Coronavirus thread

[Pohjolas Daughter]

That's not entirely it. The Minister is using a different cancellation power to the one available to immigration officials, and that different power has different grounds for cancellation.

I won't claim to know all the ins and outs of the Migration Act and Migration Regulations (heaven knows they are insanely long and complex), but there are a number of sections that very explicitly say "this is a power that can only be exercised by the Minister, not delegated to anyone else". And so the Minister isn't trying to redo the same cancellation decision, he's done a different cancellation decision that wasn't available to the officials at the border - and so isn't something that the judge has previously ruled on.

Thanks, I knew that the Minister had special powers and was exercising them.  The reasoning seems rather off to me though....obviously though I don't know all of the options he had to choose from.

As an aside, I read earlier that according to ITF rulebook, if someone withdraws (and I imagine that this applies to only the top seeds?), before I think it was 11 a.m. Saturday, that the open could redo the draw.  Rublev (No. 5) would takeover Djokovic's spot and No. 17, Monfils, would move into Rublev's former spot.  If it's after that time, a lucky loser would take Novak's spot.  At this point, it looks very unlikely that they will be able to redo the draw--unless Novak acquiesces before then.  The hearing is live again.

PD

[Karl Henning]

Yes, it would have been much better than all this circus show.

+ 1

[Karl Henning]

Omicron linked to higher hospitalization rate for babies in UK — 9:38 a.m.
By Bloomberg

Omicron has resulted in a higher hospitalization rate for babies in the U.K. than seen for previous variants of COVID-19, though most hospital stays were short, researchers said.

Infants under the age of one accounted for 42 percent of children hospitalized during the Omicron wave, compared with thirty percent in May to mid-December when the Delta variant was prevalent, the research team said in data presented on Friday. Outcomes for the hospitalized babies have been positive, however, with no deaths, less need for oxygen and proportionally fewer intensive-care admissions than during the Delta wave.

[Karl Henning]

Worst COVID outbreak could be nearing its peak in Australia — 12:56 a.m.
By Bloomberg

Australia's most recent COVID-19 wave could peak within weeks, say government officials, potentially easing pressure on crowded hospitals and businesses struggling with supply issues.

The country is experiencing its worst outbreak since the start of the pandemic with more than 100,000 cases being posted daily, fueled by the now dominant omicron strain. The variant makes up about 90% of cases and two-thirds of ICU admissions in its most populous state, New South Wales.

Australia's Chief Health Officer Paul Kelly said he expected to see an easing in new cases as soon as late January or early February, adding that infections in NSW may have already topped out.

[Madiel]

Most of the Djokovic action will take until tomorrow, but one thing I noticed is that the Minister specifically referred to Djokovic's disregard for isolating - that whole business with the interview that he did after he knew he was positive (as well as possibly not isolating when waiting for a test result).

That doesn't surprise me. As soon as I saw Djokovic admitting that had happened, I knew it was trouble. I gather it was against the law in Serbia.

[Spotted Horses]

Most of the Djokovic action will take until tomorrow, but one thing I noticed is that the Minister specifically referred to Djokovic's disregard for isolating - that whole business with the interview that he did after he knew he was positive (as well as possibly not isolating when waiting for a test result).

That doesn't surprise me. As soon as I saw Djokovic admitting that had happened, I knew it was trouble. I gather it was against the law in Serbia.

It amazes me when I see people express sympathy for him. Entering a foreign country is a privilege and he thinks he should be able to do it without following the rules. All he would have had to do to avoid all of this trouble is to go to his pharmacy and get a vaccine that has literally been administered more than 10 billion times in the past year.

[T. D.]

It's not like any of this BS from Djokovid is a surprise.
Remember the disastrous 2020 Adria tournament he organized?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-coronavirus-positive-test-adria-tour-apology-a9581086.html

[Madiel]

It amazes me when I see people express sympathy for him. Entering a foreign country is a privilege and he thinks he should be able to do it without following the rules. All he would have had to do to avoid all of this trouble is to go to his pharmacy and get a vaccine that has literally been administered more than 10 billion times in the past year.

Yes. At least Tennys Sandgren stayed home. Choices and consequences.

[Madiel]

Djokovic's lawyers have apparently updated their arguments to include that it wasn't open to the Minister to conclude that Djokovic had a "well-known stance on vaccination".

Presumably this has something to do with Djokovic, until now, constantly being coy about his vaccination status. But it seems a truly ridiculous argument. There are statements on the public record about him not wanting to get vaccinated. We all know for sure now that he isn't vaccinated, and it was kind of obvious anyway because any vaccinated person would just disclose that to the authorities, at least, and be done with it. If anything, trying to argue this will make their case seem weaker!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Most of the Djokovic action will take until tomorrow, but one thing I noticed is that the Minister specifically referred to Djokovic's disregard for isolating - that whole business with the interview that he did after he knew he was positive (as well as possibly not isolating when waiting for a test result).

That doesn't surprise me. As soon as I saw Djokovic admitting that had happened, I knew it was trouble. I gather it was against the law in Serbia.

Yes, last I heard, his hearing will be starting at 10:15 a.m. Sunday (Australian time) which would be about 6:15 p.m. EST here.  Have you heard anything about whether or not they will live stream it?  I would be rather surprised if they didn't (unless there is some legal rule at the Federal level?) as the Australian authorities have been quite transparent at their end....speaking of which, is their a audio/video recording or a transcript from his Saturday morning (8 a.m.) interview with the immigration authorities?

And, yes, I heard that the Serbian health authorities said that he would have been notified both by text and email within I think that it was something like 20 minutes after the test results had come in after his test...all automated.  I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have at least checked his phone/computer either later that evening/before going to bed/or at least first thing in the morning--before he went anywhere.  Any issues with server problems/email issues around that time....slim chance, but I know that I've had issues where I haven't been able to access my email for a day?  I haven't heard anything about that happening from  him in any event.

It's not like any of this BS from Djokovid is a surprise.
Remember the disastrous 2020 Adria tournament he organized?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-coronavirus-positive-test-adria-tour-apology-a9581086.html

Yes, I do remember it (and had mentioned it earlier).  I can't read much of your story/link...there's more here:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/27/tennis/novak-djokovic-adria-tour-backlash-spt-intl/index.html

Yes. At least Tennys Sandgren stayed home. Choices and consequences.

Yes, credit to Tennys.

A big question(s) on my mind:  What about the two panels of experts who approved his and the others exemptions?  How much information were they given?

I remember Madiel saying something about rules about Australians traveling within Australia and between the states.  Are the requirements so different for traveling to and entering the state of Victoria?  The federal rules are quite easy to look up.  https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/vaccinated-travellers  Another thought just occurred to me:  I remember reading that one of the things which they were not provided with was where the tennis player was from.  It seems like there should have been something on the application/required proof for a ME stating that this exemption was ONLY VALID for people who were Australians traveling within Australia (and whatever else was applicable) and (in bold print...underlined) something like "and may not be applicable to those needing to comply with federal visa requirements to enter Australia".

PD

EDIT:  Just ran across this on CNN:  It looks like the case will be held by a Full Court and will be held remotely.  Time is now set for 9:30 a.m. (Sunday) with 5:30 p.m. EST.  Don't know whether or not we will be able to view it or not.

From CNN:  Djokovic case to be heard in front of full bench in Federal Court
From CNN's Hannah Ritchie in Melbourne
World men's tennis No.1 Novak Djokovic's visa cancellation case will be heard by a Full Court in the Federal Court of Australia.

A full court refers to cases where three or more judges sit together in the Federal Court to hear an appeal.

"This matter will be heard by a Full Court of the Federal Court of Australia comprised of Chief Justice James Allsop, Justice Anthony Besanko and Justice David O'Callaghan," the court said Saturday.

The remote hearing is scheduled to take place at 9.30 a.m. Melbourne time Sunday (5.30 p.m. ET Saturday).

Both sides in the case will file their online submissions to the court by 10 p.m. Saturday (6 a.m. ET).

This post has been updated to correct the time in the US that both sides will file their online submissions to the court. They will do so at 6 a.m. ET."

If I'm recalling correctly the lawyers for Australia, did not want a full bench?

And also from CNN:  It looks like Novak is back at the Park Hotel.  I would have thought that they would have allowed him to stay somewhere (like a private home which I believe that he was staying at earlier--don't know whether or not it had a tennis court as he was practicing I believe on the AO courts?) where he and his team could work on his training/fitness.  It's not like he's a flight risk.

"Djokovic returned to Park Hotel detention facility as protesters gather to demand his release
From CNN's David Tunnicliffe and Hannah Ritchie in Melbourne, Australia
Protesters demonstrate outside Melbourne Park after Novak Djokovic returned to an immigration detention hotel in Melbourne on Saturday.
Protesters demonstrate outside Melbourne Park after Novak Djokovic returned to an immigration detention hotel in Melbourne on Saturday. (Mark Baker/AP)
Novak Djokovic has returned to the Park Hotel detention facility in Melbourne, according to CNN affiliate Nine News.

The men's world No. 1 was seen in a white van arriving at the hotel, which is also being used as a detention facility for refugees, after he departed his lawyers' office on Saturday afternoon.

On Saturday morning, Djokovic was detained by Australian border authorities, per a court-ordered arrangement decided Friday, after his visa was revoked for the second time by Australia's immigration minister, Alex Hawke.

He was once again placed in pre-immigration detention, as required under Australian law.

A range of protesters have gathered outside the Park Hotel. Some supporting Djokovic and calling for his release, others speaking out against Australia's detention system.

During his first round of detention in the hotel, Djokovic had requested to be moved to a "more suitable place of detention that would enable him to train," according to court documents published January 8.

Djokovic's appeal hearing for the second cancellation of his visa is expected to take place on Sunday morning at 9:30 am Australia time, CNN affiliate Nine News reported, citing one of the tennis star's lawyers, Paul Holdenson."

PD

[Madiel]

A big question(s) on my mind:  What about the two panels of experts who approved his and the others exemptions?  How much information were they given?

We know the Tennis Australia panel and the Victorian government panel were not given identifying information about players etc. seeking exemptions. That probably means not knowing what country they were from... except surely it was pretty well all on the basis that we were talking about international people, not Australians.

Are the requirements so different for traveling to and entering the state of Victoria?

At times, particularly when covid was present in some states and not others, the rules in each state have been very different. They are still very different for entering Western Australia, where the cases per day are still in the single digits.

There have been all sorts of dramas about this issue over the course of the pandemic. For example, I live in the Australian Capital Territory which is completely surrounded by New South Wales. There was a situation where NSW abruptly changed the rules, and a whole group of ACT residents couldn't drive from Victoria into NSW despite having completed all the necessary paperwork that was valid only hours before.  The ACT government actually had to negotiate, over a couple of days while these people lived out of their cars at the border, an arrangement where they could transit across NSW so long as they didn't stop before arriving in the ACT.

Just before Christmas there was a big fight because Queensland required a negative PCR test result for entry, even after covid had already taken hold there, and several other states said that a huge proportion of the big testing queues was due to people who didn't have any other reason to get tested besides wanting to go to Queensland for summer holidays.

I think even now different states have different rules about whether you have to quarantine, how long for, whether you can do it at a private home, and whether you'll have to pay for doing it at a hotel.  As my immediate family is all nearby I have just resolved to completely forget about travelling until it stops being so messy. I've crossed the ACT/NSW border once in the last 2 years.

If I'm recalling correctly the lawyers for Australia, did not want a full bench?

Yes I think you're correct. Going straight to a full bench is fairly unusual. But I think the court, quite reasonably, took the view that it would be stupid to have a single judge decision that might be immediately appealed to a full bench. Given the timeframes, it would be dumb to not resolve this at the first opportunity.

And also from CNN:  It looks like Novak is back at the Park Hotel.  I would have thought that they would have allowed him to stay somewhere (like a private home which I believe that he was staying at earlier--don't know whether or not it had a tennis court as he was practicing I believe on the AO courts?) where he and his team could work on his training/fitness.  It's not like he's a flight risk.

Yeah, I'm really not sure how this whole detention arrangement came about. What the point was of giving him Friday night but then saying he had to be detained Saturday. I do think detention is generally required under the law, but then I don't get why he could stay free on Friday night.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

We know the Tennis Australia panel and the Victorian government panel were not given identifying information about players etc. seeking exemptions. That probably means not knowing what country they were from... except surely it was pretty well all on the basis that we were talking about international people, not Australians.

At times, particularly when covid was present in some states and not others, the rules in each state have been very different. They are still very different for entering Western Australia, where the cases per day are still in the single digits.

There have been all sorts of dramas about this issue over the course of the pandemic. For example, I live in the Australian Capital Territory which is completely surrounded by New South Wales. There was a situation where NSW abruptly changed the rules, and a whole group of ACT residents couldn't drive from Victoria into NSW despite having completed all the necessary paperwork that was valid only hours before.  The ACT government actually had to negotiate, over a couple of days while these people lived out of their cars at the border, an arrangement where they could transit across NSW so long as they didn't stop before arriving in the ACT.

Just before Christmas there was a big fight because Queensland required a negative PCR test result for entry, even after covid had already taken hold there, and several other states said that a huge proportion of the big testing queues was due to people who didn't have any other reason to get tested besides wanting to go to Queensland for summer holidays.

I think even now different states have different rules about whether you have to quarantine, how long for, whether you can do it at a private home, and whether you'll have to pay for doing it at a hotel.  As my immediate family is all nearby I have just resolved to completely forget about travelling until it stops being so messy. I've crossed the ACT/NSW border once in the last 2 years.

Yes I think you're correct. Going straight to a full bench is fairly unusual. But I think the court, quite reasonably, took the view that it would be stupid to have a single judge decision that might be immediately appealed to a full bench. Given the timeframes, it would be dumb to not resolve this at the first opportunity.

Yeah, I'm really not sure how this whole detention arrangement came about. What the point was of giving him Friday night but then saying he had to be detained Saturday. I do think detention is generally required under the law, but then I don't get why he could stay free on Friday night.

Thank you for sharing your own stories and for the further information.

I haven't heard of any Aussie players not wanting to get vaccinated, but if not, wouldn't they also have needed one of those MEs to play?  Just tossing it out there as a theoretical.  I know that Tsitsipas (from Greece) was reluctant for quite some time to get vaccinated; at one point, the Greek government was pleading with him to basically tone down his comments afraid that his popularity would discourage other Greeks from getting vaccinated.  But he did it.

In any event, I stumbled across this article which I thought it would be fair to share to provide some balance to the arguments that Novak is an "anti-vaxer".  The gentleman writing it was the head honcho at the Australian Open for a number of years.  His name:  Paul McNamee.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/tennis/djokovic-an-easy-target-in-anti-vaxxer-witch-hunt-20220115-p59ogt.html

Quite interesting that he set up and paid for free vaccine clinics and donations to hospitals, etc.  I would think that his lawyers would bring those things up in their arguments?

Any recent reports of any protests by Serbians and other fans of Novak's...either in Australia or in Serbia?

PD

[Madiel]

No idea to be honest what would've happened with any Australian player. Depends what the rules are right now.

But yeah, they wouldn't have a visa issue. 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

No idea to be honest what would've happened with any Australian player. Depends what the rules are right now.

But yeah, they wouldn't have a visa issue. 

Very true! 

Have you heard anything about them live-streaming the hearing?  It's supposed to start in 10 minutes.

Looking again at The Age website, it looks like Serbia is looking at possible consequence scenarios if he's deported.

PD

EDIT:  Looks like they will be streaming it here....though, so far anyway (even though it says that it started streaming live about 10 minutes ago), there's nothing there.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRxyGJGi6OE

[Pohjolas Daughter]

It's on now.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

It amazes me when I see people express sympathy for him. Entering a foreign country is a privilege and he thinks he should be able to do it without following the rules. All he would have had to do to avoid all of this trouble is to go to his pharmacy and get a vaccine that has literally been administered more than 10 billion times in the past year.

As Madiel said, he shouldn't have gotten a visa in the first place.

Often some athletes and celebrities do weird things partly due to a sense of invincibility/privilege combined with a lack of education and a lack of ability to understand the circumstances. I think the guy is technically a high school graduate, but he didn't attend the school much.

[Madiel]

Djokovic's application has been dismissed. The Minister's decision to cancel his visa stands.

In theory he could try to appeal to the High Court. In practice I think the High Court would not give leave to appeal because there's no general principle involved, it's just an individual case.

[The new erato]

It amazes me when I see people express sympathy for him. Entering a foreign country is a privilege and he thinks he should be able to do it without following the rules. All he would have had to do to avoid all of this trouble is to go to his pharmacy and get a vaccine that has literally been administered more than 10 billion times in the past year.

+1.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I watched some of the hearing last night (was up too early and I ended up dozing off partway through as much as I wanted to see it 'til the end).

There's so much that needs explaining from this whole mess...at least from what I've learned/heard so far reading and watching videos and events unfold.  In the end, though, he's out of the open and out of Australia.

And, yes, it's a privilege--not a right--to be able to enter another country.

And Salvatore Caruso is one "lucky loser"!  Google "lucky loser" and tennis events if you don't know what that means.

And the Australian Open will go on; one player is not bigger than the whole sport nor the events (as Rafa said in so many words).  Will be interesting to see whether Craig Tiley is still in charge of it next year and what kind of shakeup comes out of this re Tennis Australia, etc. too.

PD

[Florestan]

And the Australian Open will go on; one player is not bigger than the whole sport nor the events (as Rafa said in so many words). 

Why, of course he said that, after all he has much more chances of winning now that Djokovic is out. I think his comments were totally unsportsmanship )is that a word?)

Although not the first instance of politics impacting on sport, the whole mess was a pathetic circus show. I think this year tournament's reputation has been greatly damaged.