Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[aukhawk]

... Also, in a very odd choice the wind is left "blowing" for about 20 seconds after the orchestra/singers stop.  That is not in the score at all.  Producer Andrew Keener in fact did the same thing on the Slatkin recording albeit with a wind machine but followed the score precisely (everything finishing together) for Handley and the RLPO which is surely the right way to do it.  Not heard the Manze which he also produced so no idea what he did then.

The percussionist goes for one last turn of the crank after the voices stop, in both cases very ppp.  Which I think is a very reasonable interpretation.  In any case I couldn't let the last few moments (of any musical performance) affect my enjoyment of the rest.  Time only flows one way.

Manze is my favourite recording (so far, not heard Brabbins yet) of my favourite RVW symphony - although the general sound balance is rather unusual, simultaneously rather recessed and yet highly detailed.  My ideal would be Thomson but that recording gets the organ balance hopelessly wrong.

[aukhawk]

Perhaps I'm like a spoilt child in a sweet shop - so much choice that now only something brightly coloured and shiny will do! (probably a toy shop....).  The thing is we have had so many genuinely fine RVW cycles and individual symphonies that it becomes hard to find something different/challenging but convincing.  Which is why I said about a continental or US orchestra doing a full cycle.

Well just a reminder that Rozhdestvensky has recorded a complete cycle with one of those Soviet** orchestras with very long names (**just - rec 1989). 
US orchestras - the NYPO has already been mentioned, the 4th with Mitropoulos and 6th with Stokowski (a fine British conductor  ) and they also recorded a searing 4th with Bernstein.  The Atlanta SO (cond. Spano) has recorded the Sea Symphony, the 4th and 5th at least, and other important pieces, not sure about any other symphonies.  The Oregon (cond. Kalmar) have recorded the 4th and a very fine (my favourite) 5th.  The US orchestras seem to go for the 4th.  Its a shame Slatkin didn't record his cycle with a US orchestra.
A recording I've not yet heard is Colin Davis conducting the Bayern RSO in the 6th.

[Roasted Swan]

Well just a reminder that Rozhdestvensky has recorded a complete cycle with one of those Soviet** orchestras with very long names (**just - rec 1989). 
US orchestras - the NYPO has already been mentioned, the 4th with Mitropoulos and 6th with Stokowski (a fine British conductor  ) and they also recorded a searing 4th with Bernstein.  The Atlanta SO (cond. Spano) has recorded the Sea Symphony, the 4th and 5th at least, and other important pieces, not sure about any other symphonies.  The Oregon (cond. Kalmar) have recorded the 4th and a very fine (my favourite) 5th.  The US orchestras seem to go for the 4th.  Its a shame Slatkin didn't record his cycle with a US orchestra.
A recording I've not yet heard is Colin Davis conducting the Bayern RSO in the 6th.

I have the Rohzdestvensky cycle - he was exactly the kind of conductor I would have loved to hear in a well-recorded cycle with a less - shall we say - "idiomatic" orchestra/choir/soloists.  I know all the other performances you mention too - Kalmar is good, Spano a little faceless.  One of my top Antarticas is Leppard in Indianapolis which is superbly played and recorded but a lot of people don't like the inclusion of EXTRA texts.  Abravanel's 6 in Utah is very fine except for a too loud finale, Christopher Seaman's "London" in Rochester is rather lovely too.  But I suppose I'm wishing for an unexpected orchestra/conductor complete cycle......  Why not Oramo in Stockholm on BIS.

BTW - the ending of Brabbins' Antartica is NOT a deal-breaker for me - I'm just bemused at the choice.  Apart from anything else it stops the blended effect of distanced ovies/wind machine that RVW so skillfully creates not just at the end of the work but elsewhere.  I did wonder if on the day of the session the wind machine broke down/sounded so rubbish they went to a post-production plan B!

I listened this morning to Brabbins' No.5 which is just lovely - perhaps the slightly reflective, measured style of that extraordinary work chimes more closely with Brabbins rather than the cinematic pictorialism of 7?

[Karl Henning]

It was a favourite of VW's. It was on an old Sony/CBS CD with Stokowski's recording of Symphony No.6 (which was actually the first recording of the work, beating Boult by a few days).

sInteresting, Jeffrey! I don't think I noted before your preference of Mitropoulos. Perhaps it caught my eye, as I was listening to it not long ago, as I've wrapped up my review of the box. I'm with you and @DavidW on Haitink's Sea Symphony, the recording which sealed the deal for me, as well. Not that I have any quarrel with either Previn or Thomson, whose Sea Symphonies I've listened to more recently.

[Roasted Swan]

I've been listening to the latest SOMM/RVW live set ;



It includes 2 Mitropoulos live performances including a Tallis from the 40's and the 2 piano concerto from the 50's.  I prefer this Tallis to his late 50's remake which is brilliantly played but just too impatient - what works in Symphony 4 fails in Tallis.  The Double Concerto is good but I'd stick with the same soloists in the studio on the recent Albion release;

[aukhawk]

BTW - the ending of Brabbins' Antartica is NOT a deal-breaker for me - I'm just bemused at the choice.  Apart from anything else it stops the blended effect of distanced ovies/wind machine that RVW so skillfully creates not just at the end of the work but elsewhere.  I did wonder if on the day of the session the wind machine broke down/sounded so rubbish they went to a post-production plan B!

I've listened to this new recording now - parts of it twice, 2nd time via headphones.  Well - I rather like the sound of the recorded wind BUT one is rather conscious of it being turned on and off like a tap, and it's difficult (for me) to avoid some discomfort at the un-HIP-ness of it all.  It also seems a tad high in the mix, likewise the soprano.  But a huge plus for me is the stereo recording of the wind - you would need 2 or even 3 spaced wind machines to get close to this spaceyness which sounds very right to me - which RVW did not specify of course.  So in all yes - a strange, and interesting, production choice.  If wanting to be 'different' I would have been interested to hear a synth used for the wind, or maybe a theramin (tuned to output pink noise rather than 'Good Vibrations' tone!).  A theramin has the same property as a wind machine - loudness and pitch are linked.
I don't for a moment believe that a good wind machine would have been hard to find - honestly, they must be ten a penny.

Elsewhere I felt the musiciams were not quite bringing their A game - one or two uncertainties in solo passages, more than one or two ragged ensemble entries - not at all what I am used to hearing from the BBC SO who are usually on par with the other top London orchestras.  I wondered if it was a lockdown recording but not really - March 2022 we were kinda coming out of it by then.  But they could have been still getting back up to speed I suppose.  Sound generally is pretty good, organ balance near-ideal.

Thankyou for reminding me of that Indianapolis/Leppard Antartica - that is a good one indeed.

[vandermolen]

Listening to Mitropolous's recording of the 4th symphony brought back a memory for me:
It's Thursday (I just checked this up) the 12th October 1972 (VW's 100th Birthday) and I'm in my last year at (High) school. It was quite a liberal school in many ways (we could wear our hair long). I had a musical appreciation lesson on that day and, in view of the importance of that date, I insisted that the music teacher played some Vaughan Williams (which he kindly agreed to) and from the school's library of LPs he fished out the 4th Symphony conducted by Boult on EMI/HMV (I prefer it to the earlier recording). That night I went to the 100th Anniversary in London to see Boult conduct the 8th Symphony and Job etc. It was a memorable day for my 17 year old self:

[Karl Henning]

It doesn't occur to me as often as it might, to do comparative listening. When I made my way through the Bernstein Symphony edition, I certainly remembered enjoying his recording of the Fourth Symphony. After recently listening to Mitropoulos' 1956 recording, (and thinking that Bernstein benefited to some degree from its having been in the orchestra's folder, so to speak) I wanted to revisit the Bernstein account. During the second movement I found myself thinking, it isn't my imagination that this feels broader? And it wasn't:

i. Allegro—Lento | Mitropoulos 7.49 | Bernstein 9.17
ii. Andante moderato | Mitropoulos 9.49 | Bernstein 10.24
iii. Scherzo. Allegro molto | Mitropoulos 5.39 | Bernstein 5.33
iv. Finale con epilogo fugato. Allegro molto—Con anima | Mitropoulos 8.01 | Bernstein 8.33

I don't say that there is any excessive breadth in the Bernstein, only that one is aware of it as a distinct reading. A little tickled, too, that he shaved a "hair bit" (as they say in Tennessee) off Mitropoulos' timing in the Scherzo.

[Skogwald]

This is now officially my favorite RVW disc! Somehow the ninth symphony has a mystery to it that draws me in more than the others. Thomson's recording is the most powerful out of the handful I've heard. Plus, it's paired with the Piano Concerto, which I consider an incredible, underrated piece.

[relm1]

This is now officially my favorite RVW disc! Somehow the ninth symphony has a mystery to it that draws me in more than the others. Thomson's recording is the most powerful out of the handful I've heard. Plus, it's paired with the Piano Concerto, which I consider an incredible, underrated piece.

I love this symphony and concerto.  Will have to revisit this recording since I preferred Previn's and recall this not knocking that one off its pedestal, but tastes change with time so worth revisiting. 

[relm1]

Any comments on this?

https://onyxclassics.com/release/vaughan-williams-job-a-masque-for-dancing/

[Wanderer]

This is now officially my favorite RVW disc! Somehow the ninth symphony has a mystery to it that draws me in more than the others. Thomson's recording is the most powerful out of the handful I've heard. Plus, it's paired with the Piano Concerto, which I consider an incredible, underrated piece.

Very glad you discovered this! This is my favourite version of Vaughan Williams' Ninth, a beloved work. In the piano concerto, also a favourite work, I like the Shelley version with RPO/Handley better; but this is still good. And the mesmerising Turner covers of the whole Chandos Vaughan Williams symphonic series adds just an extra degree of awesomeness to the whole project. Beauty Farm, in particular, should fire their cover designers and take note.

[foxandpeng]

Any comments on this?

https://onyxclassics.com/release/vaughan-williams-job-a-masque-for-dancing/

Probably not a very useful one, but I have very much enjoyed every Manze RVW that I've heard, possibly because I have gone to hear him conduct a LOT, being just up the road from where I live, during his RLPO tenure. I think I may have been present for this recording. I certainly heard Job under him and enjoyed.

[vers la flamme]

Any recommendations for a good biography or "life and works" monograph on RVW? I expect there must be at least a few out there. I am sorry if the question has already been posed and answered recently, this thread is too long for me to dig through.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Any recommendations for a good biography or "life and works" monograph on RVW? I expect there must be at least a few out there. I am sorry if the question has already been posed and answered recently, this thread is too long for me to dig through.

I've referred to this book a number of times.  It's by Michael Kennedy:



I ordered my copy directly from Oxford University Press here in the US.  It wasn't terribly expensive.

PD

p.s.  I'll let @vandermolen tell you more about who MK was. 

EDIT:  Just looked at their website; it's gone up quite a bit since I purchased.  I did find a copy on e-bay  in the 30's though.  Here's the link to OUP:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-works-of-ralph-vaughan-williams-9780198163305?cc=us&lang=en&;

[Roasted Swan]

I've referred to this book a number of times.  It's by Michael Kennedy:



I ordered my copy directly from Oxford University Press here in the US.  It wasn't terribly expensive.

PD

p.s.  I'll let Jeffrey tell you more about who MK was. 

EDIT:  Just looked at their website; it's gone up quite a bit since I purchased.  I did find a copy on e-bay  in the 30's though.  Here's the link to OUP:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-works-of-ralph-vaughan-williams-9780198163305?cc=us&lang=en&;

A fine biography and survey of the works.  Ursula VW's books are good too but must be read with the understanding that she is probably not completely objective!  The new Eric Saylor biog in the Master Musicians series has had good reviews - I wouldn't know - the copy I ordered never arrived.......!

[Christo]

This is now officially my favorite RVW disc! Somehow the ninth symphony has a mystery to it that draws me in more than the others. Thomson's recording is the most powerful out of the handful I've heard. Plus, it's paired with the Piano Concerto, which I consider an incredible, underrated piece.

Fully agree, one of my favourites, too!

[vers la flamme]

I have that disc too, and it is stunning. I also love Bryden Thomson's recording of the London, which was the one which finally made that symphony click for me.

@RS & @PD thank you for the recs! I also noticed this recent bio:

https://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-Composer-Radical-Biography/dp/071983001X

Has anyone read it? Apparently it's more biographical than musicological, but appears interesting nonetheless.

[Karl Henning]

I've referred to this book a number of times.  It's by Michael Kennedy:



I ordered my copy directly from Oxford University Press here in the US.  It wasn't terribly expensive.

PD

p.s.  I'll let Jeffrey tell you more about who MK was. 

EDIT:  Just looked at their website; it's gone up quite a bit since I purchased.  I did find a copy on e-bay  in the 30's though.  Here's the link to OUP:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-works-of-ralph-vaughan-williams-9780198163305?cc=us&lang=en&;

I read that (a little strange to relate) while in Petersburg, borrowed from the British Consulate library.

[vandermolen]

This is now officially my favorite RVW disc! Somehow the ninth symphony has a mystery to it that draws me in more than the others. Thomson's recording is the most powerful out of the handful I've heard. Plus, it's paired with the Piano Concerto, which I consider an incredible, underrated piece.

Totally agree!