The Classical Style

[Fëanor]

...
I would also like to note that there are other composers whose music is more apt to be misconstrued as "manipulative." Schumann is quite emotionally tame as opposed to say, R. Strauss.

Not a big favorite of mine either, R. Strauss.  Take the Four Last Songs ... please.

[Florestan]

You like broccoli, I like spinach -- don't take it so personally.

Oh, but I didn't. I just reacted to a grossly exaggerated statement of yours.

"Puke, retch":  so sorry, a bit of hyperbole on my part.  Then again, "... as one of the greatest achievements of the human spirit" at applied to Schumann's music sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. 

It is hyperbolic, but had I written just "Hey, I like Schumann", would you still have regretted your words?

Viva the 2nd Viennese School.  Viva Elliot Carter.  Viva Iannis Xenakis.  Viva Karlheinz Stockhausen.

I don't like this kind of music, neither shall I deride or insult it. Instead, I heartily join you: Vivat all of them!

[Haffner]

Again for me, the Romantic era is really about the shameless exploitation of emotion and sentimentality, an often self-indulgent wallowing in these feelings.  I'm definitely not a Romantic era fan, although some romantics like, maybe, Berlioz, are fun, and some like say, Dvorak, just don't get too carried way.  But Schumann for example, it's puke, retch as far as I'm concerned.

Right.

[Haffner]

Thank you for this very illuminating and mind-opening post. I've always considered Romanticism in general - and Schumann's music in particular - as one of the greatest achievements of the human spirit, but now I've seen the light and I repent my sins. Once again, thank you!

Can I please join the ranks of the converted as well? Can I huh huh ?

[Haffner]

Not a big favorite of mine either, R. Strauss.  Take the Four Last Songs ... please.

Ah.

[longears]

Not a big favorite of mine either, R. Strauss.  Take the Four Last Songs ... please.

Happily.  They'll go to the desert island with me--but probably nothing else by Strauss.  I don't care a lot for Schumann, either, but not for his wallowing, rather because he rarely takes flight--for me.

[Fëanor]

Oh, but I didn't. I just reacted to a grossly exaggerated statement of yours.

It is hyperbolic, but had I written just "Hey, I like Schumann", would you still have regretted your words?

I don't like this kind of music, neither shall I deride or insult it. Instead, I heartily join you: Vivat all of them!

Peace, Florestan,

Yes, I reget my words, though not the underlying sentiment.  Schumann's statute is secure with or without my endorsement, and I don't doubt his craftsmanship though I haven't got the technical skills to fully appreciate them.

As for the contemporary composers, I can appreciate that they aren't everyone's cup of tea.  I won't try to persuade you that you ought to like them.  0:)

[Fëanor]

Happily.  They'll go to the desert island with me--but probably nothing else by Strauss.  I don't care a lot for Schumann, either, but not for his wallowing, rather because he rarely takes flight--for me.

This is sort of my problem with Brahms.  His music is uniformally bland to me:  I prefer stuff with a bit more "grit".  This would be why I prefer, say, Janacek or Shostakovich.

[longears]

This is sort of my problem with Brahms.  His music is uniformally bland to me:  I prefer stuff with a bit more "grit".  This would be why I prefer, say, Janacek or Shostakovich.

I can relate to that, and like the idea of "grit" to characterize it.  Sort of captures why I like Adams and Reich but most of Glass sounds like background music.  Of course, not all grit is on the surface.  Sibelius in particular seems deceptive in that way.  And I think Brahms does have grit, but often it's been polished to a near-glassy smoothness.  Also noted for grit are Stravinsky and Prokofiev.  I hear it occasionally in those mid-19th Century Germanic Romantics--Death and the Maiden hastens to mind--but not consistently enough to keep me intrigued. 

[Fëanor]

I can relate to that, and like the idea of "grit" to characterize it.  Sort of captures why I like Adams and Reich but most of Glass sounds like background music.  Of course, not all grit is on the surface.  Sibelius in particular seems deceptive in that way.  And I think Brahms does have grit, but often it's been polished to a near-glassy smoothness.  Also noted for grit are Stravinsky and Prokofiev.  I hear it occasionally in those mid-19th Century Germanic Romantics--Death and the Maiden hastens to mind--but not consistently enough to keep me intrigued. 

As I reply, I've just finished listening to Sibelius' Symphony No.7.  I have a way to go with Sibelius, but I must say there is a definite sense of drama and tension underlying that work, if not precisely "grit".

Gritty or not, and Romantic or not, Schubert is one of my favorite composers.  It's mind-bogglying to consider what his output would have been if he had composed for another 30 or 40 years.

[Gurn Blanston]

It sure seems like we've drifted a long way from The Classical Style. Pity, really, since we had barely scratched the surface.   

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Now playing: Berlioz Harold en Italie & Les Troyens - London SO / Colin Davis - Berlioz Harold in Italy pt 3 - Serenade of an Abruzzian Mountain Dweller to his Mistress: Allegro assai - Allegretto

[DavidW]

It sure seems like we've drifted a long way from The Classical Style. Pity, really, since we had barely scratched the surface.   

I take full blame for abandoning a project nearly as soon as I started it.

[BachQ]

This is sort of my problem with Brahms.  His music is uniformally bland to me: 

Funny, Brahms is the least "bland" composer I know .........

[Ten thumbs]

In essence the classical style ought to contain pure beautiful lines. Perhaps after the fashion of Palladio. I think Mozart comes nearest to this ideal. Someone once complained to me that Mozart never got anywhere. That of course is because he is there already, right from the first note. Ultimately Classicism becomes far more complex but we can still see its roots. Those of you who dislike emotional manipulation obviously hate the movies where it is stock in trade. How is it done? It's done through continuous tension, and drama too. I find the definition of 'grit' airy-fairy but then I come from the North of England. We know about grit up here. Anyway there's more anger and violence in Schubert's music than you'll ever find in Stravinsky's.

[Fëanor]

Funny, Brahms is the least "bland" composer I know .........

One is temped to say, Don't know many composers, eh?  But I will forbear.

[Haffner]

One is temped to say, Don't know many composers, eh?  But I will forbear.

How wonderful to have such a gracious, discriminating person on this forum.

[Fëanor]

How wonderful to have such a gracious, discriminating person on this forum.

To whom are you referring?  Dm or myself?  If Dm insists that Brahms is the least bland composer he know, then perhaps he should have to grace to ante up a few examples of non-bland Brahms music.  I dare say Dm is more erudite than I, and I'm prepared to be educated.

... Or perhaps you, Haffner, will do so.  In this thread your contributions have been mostly one-liners.  Do you suppose that your 2000-odd posts put you above criticism and entitled to make snide remarks unquestioned?

[Haffner]

... Or perhaps you, Haffner, will do so.  In this thread your contributions have been mostly one-liners.  Do you suppose that your 2000-odd posts put you above criticism and entitled to make snide remarks unquestioned?

No. I `hope that I don't give that impression by accident. I certainly don't intend to be snide. Some posters appear to me to write things without thinking adequately.

But that's my opinion. I'm just some bumf**k guitar teacher in Burlington, Vermont. Not exactly a prisitine sort of person.

[Fëanor]

No. I `hope that I don't give that impression by accident. I certainly don't intend to be snide. Some posters appear to me to write things without thinking adequately.

OK.  I hope you and I can called it equal then.  Peace.

[arkiv]

Johann Georg Albrechtsberger could be a representation of the epitome of cyclonic classicism.