Coronavirus thread

[Florestan]

I don't think there was anything in the article to suggest otherwise, Andrei!

It wasn't, I agree --- just please bear with me, I am under heavy stress these days and therefore I might say things which are stupider and/or more exaggerated than I usually say.

[Florestan]

I'm not playing Todd. You asked: "Should Poland and Romania have asked each and every Ukrainian refugee to produce either vaccination proof or a negative PCR test in order to let them cross the border?".

My answer to your thoroughly rhetorical question is no.

Ah, I see now and thanks for clarifying! I utterly misunderstood your post, I apologize. In my defense, see my post above --- which I quote just in case:

It wasn't, I agree --- just please bear with me, I am under heavy stress these days and therefore I might say things which are stupider and/or more exaggerated than I usually say.

[Karl Henning]

It wasn't, I agree --- just please bear with me, I am under heavy stress these days and therefore I might say things which are stupider and/or more exaggerated than I usually say.

Understood. Peace!

[Florestan]

Peace!

Always and forever!

[Madiel]

Ah, I see now and thanks for clarifying! I utterly misunderstood your post, I apologize. In my defense, see my post above --- which I quote just in case:

I understand. To be honest your stress is kind of obvious.

[Que]

I know we're all ready to be done with this, but:

A covid surge in Western Europe has U.S. bracing for another wave

By Lenny Bernstein and Joel Achenbach
Today at 9:21 a.m. EDT| Updated today at 11:46 a.m. EDT

I understand the surge is because of an even more contagious (but not more dangerous) subvariant of Omicron which is able to thrive now (most) restrictions have been lifted.

Consequences are relatively limited because of high vaccination rates.
This might be different for some areas/states in the US and other countries.

[Karl Henning]

I understand the surge is because of an even more contagious (but not more dangerous) subvariant of Omicron which is able to thrive now (most) restrictions have been lifted.

Consequences are relatively limited because of high vaccination rates.
This might be different for some areas/states in the US and other countries.

Yes, the vaccine-averse MAGA states will once again suffer most.

[prémont]

I understand the surge is because of an even more contagious (but not more dangerous) subvariant of Omicron which is able to thrive now (most) restrictions have been lifted.

This is the variant omikron B.A. 2 (the original omikron was B.A. 1), which we have had in Denmark for some time now. It's more contagious than omikron B.A. 1, but there is a large amount of cross-immunity between these two variants, so you are well protected against serious disease from B.A. 2 if you already have passed an infection with B.A. 1.

[Holden]

Yes, the vaccine-averse MAGA states will once again suffer most.

Can I rephrase this quote?

Yes, the vaccine-averse MAGA states will once again suffer most.

Their decision and and if they do suffer most then they only have themselves to blame.

[Madiel]

You can rephrase, but this won't be the first time that I point out that vaccination works at a population level not just on individuals.

And in fact this is won't be the first time I point it out to you, Holden, personally. Whether or not the people around you are vaccinated MATTERS. And it matters when you are personally vaccinated, and it matters when you are personally unvaccinated.

[Holden]

You can rephrase, but this won't be the first time that I point out that vaccination works at a population level not just on individuals.

And in fact this is won't be the first time I point it out to you, Holden, personally. Whether or not the people around you are vaccinated MATTERS. And it matters when you are personally vaccinated, and it matters when you are personally unvaccinated.

What I'm trying to point out is that those averse to taking the vaccine, regardless of where they are in the world, and regardless of their political (geopolitcal?) views, will be the ones that will most likely suffer and there appears to be sufficient evidence for this. I'm vaxxed and boostered and am simply confounded by those who believe that not being vaxxed is the way to go for whatever reason they come up with. I'm protected from idiots like these!

[Madiel]

People who will suffer include those who are vulnerable due to medical conditions or who are medically unable to get vaccinated.

And the risk to such people is heightened when they are surrounded by larger pools of unvaccinated people.

[Karl Henning]

People who will suffer include those who are vulnerable due to medical conditions or who are medically unable to get vaccinated.

And the risk to such people is heightened when they are surrounded by larger pools of unvaccinated people.

QFT

[Holden]

People who will suffer include those who are vulnerable due to medical conditions or who are medically unable to get vaccinated.

And the risk to such people is heightened when they are surrounded by larger pools of unvaccinated people.

You are correct, but surely those who are immuno-compromised should also looking at taking some responsibility for themselves. Our mask mandates have gone here in Queensland but I still see people wearing masks in indoor public venues. Rather than think they are overreacting, I am assuming that they do have concerns because of health issues and this is their approach to protecting themselves. I also assume that they have been fully vaxxed.

[Madiel]

I literally pointed out to you that some people cannot get vaccinated, and your response is to come back with an assumption that people are fully vaccinated.

[Holden]

I literally pointed out to you that some people cannot get vaccinated, and your response is to come back with an assumption that people are fully vaccinated.

Yes, most are but not all. From the Australian Health Dept Website

The only people who cannot ever be immunised are people who have had severe allergic reactions (anaphylaxis) to vaccines ingredients which is rare.

people who are significantly immunocompromised , for example people undergoing a treatment that suppresses the immune system, such as chemotherapy

In the first instance, the new Novovax vaccine is meant to take care of this for most people with allergic reactions to the vaccine. In the second instance, it's not just Covid that is an issue - any illness that compromises the immune system is an issue.

[Madiel]

I know it's rare. The point is, you keep treating vaccination as if it's purely a matter of personal choice, and it's not in 2 respects. First, some people cannot make that choice. But the main point is that a person's decision to take measures or NOT take measures affects those around them.

I find it kind of fascinating how you treat Covid infections as if they emerge from the aether instead of always being a process involving 2 people.

[amw]

Wearing a mask also does not provide you with protection against covid-19; it provides people around you with protection from covid-19 (if and only if you are wearing it correctly). If you are wearing a mask and others aren't, they can transmit the virus to you relatively easily, since it is an airborne virus, generally is shed through the infected person's mouth or nose, and produces aerosols that can then cling to the bodies, clothes, etc, of everyone in their vicinity and potentially enter their bodies through other orifices (eyes, ears, etc), even if those people are wearing masks. Therefore it does not make sense to say that only the immunocompromised should wear masks. It's the equivalent of saying to the president of Ukraine something like "if you don't want to be invaded by Russia, you should disarm your military"; like mask-wearing, disarmament requires multilaterality to succeed.

It's very strange that we still have to explain this to people in this level of detail, every single time, after two years.

(And while vaccination theoretically protects you more than wearing a mask does, people who haven't been vaccinated are more likely to carry a higher viral load, meaning that they are still more likely to infect even a fully vaccinated person, because they are shedding a greater amount of virus and may—although more data is needed—be more vulnerable to variants that present with significant immune escape capabilities. Same principle.)

[Madiel]

Yes to all of that.

[drogulus]

     Moderna is advocating another jab for adults, a second booster. They're seeking FDA authorization.