Please help me to understand The Missa Solemnis.

[ritter]

The best-known musical use of apprivoiser is probably the following:

"L'amour est un oiseau rebelle
Que nul ne peut apprivoiser
Et c'est bien en vain qu'on l'appelle
S'il lui convient de refuser..."

I'd say the meaning of the word is quite clear in those verses

[pjme]

"The characteristic that distinguishes the early Christian service from all other older and contemporary forms of worship is the central importance of the "congregation" (Greek: ekklesia) and its reliving of the Lord's Supper.

"What could increase the intensity of this reliving and release its transformative power better than music?" asks Assmann. In the "Missa Solemnis" Beethoven increases this intensity to a degree "where it goes beyond the scope of the worship service."

And the cultural scientist reminds us that in the mass, prayer becomes music, not the other way around"...

[Leo K.]

The Missa has been an important work for me since I first heard Bernstein's NYPO recording I found in a thrift store in 1988. I listen to it in the context of the other late works, especially the late string quartets, however, it can sound odd as the music is almost through composed, and other aspects of his late style are absent, like theme and variations. But the fugue aspect is there, and makes me think this work is looking beyond this late style, or perhaps his view on choral writing was different than his view on instrumental works during this late period.

[Mandryka]

I've been exploring some historic recordings today - Bruno Walter, Jasca Horenstein, Clemens Krauss. None of them seemed to be special enough to be worth the pain of listening to the appalling sound quality, given the high quality of modern performances.

On the other hand, there's something quite magical about the one from Constantin Silvestri. I can't explain it except by saying nonsense like he touches the G spot. It's deeply religious somehow, ecstasy in spades - no, that's nonsense, I don't even know what it means.

[Mandryka]

I've been exploring some historic recordings today - Bruno Walter, Jasca Horenstein, Clemens Krauss. None of them seemed to be special enough to be worth the pain of listening to the appalling sound quality, given the high quality of modern performances.

On the other hand, there's something quite magical about the one from Constantin Silvestri. I can't explain it except by saying nonsense like he touches the G spot. It's deeply religious somehow, ecstasy in spades - no, that's nonsense, I don't even know what it means.

I'm just going to put a quote from the person who made my transfer - I trust he won't mind - it captures the spirit of this extraordinary performance so much better than I can

The recordings shared here are of exceptional importance,preserving the first performance in Romania of these two works.Although recorded live,there are not extraneous noises like coughs but the general quality is not the best even for its age.Beethoven was recorded in June 1952 while Mozart on the 27th of January 1956. Listening to both recordings, especially the Missa Solemnis, you will be amazed by a totally involved,engulfing devotional passion flooding from the choir and the soloists.Its not only an artistical statement but also a personal one:in those dark years,playing sacred music was forbdden, as every sign of faith: churches were "refurbished" in factories ,Jews asking to make their alyah were imprisoned.Therefore the light coming from faith,from prayers,its like a fable light coming through a door left ajar.For me this is The Missa Solemnis-it has the untamed dispair,the human weakness,the unshaken hope the Beethoven wanted to express..It is Man striving for G-d,trying in vain to get beyond its own limits and onthological condition.

[Mandryka]

The best-known musical use of apprivoiser is probably the following:

"L'amour est un oiseau rebelle
Que nul ne peut apprivoiser
Et c'est bien en vain qu'on l'appelle
S'il lui convient de refuser..."

I'd say the meaning of the word is quite clear in those verses

Is there a connection between apprivoiser and comprendre or apprendre?

I just heard someone say that they needed to réapprivoiser a subject in order to be able to do a task. And I just found this where someone proposes the translation "attune to something"

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/r%C3%A9apprivoiser.815820/

[Florestan]

Is there a connection between apprivoiser and comprendre or apprendre?

I don't know but if you replaced apprivoiser with comprendre or apprendre in that famous Carmen quatrain, it would make sense just as well. 

[Mandryka]

I don't know but if you replaced apprivoiser with comprendre or apprendre in that famous Carmen quatrain, it would make sense just as well. 

Attune -- you've got to attune yourself to the nature of the rose. YES!!!!!

[Mandryka]

Il faut apprivoiser la rose = il faut être sur la même longueur d'onde que la rose. You've got to be in sync with the rose, in harmony with the rose. Tuned into the rose.

 Turn on, tune in, drop out.