Cato's Grammar Grumble

[Cato]

At school I was taught to pronounce the vowel in  ἡ like the vowel in area or air (without the r obviously.) I wonder if the "ay" thing is just American. I've noticed that Americans can pronounce the French très as "tray"!  Tray bee-ann.

Yes, as I mentioned, there are different schools of thought on the pronunciation: the topic has brought back a memory of my professors in Classics saying that other countries had their own ways of pronouncing Ancient Greek, as verified in the link above.

I recall that two Greek-Americans, who knew Modern Greek, were in my Ancient Greek I class for a few weeks: they were under the mistaken impression that Ancient Greek would be an easy "A," because of their knowledge of Modern Greek.

They dropped out!  But they did comment that the ancient version should just use Modern Greek's pronunciation...for obvious reasons!   

[Florestan]

With all due respect for Profs. Crosby and Schaeffer, I think that when an educated Greek lawyer with a degree in Canon Law, namely @Wanderer, has explained us the historical evolution of the pronunciation of that Greek letter, we have a clear case of Graecia locuta, causa finita.

[Cato]

With all due respect for Profs. Crosby and Schaeffer, I think that when an educated Greek lawyer with a degree in Canon Law, namely @Wanderer, has explained us the historical evolution of the pronunciation of that Greek letter, we have a clear case of Graecia locuta, causa finita.

As the Romans and Ancient Greeks would say: "Euge!" 

[Florestan]

As the Romans and Ancient Greeks would say: "Euge!" 

I have my moments...

[Mandryka]

By the way, we were taught to pronounce ει as ay --  λύεις = luays.

[Cato]

By the way, we were taught to pronounce ει as ay --  λύεις = luays.

Yes, I was taught the same thing.

I have my moments...

They are always excellent moments!  😇

Speaking of reconstructing the sound of ancient languages, I have been investigating the theories about the origin and sound of Hunnic.

Wow!  The debates on that topic are something: Turkish, Yenisean, Mongolian, and even Indo-European! There is also "Unclassifiable,"* a very obscure language indeed! 


* Only 3 words of Hunnic are extant, outside of names: all three seem to be borrowed from Indo-European languages of some sort (or maybe not!). 

[Florestan]

"Euge!"

Spell it in English. 

[Cato]

Oh, here is a Golden Oldie Grumble, which I happened to see today in a movie review (The Favourite):

"...The movie revolves around the power struggle and personal dynamics between three women..."

It almost seems that using the word "among" means an anvil will instantly drop onto your head!





And "between you and I" (along with using "I" as an object of other prepositions) has been a widespread problem for a looong time!  😇

[Wanderer]

At school I was taught to pronounce the vowel in  ἡ like the vowel in area or air (without the r obviously.) I wonder if the "ay" thing is just American. I've noticed that Americans can pronounce the French très as "tray"!  Tray bee-ann.

This is actually a correct approximation of how the ήτα was pronounced in 5th century BC Athens. It was something between this and what I indicated above. The English language doesn't really have the phonology for it.

And the -ay seems indeed to be something distinctly American - and wrong. The pronunciation example of the French très as tray is spot on - it's an equally grating pronunciation mistake. 

[Wanderer]

Fascinating, given the background of the authors!

Scholarship has moved on since then. Surely this can't be the first outdated thing you encounter in a book.

[Wanderer]

But they did comment that the ancient version should just use Modern Greek's pronunciation...

Maybe because the so-called "modern" Greek pronunciation is itself ancient, dating back to the mid 4th / 3rd century BC.

As the Romans and Ancient Greeks would say: "Euge!" 

We are still saying it.

[Karl Henning]

Not saying that it's wrong, only that it is a phrase that I was surprised to hear: "a large molecule that struggles to be bio-available."

[DavidW]

Not saying that it's wrong, only that it is a phrase that I was surprised to hear: "a large molecule that struggles to be bio-available."

Back in college, when I taught origami models, I would way too often say, "It wants to do it. Just let it do it..." as if the paper had feelings on the matter. The part of that which is true is that the precreasing creates a tension in the model that is resolved by performing the collapse in question. But what I said still feels remarkably unhelpful!

[Karl Henning]

Back in college, when I taught origami models, I would way too often say, "It wants to do it. Just let it do it..." as if the paper had feelings on the matter. The part of that which is true is that the precreasing creates a tension in the model that is resolved by performing the collapse in question. But what I said still feels remarkably unhelpful!

I wonder now if there are many resources for struggling molecules, of what size soever. 🤔 

[JBS]

Not saying that it's wrong, only that it is a phrase that I was surprised to hear: "a large molecule that struggles to be bio-available."

I'm stuck on what the meaning of "bio-available" is.

[Karl Henning]

I'm stuck on what the meaning of "bio-available" is.

No kidding!

[Mandryka]

The question is more interesting than the answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability

[JBS]

The question is more interesting than the answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability

Thank you.

[Karl Henning]

The question is more interesting than the answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability

Separately, voice-to-text didn't employ one, so I added the apparently superfluous hyphen. I'm okay with that. 

[Iota]

I'm stuck on what the meaning of "bio-available" is.

I've always found the word bioavailable a useful/descriptive one in the context of food, which is where I came across it.

The question is more interesting than the answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability

Personally I think the answer's just as interesting as the question. For example if you suffer from low calcium, as I did for a while, and you know that oxalates bind to calcium and greatly inhibit its absorption in your body, that's a pretty useful thing to be aware of. Oxalates are very high for example in spinach, but potatoes, soy, beets and others also contain them, so one can alter one's diet accordingly as it suits.
On top of which oxalates also bind to calcium in the urine and can form calcium oxalate kidney stones, which if you've had a problem with them, seems well worth knowing. There are plenty of other things like phytates in certain foods for example, that inhibit minerals like iron, calcium, zinc, and magnesium, so again potentially useful.
This info needless to say came to me over time via the internet, with scientific sources to back it up sometimes, and one to a certain extent takes it on trust. But if it's helping then all well and good.