Headphones

[drogulus]

     This is interesting. This graph compares the Senn HD280 Pro with the Denon AH-D2000:

     

     The Denon's are far more expensive but might be worth it.

[Valentino]

Siegfried Linkwitz has this very interresting write-up on phones and phone amps:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm

[Scarpia]

     This is interesting. This graph compares the Senn HD280 Pro with the Denon AH-D2000:

     

     The Denon's are far more expensive but might be worth it.

That's the graph that got me interested, flat as a board down to 20 Hz.  The price of the Denon is not as high as it seems, there is a $50 discount coupon available on the headphone.com site (to evade the minimum advertised price requirement from Denon).

[DavidW]

If you get them Scarpia, please post your thoughts.  There are times when I want a closed headphone but I currently have none.

[drogulus]

     I'm happy with the Senns so I'm not in the market right now. If the Denons can be used without an amp they might be the best closed-back choice for the Pod. The sensitivity is lower but not that low, so I think the Pod will drive them to the level I need.

[Scarpia]

    I'm happy with the Senns so I'm not in the market right now. If the Denons can be used without an amp they might be the best closed-back choice for the Pod. The sensitivity is lower but not that low, so I think the Pod will drive them to the level I need.

I have the Sennheiser HD 240 you mentioned, but these would be to replace the defective HD600.  I don't love the HD 240 because they are too noise isolating, to the extent that you tend to hear yourself breathing and sound conducted by the cable, etc.  The Denons are closed, but not nearly as isolating, which I want.  (I like the sound of the HD600, and t I guess I really want is a version of the HD600 that would work properly.)

The one clearly annoying thing about the Denon set is that no one seems to have them.

[Coopmv]

Fan club?
I have two pairs. HD580 Precision for serious stuff and PX100 for while on the move.
But I do think that the new HD800 is way to expensive to replace the 580's. Before hearing them that is!
I find the AKG K701 an interesting alternative.

The AKG 240 was the first serious pair of headphones I bought.  I was still in college at the time ...

[jlaurson]

I have the Sennheiser HD 240 you mentioned, but these would be to replace the defective HD600.  I don't love the HD 240 because they are too noise isolating, to the extent that you tend to hear yourself breathing and sound conducted by the cable, etc.  The Denons are closed, but not nearly as isolating, which I want.  (I like the sound of the HD600, and t I guess I really want is a version of the HD600 that would work properly.)

The one clearly annoying thing about the Denon set is that no one seems to have them.

If you were happy with the HD600 (probably depends on why they don't work anymore) and you don't want too much of an expense, I recommend looking around for HD580. Perhaps you can snag a pair that's new or refurbished for cheap. I find the HD580 at the exact same level with the 600, only more suitable to the way I want to listen to classical music. HD650 would be a notable, if not staggering, upgrade. HD800 has a very different sound than either of these three... much more open, much clearer... more Grado-like, almost.

[Coopmv]

This is the headphones to own and currently unavailable on eBay ...   



Check this out ... The ultimate tech luxuries  

[Scarpia]

If you were happy with the HD600 (probably depends on why they don't work anymore) and you don't want too much of an expense, I recommend looking around for HD580. Perhaps you can snag a pair that's new or refurbished for cheap. I find the HD580 at the exact same level with the 600, only more suitable to the way I want to listen to classical music. HD650 would be a notable, if not staggering, upgrade. HD800 has a very different sound than either of these three... much more open, much clearer... more Grado-like, almost.

The problem with the HD600 is that they were defective (buzzing in left earpiece) and are under repair.  Other posters in this forum have reported that it takes Sennheiser 2 months to process a repair.  The HD580 is out of the question because (aside from being discontinued) I am no mood to give Sennheiser more of my business.

[Coopmv]

The problem with the HD600 is that they were defective (buzzing in left earpiece) and are under repair.  Other posters in this forum have reported that it takes Sennheiser 2 months to process a repair.  The HD580 is out of the question because (aside from being discontinued) I am no mood to give Sennheiser more of my business.

Your HD600 might have been an isolated case.  I have owned mine for at least 5 years and they sound fine to me.  I have the AKG K701 and Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro as backups.  Actually, I can use anyone of them at a given time depending on my mood.  I tend to use the DT990 with my desktop more often.

[Scarpia]

So no one has any experience with Denon AH-D2000 or AH-D5000?

[Scarpia]

Unrelated question.  I find the crossfeed supplied by headroom products (such as the BitHead) to be very helpful.  Is there software (a codec, I guess) which would implement this in software so that audio streamed by Realaudio, Mediaplayer, etc, has cross-feed built in?

BTW, Denon AH-D2000 is on order, and I just heard that Sennheiser has shipped the headphones I sent in for warranty repair (a lot faster than I expected).

[DavidW]

Foobar2000 has a crossfeed plugin.

[PerfectWagnerite]

That's the graph that got me interested, flat as a board down to 20 Hz.  The price of the Denon is not as high as it seems, there is a $50 discount coupon available on the headphone.com site (to evade the minimum advertised price requirement from Denon).

The graph doesn't give you the phase response which is just as important as the amplitude response.

[Valentino]

Any chance of abrupt phase shifts in (good) headphones?

Phase response is generally way overrated by audiophiles. We do have a peculiar talent for focusing on the minor stuff.

[Scarpia]

The graph doesn't give you the phase response which is just as important as the amplitude response.

To say it is just as important seems inconsistent, if a frequency is absent, who cares what its phase is? 

For what it's worth, the same web site has other graphs including time domain information (square wave responses) which seem to reflect the frequency response data. 

[PerfectWagnerite]

To say it is just as important seems inconsistent, if a frequency is absent, who cares what its phase is? 

For what it's worth, the same web site has other graphs including time domain information (square wave responses) which seem to reflect the frequency response data. 

The phase info is important because it tells you how close you are to potential oscillations in the response.

The square wave response gives you ideas about the fequency response but doesn't tell you much. I think they omitted the data either because:

A) they didn't test it
B) it sucks and they didn't want people to know

[PerfectWagnerite]

Any chance of abrupt phase shifts in (good) headphones?

Phase response is generally way overrated by audiophiles. We do have a peculiar talent for focusing on the minor stuff.

Minor or not minor, there are parameters, figure of merits that are not up to debate, unlike "so and so is a better composer than so and so". If someone thinks a pair of headphones is better than the other pair, then plot the numbers and let the numbers speak for themselves.

Any chance of abrupt phase shifts in good headphones? Unlikely. Then again you are assuming, which is not science.

FWIW this is the graph versus the Sennheiser 280 again, a pair of headphones costing about 1/6 as much:



Nothing really different until about 20 Khz (yes a little different at 20 hz to DC but you can't tell anyway), which I don't know about you but most people can't hear that well (especially if they are older like myself). So what exactly are you paying for? You can say you got a "better" pair of headphones (and the DENON are better as far as the numbers are concerned) but does it make any real difference in your listening pleasure, unlikely.

[DavidW]

I don't think that we should necessarily elevate those numbers to factual information.  The problem is that (a) headroom seems to be the only ones that have done these measurements, they haven't been widely reproduced, and (b) their methodology can be questioned.

These graphs are interesting but only tell part of the story.  I'm not an audiophile but I agree with PW that phase information should be important, the signal requires both amplitude and phase, obviously both are important.