Everyone fires Valery Gergiev

[Mirror Image]

I'm not going to throw out my Gergiev recordings as I'm someone who can separate an artist from their personal beliefs/thoughts. Of course, I think Gergiev is one of the most overrated conductors alive. I like his earlier work in his Kirov days like the recording of Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky and Scythian Suite. I also think highly of his Tchaikovsky ballet recordings. His Shostakovich has never done much for me and his Stravinsky is decent, but overall, I could live without any of his recordings as I don't view them as essential or, at least, essential to my own collection.

[amw]

The only exceptionally good recording I remember hearing from Gergiev is a recording of Szymanowski's Third and Fourth Symphonies with Denis Matsuev. Perhaps an amusing irony that two artists sponsored by one of the world's most homophobic regimes did some of their best work with the music of an openly gay composer.

Artists, in general, are dependent on the ruling classes for patronage, and this often means compromising any personal principles or beliefs, since no one who can afford to pay for the arts has clean hands. As an artist, one can therefore choose (1) to take a completely mercenary attitude, accepting funding from anyone (even if this person may be e.g. the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia) and then immediately jumping ship to another sponsor as soon as something happens (e.g. he is accused of war crimes in Yemen), while being aware that this gives you a reputation for unreliability; (2) take an attitude of loyalty to your chosen sponsor, and gamble that whenever they do something reprehensible, most people will forget about it within a year or two and you'll be back to normal, while being aware that you'll alienate some people permanently; or (3) have principles, and therefore have no artistic career whatsoever, except perhaps as an underground figure who may eventually be rediscovered posthumously by enthusiasts.

[Florestan]

Consider a hypothetical. If any prominent American musicians had supported W. Bush's illegal and unjust invasion of Iraq (a war which has a lot of parallels with the present one), would any ensembles that employed them have an obligation to fire them?

Somebody mentioned Shostakovich upthread. Many people here enjoy the work of Soviet-era musicians. Many of these musicians were required to sign denunciations, affirmations, and so on, by the Soviet government. Most of them did so, because they understood that the consequences of not signing might be dire. Shostakovich was one of them. Are you really going to throw out your DSCH recordings because of this?

While you engage in hypotheticals and false equivalencies, the Russian army shells Ukrainian cities, kills and maims civilians, causes a huge wave of refugees and the scelerate Russian dictator Putin and his no less scelerate minion Lavrov threaten the whole word with nuclear war.

[Florestan]

Conductor Vasily Petrenko decided not to perform in his home country (Russia) « until peace has been restored »: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-60589271. Way to go !

Yes, way to go!

I am reminded of what Fritz Busch answered when Goebbels sent him a letter inviting him to return to Germany: I will gladly return the day Hitler and his minions, you included, will be hanged.

As for Netrebko complaining about being forced to denounce "her homeland", she proves she cannot or will not make the difference between a nation and its temporary government.  The scelerate Putin is no more representative of Russian homeland than the scelerate Hitler was of German fatherland. And corroborating this with the fact that hundreds of Russians (including children) are arrested daily for protesting against the regime of the scelerate Putin her stance is all the more disgusting.

[Florestan]

Elderly woman arrested in Russian anti-war protest

'What sort of government is scared of a little old lady holding placards?'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-elderly-woman-anti-war-protest-b2027436.html

Scroll down for the video.

I guess she was forced to denounce her homeland. Shame on you, Anna Netrebko, shame on you!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

While you engage in hypotheticals and false equivalencies, the Russian army shells Ukrainian cities, kills and maims civilians, causes a huge wave of refugees and the scelerate Russian dictator Putin and his no less scelerate minion Lavrov threaten the whole word with nuclear war.

I don't need you to tell me what's going on in Ukraine. I know because I have contacts living there, people I've known for ages. I hear directly from them, including a guy now sleeping in the Kiev Metro because it's not safe to be above ground. War hysteria is bad for everyone. Please cool it with the moral grandstanding.

[Florestan]

War hysteria is bad for everyone.

Tell that to the scelerate Putin and his no less scelerate minions.

[Mirror Image]

Unfortunately world events are making an effect on the classical scene.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/01/russian-conductor-gergiev-fired-munich-putin/

Gergiev has been removed from his upcoming Munich, Rotterdam, Verbier, and La Scala work as well as a Vienna Philharmonic tour of the USA. Verbier asked for his resignation and received it; Munich fired him outright after asking him to denounce the current war. He refused to reply.

The NY Metropolitan Opera has said they won't maintain relations with any pro-Russian state artists; that may possibly include future Bolshoi Ballet collaborations and Anna Netrebko, although for now it's intentionally vague. Bolshoi performances in London have been cancelled.

I can only assume Valentina Lisitsa is blacklisted everywhere already. Denis Matsuev was meant to tour with Gergiev and his Carnegie Hall appearances have been dropped.

Anna Netrebko is out of the MET:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/arts/music/anna-netrebko-met-opera-ukraine.html

I found this particular blurb interesting:

"It is a great artistic loss for the Met and for opera," Peter Gelb, the company's general manager, said in a statement. "Anna is one of the greatest singers in Met history, but with Putin killing innocent victims in Ukraine there was no way forward."

I think they made a wise decision as I can't stand Netrebko and find her, like Gergiev, extremely overrated. I don't understand all the compliments these artists are getting as if they're somehow irreplaceable.

[LKB]

Much of it is, l suspect, marketing.

We're apparently starting to more-or-less emerge from the pandemic, and for two years  the arts in general have suffered around the world. So now, everyone is going to be fighting to get audiences back in their venues. If you can get a leading singer, marketing him/her as a living legend might get you a few seats which would otherwise be sold next door.

[MusicTurner]

A lot of cultural events in Russia are being cancelled too; even on a purely practical level (flights, payments etc.), things are getting much more difficult to organize. Here are some:

- some classical concerts in Moscow, including with Gerstein, Ades, Bronfman, Eschenbach, Herreweghe, Pavel Kogan, etc.: https://meloman.ru/changes/

- rock concerts: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/artists-canceled-russia-concerts-list-1235037371/

It's worth mentioning though, that the boycotts are mainly Western initiatives; as regards the rest of the world, the situation is much less strict, and for example, some limited imports of some Western goods etc. are likely to continue via some of the neighbouring countries.

At least before the Duma laws today that gives imprisonment of up to 15 years for critical voices about the war or supporting sanctions, about 10,000 Russian artists and performers had signed at protest against the war. They include Petrenko and Bychkov. You don't reach 10,000 that quickly without a lot of uproar in society about the war.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083496491/russian-performers-speak-out-putin-ukraine

[staxomega]

Wasn't it Gergiev where rumors were he let his assistant do all the conducting and practicing at rehearsals, and he only showed up for the concerts and recordings?

[Spotted Horses]

Wasn't it Gergiev where rumors were he let his assistant do all the conducting and practicing at rehearsals, and he only showed up for the concerts and recordings?

I've heard the same story from an industry person. I'm not sure I believe it at face value. That's what assistant conductors are for, although perhaps he abuses the practice.

[staxomega]

I've heard the same story from an industry person. I'm not sure I believe it at face value. That's what assistant conductors are for, although perhaps he abuses the practice.

No doubt, also invaluable as centuries long practice of mentorships with getting experience. That's what I meant about Gergiev near exclusively or exclusively doing this, he has also always struck me as the "celebrity" type; not that there is anything wrong with that if you're a great musician, but Gergiev...

[amw]

Wasn't it Gergiev where rumors were he let his assistant do all the conducting and practicing at rehearsals, and he only showed up for the concerts and recordings?

That's practically all music directors nowadays, to be honest. It would probably be more exceptional for a music director or a soloist to actually show up to rehearsals prior to the dress rehearsal—assistant conductors handle most of that.

(This is at least true for A/AA/AAA orchestras, in American parlance.)

[bhodges]

And the Lucerne Festival joins the chorus:

Performances by the Lucerne Festival Orchestra and the Budapest Festival Orchestra will take the place of the two concerts by the Mariinsky Orchestra and Valery Gergiev on 21 and 22 August, respectively.

Lucerne Festival has cancelled the appearance by Denis Matsuev.

Lucerne, 5 March 2022. As a result of Lucerne Festival's cancellation of the two concerts by the Mariinsky Orchestra and Valery Gergiev, the Lucerne Festival Orchestra and the Budapest Festival Orchestra with Iván Fischer will each perform an additional concert at the Summer Festival. Details of the Lucerne Festival Orchestra's additional program on 21 August will be announced at a later date. On 22 August, the Budapest Festival Orchestra will appear in an all-Beethoven program with the soloist Daniil Trifonov, who had been originally scheduled for that evening. They will perform the Coriolan Overture, the Fourth Piano Concerto, and the Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major (Eroica).

There will additionally be a change of artist for the Lucerne Festival Orchestra's concert with Riccardo Chailly on 13 August. The Russian pianist Denis Matsuev will not perform. During recent years, he has actively supported the politics of Vladimir Putin. "We condemn the attack on Ukraine in the strongest possible terms," explains Executive and Artistic Director Michael Haefliger. "Denis Matsuev has not distanced himself from Vladimir Putin and the Russian government with respect to the current situation. In view of the political position he has taken in the past, this would have been absolutely mandatory." Haefliger adds: "It is important to emphasize that Russian artists will continue to perform at Lucerne Festival provided they do not support the current Russian regime. We do not prejudge anyone." The soloist who will appear in his place  will be announced at a later date

--Bruce

[Artem]

Strange that people just now waking up on Gergiev. A person who conducted in Syria and supported the "traditional family values". 

[Artem]

it was about the union of a man and a woman.

[Brian]

Is it really a good idea for ensembles to sack someone because he failed to express an opinion that was demanded of him? This strikes me as contrary to the principles we are supposed to uphold, here in the so-called free world.

Consider a hypothetical. If any prominent American musicians had supported W. Bush's illegal and unjust invasion of Iraq (a war which has a lot of parallels with the present one), would any ensembles that employed them have an obligation to fire them?

People have responded to you here as if you are an evil Putin fan, with accusations and colorful language, but obviously your question is more philosophical. And it deserves to be answered respectfully.

A more philosophical answer would probably encompass a number of points:
(a) the changing world of media, especially the internet/social media, and its effect on the role of celebrities in society today compared to past decades;
(b) the perception that this is a moral issue with only one "correct" position (i.e. the absence of reasonable disagreement);
(c) the implicit consent which a person gives, when becoming a public figure, to certain responsibilities/obligations expected of a public figure;
(d) the fact that these Russian artists have gained professionally from their association with Putin.

There are certainly some past examples we could discuss. One of them is W. Bush's illegal and unjust invasion of Iraq, because as you remember, the Dixie Chicks band spoke out against that war and had their careers nearly obliterated - they went from a headliner act to box-office poison. This complicates point (b) above, because it is a reminder that "correct" moral positions often aren't. In the United States support for the Iraq war never reached consensus, and often was a sharply divided issue, but shortly after the invasion actually began, polls found that more than 70% of Americans supported it.

Now, I don't think that's a great example, because it is so unlikely that we today will ever decide that actually, Putin was right, or that we will ever believe a million Ukrainians do deserve to be refugees.

I have a little bit of experience with (c) as someone who has recently become a local news media figure in my city. Mostly, I just have to be careful never to say anything really stupid. But the appearance of some public leadership absolutely requires that I speak out occasionally on matters of importance. The question is, where's the line? What's enough? There are a whole lot of injustices in the world and nobody can possibly issue statements on all of them. There also aren't really any rules or Miss Manners etiquette books on how to be famous.

Personally, I try to restrict my "public speaker obligations" to issues in my field (food) and my region (Texas) and don't bother with the rest. In the case of Gergiev, Matsuev, and Netrebko, the war does not have a direct effect on music, but it does have relevance because they all sought out personal friendships with the guy who started the war. Netrebko even once said in an interview that she wished she could have had a romance with the young Putin. They have also gained professionally from their association with Putin. So Putin's actions are directly relevant to their careers.

So let's revisit your hypothetical. What if a prominent American musician supported W. Bush's war in Iraq, and also was best friends with W. Bush, and also received awards and monetary benefits from their association with W. Bush, and also had a majority of their working gigs outside the United States?

[Florestan]

What if a prominent American musician supported W. Bush's war in Iraq, and also was best friends with W. Bush, and also received awards and monetary benefits from their association with W. Bush, and also had a majority of their working gigs outside the United States?

Name one such American musician, please.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

So let's revisit your hypothetical. What if a prominent American musician supported W. Bush's war in Iraq, and also was best friends with W. Bush, and also received awards and monetary benefits from their association with W. Bush, and also had a majority of their working gigs outside the United States?

You've raised a lot of interesting questions; I'll just deal with this one for now.

On a personal level, it would depend on how much I liked his music. I'm well aware that artists can be human train wrecks, misguided, delusional etc., just like anyone else. Look, I have friends and relatives with whom I often disagree severely on certain matters (such as W's war on Iraq). I'm not going to cut them off because of that.

On a professional level, your third point (awards and monetary benefits) complicates things. Somebody upthread brought up the subject of "dirty money." If there was legally actionable stuff going on, that might be an issue.

Back to the personal level, I've gotta go now because I'm joining a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian friends and colleagues for dinner at somebody's house, after which we're going to watch the Criterion Collection DVD of La Dolce Vita. Just another day in America's most Slavic metro area.