Coronavirus thread

[AnotherSpin]

Yes, influenza is more efficient at killing people than wars.

I've had COVID several times. At least once it was confirmed by a test, which I took when I was admitted to the hospital before surgery. The reason I'm not sure about the number of times, aside from the one confirmed by the test, is because it was almost unnoticeable for me, with no significant symptoms (probably because I wasn't following the news on TV and wasn't influenced by the fears and hysteria). My sense of taste changed slightly, nothing more. It was significantly harder to deal with regular flu than with COVID. By the way, I haven't had the flu in the last year or two.

[Madiel]

Anecdotes. Like data, only not remotely like data.

As I already hinted at, the "I wasn't very sick when I had covid, so covid isn't that bad" line is pretty much on the same level as "it's snowing today, so therefore the climate isn't warming".

That just isn't how pandemics work. In fact, diseases that are too deadly aren't very good at becoming pandemics. But a disease that infects 1 billion people and kills 1% of them** will result in 10 million deaths. While leaving an even larger number of people to go onto the internet saying "well I was fine".

Well sure. You being fine and millions of excess deaths are not mutually exclusive events. In other news, it's perfectly possible that you live longer than the statistically calculated life expectancy (which dipped in many countries during the pandemic for the first time in decades, in spite of all the people who think that the pandemic wasn't really a thing).

**This is not the actual mortality rate of covid. As far as I'm aware it was a bit higher, at least pre-vaccination.

[SimonNZ]

no significant symptoms (probably because I wasn't following the news on TV and wasn't influenced by the fears and hysteria).

Wow. I've read some unique perspectives over the last four years, but you're actually the first person I've encountered to suggest that covid sickness is psychosomatic.

[Madiel]

Wow. I've read some unique perspectives over the last four years, but you're actually the first person I've encountered to suggest that covid sickness is psychosomatic.

Some immune systems are so strong, they resist facts as well as viruses.

[AnotherSpin]

Wow. I've read some unique perspectives over the last four years, but you're actually the first person I've encountered to suggest that covid sickness is psychosomatic.

I am not making suggestions. I am merely referring to my personal experience, which is the only thing that matters to me, unlike biased information taken from the internet. I can add that none of my relatives, friends, or acquaintances have experienced severe conditions from COVID.

[SimonNZ]

I am not making suggestions. I am merely referring to my personal experience, which is the only thing that matters to me, unlike biased information taken from the internet. I can add that none of my relatives, friends, or acquaintances have experienced severe conditions from COVID.

Is your doctor one of your acquaintances? Next time you go in ask them what their experience of the pandemic has been. Get as many anecdotes as they'll give you.

And I'll wager you know plenty of people who were frightened at how sick they were. Perhaps they didn't want to share that with an unsympathetic denialist.

[AnotherSpin]

Is your doctor one of your acquaintances? Next time you go in ask them what their experience of the pandemic has been. Get as many anecdotes as they'll give you.

And I'll wager you know plenty of people who were frightened at how sick they were. Perhaps they didn't want to share that with an unsympathetic denialist.

I kindly ask for your understanding, but I'm not interested in wagering with those who fanatically believe everything on TV or social media. I don't need external validation of my personal experience. I'm not looking for a reason to get sick, and I wish the same for you - stay healthy!

[krummholz]

Anecdotes. Like data, only not remotely like data.

As I already hinted at, the "I wasn't very sick when I had covid, so covid isn't that bad" line is pretty much on the same level as "it's snowing today, so therefore the climate isn't warming".

That just isn't how pandemics work. In fact, diseases that are too deadly aren't very good at becoming pandemics. But a disease that infects 1 billion people and kills 1% of them** will result in 10 million deaths. While leaving an even larger number of people to go onto the internet saying "well I was fine".

Well sure. You being fine and millions of excess deaths are not mutually exclusive events. In other news, it's perfectly possible that you live longer than the statistically calculated life expectancy (which dipped in many countries during the pandemic for the first time in decades, in spite of all the people who think that the pandemic wasn't really a thing).

**This is not the actual mortality rate of covid. As far as I'm aware it was a bit higher, at least pre-vaccination.

Indeed. It is not uncommon for people to have a very mild or even asymptomatic case of COVID. It's the luck of the draw. Other than comorbidities, the reason some people get deathly ill from it and others barely notice it is still not understood. And one reason it spreads so rapidly is transmission by pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people.

[AnotherSpin]

Indeed. It is not uncommon for people to have a very mild or even asymptomatic case of COVID. It's the luck of the draw. Other than comorbidities, the reason some people get deathly ill from it and others barely notice it is still not understood. And one reason it spreads so rapidly is transmission by pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people.

The so-called "science" doesn't understand much about COVID, and not just about that. This doesn't prevent from enforcing compulsory vaccinations with who knows what, making people wear cloth on their faces, imposing radical restrictions on people's normal lives, and so on and so forth — there are no limits to the nonsense.

[Todd]

From the Graun: Mark Zuckerberg says White House 'pressured' Facebook to censor Covid-19 content

Authoritarians the world over will leap to defend the censorship.

[Madiel]

From the Graun: Mark Zuckerberg says White House 'pressured' Facebook to censor Covid-19 content

Authoritarians the world over will leap to defend the censorship.

If anyone actually reads the story rather than just the headline, they will see that the censorship, in the sense of what the government wanted, didn't actually happen.

Whereas Facebook did get rid of certain kinds of posts of their own accord, and I applaud them for it.

[Todd]

See.

[Karl Henning]

This is not the actual mortality rate of covid. As far as I'm aware it was a bit higher, at least pre-vaccination.

Tangentially, for the "COVID is just the flu" crowd, given the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died, how goes this supposedly square with the influenza mortality rate?...

[Madiel]

See.

I have zero sympathy for the attitude to free speech that leads to people drinking Ivermectin and dying.

[Madiel]

Tangentially, for the "COVID is just the flu" crowd, given the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died, how goes this supposedly square with the influenza mortality rate?...

It's quite tricky to get proper data on this stuff. I found something from 2022 suggesting that the covid death rate might be up to 10 times higher than influenza, but that's frankly so early on with covid that I"m not sure how reliable that is, and then of course it's important to see how we're going with covid vaccinations, compared to a world where flu shots are fairly common.

I found stats from Australia saying that the 5-year average mortality rate for influenza was running at 0.36%, though this was with a big dip during the covid pandemic because flu cases were so low when everybody was staying home. The other day I saw something for covid with a mortality rate of 1.3 to 1.4%, but I'm honestly not sure whether that was at all comparable.

Just now I found a study which specifically looked at people hospitalised for either disease, not the general population. Within that group the covid risk was higher, but it had dropped a lot from the early days of the pandemic (vaccination, better knowledge about treatment, etc.): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2803749

I also found this American study showing that the impact of covid has been far greater, although I think when it talks about death rates it's in terms of deaths per population, not deaths per infections: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10168500/

This article is also a fairly straightforward about the far greater toll of covid: https://www.ahcancal.org/News-and-Communications/Blog/Pages/Flu-or-COVID-19---Which-is-Worse.aspx

[Karl Henning]

It's quite tricky to get proper data on this stuff. I found something from 2022 suggesting that the covid death rate might be up to 10 times higher than influenza, but that's frankly so early on with covid that I"m not sure how reliable that is, and then of course it's important to see how we're going with covid vaccinations, compared to a world where flu shots are fairly common.

I found stats from Australia saying that the 5-year average mortality rate for influenza was running at 0.36%, though this was with a big dip during the covid pandemic because flu cases were so low when everybody was staying home. The other day I saw something for covid with a mortality rate of 1.3 to 1.4%, but I'm honestly not sure whether that was at all comparable.

Just now I found a study which specifically looked at people hospitalised for either disease, not the general population. Within that group the covid risk was higher, but it had dropped a lot from the early days of the pandemic (vaccination, better knowledge about treatment, etc.): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2803749

I also found this American study showing that the impact of covid has been far greater, although I think when it talks about death rates it's in terms of deaths per population, not deaths per infections: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10168500/

This article is also a fairly straightforward about the far greater toll of covid: https://www.ahcancal.org/News-and-Communications/Blog/Pages/Flu-or-COVID-19---Which-is-Worse.aspx

Thanks! Anecdotally, a number of medical peeps observed at the time that cases of actual flu were way down, and they attributed this to COVID-driven precautions.

[Madiel]

Thanks! Anecdotally, a number of medical peeps observed at the time that cases of actual flu were way down, and they attributed this to COVID-driven precautions.

Yes. I'm pretty sure that the CDC tracks the number of cases in America. Without remembering the numbers, I know that flu cases plummeted in Australia in 2020 and 2021, and apparently in the winter of 2021 there wasn't a single flu-related death recorded, and only 3 hospital admissions compared to an average of just over 2,000 per year.

[steve ridgway]

I am not making suggestions. I am merely referring to my personal experience, which is the only thing that matters to me, unlike biased information taken from the internet. I can add that none of my relatives, friends, or acquaintances have experienced severe conditions from COVID.

Just a couple more n=1 studies but my wife and I decided to focus on boosting our immune systems rather than taking vaccines and haven't had anything serious since a bad flu (possibly "swine flu") quite a few years ago. I really don't think it's a good idea to force new medicines onto an entire population but fortunately we weren't in that situation.

[steve ridgway]

If anyone actually reads the story rather than just the headline, they will see that the censorship, in the sense of what the government wanted, didn't actually happen.

Whereas Facebook did get rid of certain kinds of posts of their own accord, and I applaud them for it.

"The company also deleted posts criticising Covid vaccines". I don't use Facebook but my wife tells me they wouldn't even allow the word vaccine and users had to resort to euphemisms and emojis like they have to do in China. The real discussion about this takes place on X Twitter.

The BBC version of this story however has censored this part, added "Mr Zuckerberg did not give further detail about the actions he regretted during the pandemic. At that time, his business removed posts for a variety of reasons" and focussed more on the Hunter Biden laptop story.

[AnotherSpin]

Just a couple more n=1 studies but my wife and I decided to focus on boosting our immune systems rather than taking vaccines and haven't had anything serious since a bad flu (possibly "swine flu") quite a few years ago. I really don't think it's a good idea to force new medicines onto an entire population but fortunately we weren't in that situation.

In Ukraine we were not under big pressure on this (vaccines, masks, etc.) And, after war started nobody was thinking about it much anyway. You see, war has its good outcomes too...