Under-the-radar/neglected conductors

[Daverz]

Allow me to offer Leopold Ludwig as a candidate:

A friend turned me on to his Ein Heldenleben.

[Daverz]

Kurt Masur (when has anyone ever mentioned him for a reference recording?)

Here ya go:

[Irons]

Receives little attention but a cycle of Rachmaninov symphonies from Edo de Waart with Rotterdam Philharmonic. Lighter and fleeter of foot without bombast, I find his Rachmaninov refreshing.

[Holden]

No love for Rene Leibowitz?

[lordlance]

No love for Rene Leibowitz?

There's always more conductors. Not aware of what he has done outside his Beethoven cycle and Sibelius put-down essay.

[Roasted Swan]

No love for Rene Leibowitz?

You beat me to mentioning him!  Genuinely interesting conductor - his RPO Beethoven cycle 60 years on still sounds wonderfully alert and intelligent.

[Roasted Swan]

Receives little attention but a cycle of Rachmaninov symphonies from Edo de Waart with Rotterdam Philharmonic. Lighter and fleeter of foot without bombast, I find his Rachmaninov refreshing.

Walter Weller and his Rachmaninov cycle too (or his Prokofiev cycle on Decca or his Beethoven cycle on Chandos or his Suk Asrael Symphony......)

[pjme]

Manuel Rosenthal

Vraiment "très chic".

[pjme]

36. Ernest Bour

Very interesting musician. he left a rather small LP/CD legacy, but there must be a huge amount of radio recordings in both France and Germany.



From 1934 he was choirmaster at Radio Genève, as well as in Strasbourg, from 1935 to 1939. In 1940 he taught piano at the Strasbourg Conservatory, in 1941 he was also assistant conductor of the Mulhouse Orchestra. He is also active as a conductor at Radio France, as well as at the Aix-en-Provence and Strasbourg Festivals. In 1945 he was appointed director of the Strasbourg Conservatory.

From 1950 to 1963 he conducted the Strasbourg Philharmonic Orchestra (from 1955 also the Strasbourg Opera Orchestra), then from 1964 - following the death of Hans Rosbaud - the Suedwestfunk Symphony Orchestra in Baden -Baden (the current Radio Symphony Orchestra of Baden-Baden and Freiburg im Breisgau), a position he retained until 1979, before retiring. From 1976 to 1987 he was permanent guest conductor of the Dutch Radio Chamber Orchestra (VARA, Hilversum).

During all these years Ernest Bour conducted numerous premieres, such as that of Sub-Kontur by Wolfgang Rihm, 1975, Apparitions by György Ligeti in 1960, Lontano in 1967, Trans by Karlheinz Stockhausen, 1971, the 3rd symphony by Henryk Górecki, 1977, to name just a few.
https://youtu.be/F7BLMgmyBk0?si=RWEYGsvNb86ur7Xt

[pjme]

Ingo Metzmacher



https://youtu.be/kmKipXZq8OA?si=TF-T2E5fNGp_00br

I went to see him in Amsterdam for a performance of Hartmans 8th symphony and I do like his book "Wie is er bang van nieuwe klanken?" Who is afraid of new sounds? Afaik, not translated into English.

[DavidW]

Here ya go:

And the Mendelssohn string symphonies!

[Jo498]

Masur's recordings of Mendelssohn's Lobgesang and oratorios are also first rate, there's probably too much competition in the other Mendelssohn symphonies for his recordings to stick out (same with other standard 19th century repertoire, he recorded a lot, the Gewandhaus orchestra being a main asset of the GDR).

[Spotted Horses]

Here ya go:

Agreed (although the Haitink set is another contender).

[lordlance]

Masur's recordings of Mendelssohn's Lobgesang and oratorios are also first rate, there's probably too much competition in the other Mendelssohn symphonies for his recordings to stick out (same with other standard 19th century repertoire, he recorded a lot, the Gewandhaus orchestra being a main asset of the GDR).

That was my point with folks like Masur. They made tons and tons of recordings. sure, and some even held high posts (LGO and NYP are no small feat!) but somehow they never get brought up. His Liszt is unsurprising to be brought up. Not a lot of competition in the domain of complete tone poems and other orchestral works.

[Jo498]

But this is very different from "under the radar". Masur made lots of well distributed recordings, he was if anything "overrated", not under the radar.

Similarly with Beecham. He is a cult figure with a reasonable number of recordings (considering his generation). I tend to think of him as closer to overrated but in any case he is well known, not obscure.

Someone like Müller-Kray is an obscure provincial figure. I think I only encountered the name in context of some radio recordings with Wunderlich or Erdmann or whatever. Regardless of whether he'd deserved to be better known, he is someone obscure but Masur or Beecham are not and never were.

[Roasted Swan]

But this is very different from "under the radar". Masur made lots of well distributed recordings, he was if anything "overrated", not under the radar.

Similarly with Beecham. He is a cult figure with a reasonable number of recordings (considering his generation). I tend to think of him as closer to overrated but in any case he is well known, not obscure.

Someone like Müller-Kray is an obscure provincial figure. I think I only encountered the name in context of some radio recordings with Wunderlich or Erdmann or whatever. Regardless of whether he'd deserved to be better known, he is someone obscure but Masur or Beecham are not and never were.

to the bolded - I agree.  I suspect he was the acceptable face of East German Music for the regime and therefore got exposure outside the DDR through recordings and guest conducting concerts that by talent alone he possibly did not deserve.  So if anything the opposite of under the radar.

Beecham is harder to call.  Clearly at the height of his career he was a major personality on the British music scene.  His enduring recorded legacy is quite small - really the Delius recordings and the famous La Boheme plus a handful of other things.  But his stature now is more a simple case of the ebb and flow of music/recording history.  His legacy of forming both the RPO and the LPO will endure as long as both/either of those orchestras do let alone his association with Diaghilev and the UK premiering of Strauss operas.

[pjme]

Ok - so this is a rather tricky subject. When is a conductor neglected or under the radar? 

[DavidW]

That was my point with folks like Masur. They made tons and tons of recordings. sure, and some even held high posts (LGO and NYP are no small feat!) but somehow they never get brought up. His Liszt is unsurprising to be brought up. Not a lot of competition in the domain of complete tone poems and other orchestral works.

That is not true though.  Karl and another poster keep listening to Masur.  And Masur has done some big box issues, which would not be true if he was neglected. 

It does pay to follow the listening thread, you'll discover all sorts of great stuff!

[Jo498]

When his recordings are not well known/well distributed. That's neither true of Beecham nor Masur.

It's obvious for an obscure provincial guy like Müller-Kray who AFAIK never recorded for a major label, it's all radio productions often only published decades later because he accompanied someone 10-100 times as famous as he was.

It's at least plausible for quite few, most of whom died before the stereo age, e.g. Abendroth.

Of course, there will be many debatable cases. They were mostly either regionally well known but internationally not so much, or didn't make many recordings or were considered "solid" 2nd rank artist that made some contribution in niches.

[ritter]

Ok - so this is a rather tricky subject. When is a conductor neglected or under the radar?

Easy: when other people like him/her less than I do. 

BTW, Peter,  you mentioned three names that I very much admire. Manuel Rosenthal (his Ravel and Debussy are top-notch, and he was an indefatigable champion of obscurer French repertoire), Ernest Bour (a very versatile conductor, who excelled in 20th century music), and Ingo Metzmacher (I had the chance to see him live doing Dallapiccola's Il prigioniero, and it was excellent).