana, Jose van Dam
Some comments say Verrett is the only singer to seriously challenge Callas as the sensuos gypsy with a firey cat on the prowl performance.
I had high expectations for a seductive sassy Carmen performance from
Shirley Verrett after the hype I read at Amazon, but it did not work out that way for me. Callas has nothing to fear from this rival performance, also 1973 Solti is a bit relaxed for my taste and doesn't have the excitement shown in his later Decca recording with Troyanos
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 20, 2010, 12:25:43 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ch2movO9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Was able to get the Sinopoli/Teldec Carmen with Jennifer Larmore for good price........but I fear this may have to be sold eventually, not sold on Larmore's more mature rendition, not enough dramatic effect, a bit too straight I don't feel any sizzle from Carmen. Sinopli does a good job orchestrally along with very good chorals, some supporting cast are noteworthy including Sam Ramey as Escamillo and Angela Gheorghiu as Micaela.
I like this a bit better now after 2nd listen and will keep it despite expecting more from Larmore's Carmen, price was very good used and I suspect I would later regret selling it ::)
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 20, 2010, 02:43:48 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QQK27807L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsuP0uta7s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsuP0uta7s)
I finally checked into this cult 1984 DVD movie performance by Julia Migenes........wow what a femme fatale Carmen! A young looking Placido Domingo makes a great partner, has that bohemian feel I love, no wonder the price on used market is outrageous, I need this :o
I was not going to get ripped off for extremely high used price at Amazon for complete Migenes Carmen CD set, but did order a 1 CD highlights to tide me over for low price............
Good decision. That'll do nicely until you get to see Migenes 'in the flesh' - seeing is believing!
Quote from: Barak on January 27, 2010, 05:21:47 PM
Good decision. That'll do nicely until you get to see Migenes 'in the flesh' - seeing is believing!
At least we have youtube videos to get a taste............
Have you seen the
Callas Forever movie where Maria Callas (Fanny Ardant) is asked to star in a Carmen movie and lip sync to her original vocal recording? Not a great movie but entertaining for Callas fans, notice the "head toss" that Ardant uses to mimic Callas singing style :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITvRxoIKNBM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITvRxoIKNBM)
I haven't seen it, but this clip is certainly entertaining. Fanny Ardant (long time companion of François Truffaut) is one of my favourite actresses. She has a magnetism that is irresistible. She seems to do more with the facial expressions than Callas did. Not overinterpreting, but really living up every moment of the aria. Callas (in concert) was more playful - she never lets the smile go away.
What role does Jeremy Irons play in the film? He, too, is one of my faves!
Quote from: Barak on January 28, 2010, 06:24:17 PM
What role does Jeremy Irons play in the film? He, too, is one of my faves!
Jeremy Irons is a gay producer friend of Callas who talks her into coming out of retirement to star in a Carmen film that uses her old EMI vocal recording that she can lip sync to.......at first she is very reluctant to lip sync but eventually agrees to do the project for new generation of fans........
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 27, 2010, 12:18:13 PM
I had high expectations for a seductive sassy Carmen performance from Shirley Verrett after the hype I read at Amazon, but it did not work out that way for me. Callas has nothing to fear from this rival performance, also 1973 Solti is a bit relaxed for my taste and doesn't have the excitement shown in his later Decca recording with Troyanos
How is the sound? I bought three or four Opera d'Oro issues and found only one to have acceptable sound quality, and that turned out to be a reissue of a studio recording.
Quote from: kishnevi on January 28, 2010, 07:42:45 PM
How is the sound? I bought three or four Opera d'Oro issues and found only one to have acceptable sound quality, and that turned out to be a reissue of a studio recording.
The live 1973 sound for vocals is pretty decent but there is plenty of stage noise since a large cast is on stage for many scences with lots of movement, also Solti is not as ideally dramatic as his later Decca recording (sounds more refined like Karajan orchestrally)
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 15, 2010, 11:46:25 PM
I thought Baltsa was tremendous in the role, when I saw her at Covent Garden. She was refreshingly free of those awful hands on hip mannerisms most Carmens resort to, and played her almost as a wild, untamed animal. I bought the second Karajan recording on the strength of those performances, but was terribly disappointed, not in her, but in the whole recording, which, as I said, is turgid, Germanic and overblown in the extreme. Still, Baltsa and Carreras do manage to whip up something of a storm in their last duet.
I agree that
Agnes Baltsa herself has great Carmen potential, but Karajan a bit too lax orchestrally and the CD version has the kiss of death.......actors doing spoken parts!
Despite those handicaps I may get a cheap used version for Baltsa's passionate Carmen
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If I were Carmen, I would not mind this Toreador at all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-g6tsbAhI&feature=related
Besides vocal mastery, Hvorostovsky achieves the maximum dramatic effect by means of well-timed facial expressions instead of trotting out extra-musical gimmicks.
ZB
There's a new Carmen DVD with Elina Garanca, Roberto Alagna, and the Met, and it got a rave review (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13024) from Robert Levine, who observes, "for once the last-act prelude does not sound like cats knocking over trash cans." ;D
Quote from: Brian on October 19, 2010, 01:11:36 AM
There's a new Carmen DVD with Elina Garanca, Roberto Alagna, and the Met, and it got a rave review (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13024) from Robert Levine, who observes, "for once the last-act prelude does not sound like cats knocking over trash cans." ;D
So we might want to give a little credit (at least a mention) to conductor Yannick Nézet-Séguin. ;D
Quote from: Brian on October 19, 2010, 01:11:36 AM
There's a new Carmen DVD with Elina Garanca, Roberto Alagna, and the Met, and it got a rave review (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13024) from Robert Levine, who observes, "for once the last-act prelude does not sound like cats knocking over trash cans." ;D
Sounds worth getting to know, and I always prefer Alagna in French opera anyway.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 25, 2007, 04:28:21 PM
There are two reasons the CD you have stinks:
1) Karajan: The most effortful conducting of this opera ever, completely misses the humor and wit. Actually not unlike his conducting of La Boheme and M. Butterfly. Some extremely plodding tempi and allowing L. Price to milk it add to the drugery.
2) L. Price: A complete miscast. She makes a good Aida and Amelia(in Ballo) but utterly lacks any charm as Carmen. The spinto voice is just wrong for the role. Get the feeling that she dislikes the role? Because she sure does. Fact: she sings that role because like Isolde it is a hot-ticket role for big $$$. Since no one in their right mind would indulge her in recording Isolde she settled for the next best thing.
I have the misfortune of owning the complete Karajan/Price set. You are fortunate, you only have 1 disc.
Absolutely AGREE with you.
Btw ... I owned that
RCA Soria and
BMG CD's version.
But don't forget ...
Solti (DECCA) or
Bernstein (DGG) ... it's a great CARMEN recordings also.
Quote from: Mensch on April 26, 2007, 11:31:25 AM
How about Solti with Troyanos, Domingo, Te Kanawa, van Dam? I am rather fond of that set.
Me too! That's Solti DECCA ... the sound is good also.
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 29, 2010, 04:09:55 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4161NY80VDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Oh my God! How can I forget this recording? It's good also.
Quote from: czgirb on December 26, 2010, 10:12:46 PM
Oh my God! How can I forget this recording? It's good also.
I commented on this recording earlier in the topic. Baltsa and Carreras are very good (almost as good as when I saw them in the roles at Covent Garden), but Karajan's ponderous, overblown conducting, and the use of actors to speak the singers' parts puts it out of the running for me. Ricciarelli is completely miscast as Micaela too, though the rest of the singers are pretty good. I will always treasure it as a memento of two great stage performances, but it's hardly a first choice.
As a spin-off from another thread I found a 1909 recording of the contralto Jeanne Gerville-Réache singing Habarnera and the Cards Aria. There's some interesting interpretation in the second part of the Habanera where she practically speaks the words, like telling the guys on stage - a nice touch.
She takes more breaths than most singers, probably. Whether this was a physical fault or nervousness is speculation. But maybe the public back then wasn't so demanding regarding actual technique. But the sound of the voice is lovely, in my opinion, even though this recording is probably a very poor reflection of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy9d9-rZegc&feature=related
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on March 13, 2011, 10:14:19 AM
As a spin-off from another thread I found a 1909 recording of the contralto Jeanne Gerville-Réache singing Habarnera and the Cards Aria. There's some interesting interpretation in the second part of the Habanera where she practically speaks the words, like telling the guys on stage - a nice touch.
She takes more breaths than most singers, probably. Whether this was a physical fault or nervousness is speculation. But maybe the public back then wasn't so demanding regarding actual technique. But the sound of the voice is lovely, in my opinion, even though this recording is probably a very poor reflection of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy9d9-rZegc&feature=related
ZB
This
Habanera is so wrong... but so compelling! It's truly a capricious gypsy woman, a mixture of flirtation and mockery. I love it. 8)
Quote from: Il Conte Rodolfo on March 29, 2011, 04:28:20 AM
This Habanera is so wrong... but so compelling! It's truly a capricious gypsy woman, a mixture of flirtation and mockery. I love it. 8)
Wrong for the era in which it was composed? 1875, the year of the first production of Carmen, is closer to 1909 than 2009. Instrumentalists and singers took, which would seem to us, astounding liberties at the end and turn of the 20th century - a kind of improvisation and putting one's individual stamp on the work.
ZB
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 20, 2010, 07:14:09 PM
Only $179 at Amazon............... :(
Very interesting. I have the VHS tape and did my own personal transfer to DVD. Not professional quality, of course, but the price was right. It's a must-see.
Hello,
What's your favourite approach to Don José? What's more important to you, a raging final scene or an overall performance including the softer nuances in the previous acts?
It always striked me as a difficult opera to get into - it has long slow moments for me. I have not found a wholly acceptable version to watch or listen too -maybe i need to see some of the more recent DVDs
What is do have are the cds on the Chandos in English label - Carmen with Patricia Bardon - not listened to it in a long time. Find the English quite stilted.
I also have the Carmen conducted by Sinopoli and with Jennifer Larmore as Carmen, Angela Gheorghiu as Michaela - again not brilliant.
On DVD i have seen the old Covent Garden with Luis Lima and Maria Ewing conducted by Zubin Mehta - now i did like this but is has aged now and i have it only on VHS.
What about the current crop of DVDs?
Anna Caterina Antonacci in the John Eliot Gardiner conducted production from Paris? or the same singer with Jonas Kaufmann in London? Or as some have mentioned the Alagna/Garanca from the Met.
I must admit i like Kaufmann in some roles but his 'thick' voice takes some getting used to. I love both Alagna and Garanca so maybe that is the one for me.
For me, the main character of this opera is not Carmen, but Don Jose: a fragile, weak and impressionable man, vacillating between pure love & filial piety and the (inexorable) appeal of carnal love & lust. His only and fatal moment of strength and resolution is indeed in the final scene, when he is at last able to make his mind and carry it through the ultimate consequences. (In this respect, I strongly urge you to read the original Prosper Merimee's story, one of the forgotten yet quintessential masterpieces of Romanticism).
Now, this very opera is one of the main reasons for me being hooked on Classical music and THE reason I am an avid opera fan --- and it has remained my favorite opera ever since . I was in my early teens when I first watched in cinema Francesco Rosi's production with Placido Domingo and Julia Migenes-Johnson and I was literally spellbound. I watched it (alone) twice in a week and forced my parents into watching it together with me the following week. Words fail me --- I cannot properly describe the effect it had on me (I can only compare it, in terms of the lasting and positive impact it had on my life, with Zefirellli's Jesus of Nazareth.).
So, for pure sentimental reasons this is my favorite version.
The only other recording I own of this opera is
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/816YHfPwxIL._UF350,350_QL50_.jpg)
But I am sure that no matter what recording I'll ever hear, the shivers over my spine would be the same.
Quote from: Il Conte Rodolfo on April 25, 2011, 09:56:18 AMFor me, the main character of this opera is not Carmen, but Don Jose: a fragile, weak and impressionable man, vacillating between pure love & filial piety and the (inexorable) appeal of carnal love & lust. His only and fatal moment of strength and resolution is indeed in the final scene, when he is at last able to make his mind and carry it through the ultimate consequences. (In this respect, I strongly urge you to read the original Prosper Merimee's story, one of the forgotten yet quintessential masterpieces of Romanticism).
Now, this very opera is one of the main reasons for me being hooked on Classical music and THE reason I am an avid opera fan --- and it has remained my favorite opera ever since . I was in my early teens when I first watched in cinema Francesco Rosi's production with Placido Domingo and Julia Migenes-Johnson and I was literally spellbound. I watched it (alone) twice in a week and forced my parents into watching it together with me the following week. Words fail me --- I cannot properly describe the effect it had on me (I can only compare it, in terms of the lasting and positive impact it had on my life, with Zefirellli's Jesus of Nazareth.).
So, for pure sentimental reasons this is my favorite version.
The only other recording I own of this opera is
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/816YHfPwxIL._UF350,350_QL50_.jpg)
But I am sure that no matter what recording I'll ever hear, the shivers over my spine would be the same.
What a fabulous story, thanks for posting it.
I love hearing about other people's opera journeys.
hi, on vinyl, which are your favourite gypsy song and Toreador?
Quote from: Florestan on April 25, 2011, 09:56:18 AMFor me, the main character of this opera is not Carmen, but Don Jose. I was in my early teens when I first watched in cinema Francesco Rosi's production with Placido Domingo and Julia Migenes-Johnson
I absolutely agree that José is the central character, and this is his tragedy. Carmen is more acted upon than active. The tragedy is José's degradation and final collapse from honorable soldier to maniacal murderer.
And that Rosi film! incredible, one of the best cinematically conceived operas ever and not at all just a filmed staged production.
Another good version is Rise Stevens with Fritz Reiner, not mentioned here so far.
Quote from: Florestan on April 25, 2011, 09:56:18 AMFor me, the main character of this opera is not Carmen, but Don Jose: a fragile, weak and impressionable man, vacillating between pure love & filial piety and the (inexorable) appeal of carnal love & lust. His only and fatal moment of strength and resolution is indeed in the final scene, when he is at last able to make his mind and carry it through the ultimate consequences. (In this respect, I strongly urge you to read the original Prosper Merimee's story, one of the forgotten yet quintessential masterpieces of Romanticism).
Now, this very opera is one of the main reasons for me being hooked on Classical music and THE reason I am an avid opera fan --- and it has remained my favorite opera ever since . I was in my early teens when I first watched in cinema Francesco Rosi's production with Placido Domingo and Julia Migenes-Johnson and I was literally spellbound. I watched it (alone) twice in a week and forced my parents into watching it together with me the following week. Words fail me --- I cannot properly describe the effect it had on me (I can only compare it, in terms of the lasting and positive impact it had on my life, with Zefirellli's Jesus of Nazareth.).
So, for pure sentimental reasons this is my favorite version.
The only other recording I own of this opera is
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/816YHfPwxIL._UF350,350_QL50_.jpg)
But I am sure that no matter what recording I'll ever hear, the shivers over my spine would be the same.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 15, 2024, 08:20:26 PMI absolutely agree that José is the central character, and this is his tragedy. Carmen is more acted upon than active. The tragedy is José's degradation and final collapse from honorable soldier to maniacal murderer.
And that Rosi film! incredible, one of the best cinematically conceived operas ever and not at all just a filmed staged production.
Another good version is Rise Stevens with Fritz Reiner, not mentioned here so far.
I recall really enjoying the film (probably either saw it on t.v. or rented the video). I then ran across the recording of it, but found that I didn't enjoy it that much. I don't own many recordings of
Carmen, but I do enjoy the one that I have with Callas/Prêtre.
PD