the saddest music

[Grazioso]

The resigned ending of Pettersson's 7th (after all the tumult and heartache and luminous beauty that have gone before it) and Barber's Adagio for Strings rank up there.

[sidoze]

I'm surprised no one (sidoze especially) has mentioned Chopin's Fourth and Sixth Preludes - the latter even more so than the former. That Sixth Prelude conjures up images of a lonely, elderly man - perhaps living in a Paris apartment in some foreign language film noir - looking alternately at letters from a lover long lost, and at the rain-soaked cafe chairs that line the empty streets below his window. Attached to one of the letters, a faded photograph of a woman, taken many years ago in happier times. Very moving indeed.

haha a little too much detail there! Of course those preludes are sad, as are the second and bittersweet thirteenth and seventeenth preludes (you could say the twentieth too). Chopin in general is disconsolate like this, especially some of the waltzes and mazurkas. One of my favourite ones is Nocturne op. 62/2, but only played by Tipo or Pogorelich who turn it into a last dance and miserable dirge respectively (every other pianist dashes or stampedes through the central section which completely ruins it). This is what I'd call nostalgic sadness, which is also how I think of those two sighs at the end of Tchaikovsky's 6th. That's the sort of sadness I had in mind. Schnittke, Pettersson, I've heard those works but find them too miserable, almost suicidal (though there is a sort of suicidal nostalgic sadness like in Jerzy Petersburski's This is Our Last Sunday (Weary Sun, otherwise called the Suicide Tango, but that is far removed from the, let's say, earnestness of Schnittke and Pettersson).

On another note, this thread wasn't started for the purpose of giving negative opinions on the pieces mentioned. We all know that we're not all going to agree with each other, that some will seem overindulgent or banal. I just wanted to see which pieces people react to. Some obviously think of sadness as a much harsher feeling than I do (as mentioned above).

Mahler's Kindertotenlieder; wide swaths of the Adagio of Mahler's 9th; the slow middle section of Chopin's first Scherzo (in the right hands).  Schubert wrote a good amount of such music - some of those lieder, don't listen if you want to smile.

I agree with all these though the Kindertotenlieder is just a little too morbid    I'd also mention Chopin's 4th ballade (Leo Sirota for sadness).

[Varg]

Spot on! And sad without being selfindulgent, which is a hard trick to pull, and which I think several of the works discussed in this thread are.

How can you tell when a work is selfindulgent... or what do you mean exactly with selfindulgent? I'm not very learned of english language; the only thing i see is that it means simple, technically uninteresting, not much going on... etc. Care to enlight me?

[Mark]

On another note, to the two winos who felt like taking an indirect swipe at some of the choices -- save it, this isn't the place, we all know we're not going to like all the choices and the thread was set up just to see which pieces people react to.

Here, here.

[Peregrine]

On another note, to the two winos who felt like taking an indirect swipe at some of the choices

Hey! I haven't said anything yet

[Mark]

Hey! I haven't said anything yet

Get back in that alley, bum!

[sidoze]

damn! I tried to edit that before you guys copied it! hahaha oh well

[Peregrine]

Get back in that alley, bum!

[12tone.]

How can you tell when a work is selfindulgent... or what do you mean exactly with selfindulgent? I'm not very learned of english language; the only thing i see is that it means simple, technically uninteresting, not much going on... etc. Care to enlight me?

Self indulgent is almost a feeling the listener can have if he or she feels the composer is putting in more than he should, whether that be emotion, orchestration or what have you. 

If ever you listen to a peice and start rolling your eyes saying 'Oh, come on' that would be self indulgent.

[Peregrine]

I'll plum for Sospiri, Op.70/Elgar, as well as Schubert's D.940, D.960 and the andantino from D.959

[The new erato]

Self indulgent is almost a feeling the listener can have if he or she feels the composer is putting in more than he should, whether that be emotion, orchestration or what have you. 

If ever you listen to a peice and start rolling your eyes saying 'Oh, come on' that would be self indulgent.

Good explanation for what I meant; of course what works does that is a personal "feeling" or how you experience a particular work, all I meant that Pettersson IMO avoids going "over the top" in a way I feel other composers don't. As in the difference between wallowing in one's misery vs. handling the misery and moving on.

[Mark]

I'll add Britten's 'Sentimental Saraband' from his Simple Symphony (for string quartet); it has a bittersweet quality that's at once sad and joyful in a nostalgic kind of way. There's even a section of it that gets quite stormy - it reminds me of part of the funeral march from Beethoven's 'Eroica' Symphony, another very sad piece under the right baton.

[c#minor]

Schubert wrote a good amount of such music - some of those lieder, don't listen if you want to smile.

Very much so, among the saddest is Gretchen am Spinrede.

Wonderful, but so sad.

[Scriptavolant]

I would cite Mahler's Adagietto from the Fifth and the Finale from his Ninth, or Schubert "Winterreise". But there's a very interesting definition I read about the latter, which describes the work as symbolic of a "vacuum far beyond despair". I think that's appropriate, so I don't think these are properly "sad" works.
I would like to add Honegger 3rd symphony and of course many works by G.F. Malipiero.

[Peregrine]

I'll add Britten's 'Sentimental Saraband' from his Simple Symphony (for string quartet); it has a bittersweet quality that's at once sad and joyful in a nostalgic kind of way.

Nice choice 

[Mark]

A number of mentions so far of Mahler's Ninth ... but how about the closing pages of his Tenth? Okay, it wasn't finished at his death, and to hear the finale doesn't necessarily make you sad. But consider what Mahler wrote on the score towards the very end of the work: 'Alma - To live for you, to die for you.' It's so moving to know that despite the inevitability of losing the love of his life to another man, Mahler could still write such honest music that expressed his deep feelings for his wife. Now that's sad.

[orbital]

Intentionally or not, dear old Bach wrote some sad music too. I find some of the Choral Preludes (BWV 639 or 659 for example) quite sad. Also Siciliano from the Flute sonata, second movment of concerto BWV 1042, larghetto from the oboe concerto in A and many more that I can't remember now

[sidoze]

Intentionally or not, dear old Bach wrote some sad music too. I find some of the Choral Preludes (BWV 639 or 659 for example) quite sad. Also Siciliano from the Flute sonata, second movment of concerto BWV 1042, larghetto from the oboe concerto in A and many more that I can't remember now

Just heard the E-flat minor P&F from bk1 of the WTC. 

[greg]

A number of mentions so far of Mahler's Ninth ... but how about the closing pages of his Tenth? Okay, it wasn't finished at his death, and to hear the finale doesn't necessarily make you sad. But consider what Mahler wrote on the score towards the very end of the work: 'Alma - To live for you, to die for you.' It's so moving to know that despite the inevitability of losing the love of his life to another man, Mahler could still write such honest music that expressed his deep feelings for his wife. Now that's sad.

i actually didn't even know about that comment....
anyways, i could understand him 100% and i'm not even married 
(in a sort of vague unrelated way)

[Mark]

i actually didn't even know about that comment....
anyways, i could understand him 100% and i'm not even married 
(in a sort of vague unrelated way)

It's changed the way I hear the whole symphony, and made it my favourite after Nos. 4, 5 and 7.