Where to start with Mozart

Started by Waitaminuet, April 26, 2013, 04:18:30 PM

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RebLem

Mozart was the guy who developed the piano concerto, the opera, and the piano sonata in their modern forms, so I think these are the places to start.  An incomplete set of the piano concerti, but with some of the greatest performances ever recorded, are those by Robert Casadesus with George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra, and all of Casadesus's recordings of Mozart for what is now Sony are now in one box.  Get it.

As for the piano sonatas, I have two sets to recommend.  Walter Gieseking for all the Mozart solo piano music is great for mastery of form and structure, but for its wonderfully felicitous and inspired attention to detail, I recommend Alicia de Laroccha.

Then, of course, opera.  Four of his last five operas are generally recognized as his greatest--Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute), Cosi fan tutte, The Marriage of Figaro, and, the greatest of all, Don Giovanni.  I am not that much of an expert on great performances of these, except that Giulini's Marriage of Figaro is generally recognized as one of the best performances of that opera.  Get your recommendations for the others from other people. 
"Don't drink and drive; you might spill it."--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father.

Karl Henning

Quote from: RebLem on June 19, 2013, 03:45:23 AM
Mozart was the guy who developed the piano concerto, the opera, and the piano sonata in their modern forms . . . 

Yes to both the piano concerto and opera;  that honor w/r/t the piano sonata, however, (as with, e.g., the symphony and string quartet) rightly pertains to Haydn.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Jay F

I recommend the Piano Concertos. My favorite complete sets are those by Brendel, Anda, Uchida, and Perahia.

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Box sets are so inexpensive now, buying one instead of individual discs makes good financial sense.


Parsifal

#23
I have and like the Brendel set but Neville Marriner's flacid accompaniment can be a problem.  Brendel/Mackerras is more to my liking (not complete).

You left out my favorite one.


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My other favorite one, Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic, is oop, unfortunately. 

Jay F

Quote from: Scarpia on June 20, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
I have and like the Brendel set but Neville Marriner's flacid accompaniment can be a problem.  Brendel/Mackerras is more to my liking (not complete).

You left out my favorite one.


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My other favorite one, Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic, is oop, unfortunately.
I would probably like the Schiff. He's my favorite Bach pianist, and I like his Beethoven PS as well. I haven't thought I needed a set of PCs in quite some time, but one can always be wrong on such things.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Scarpia on June 20, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
You left out my favorite one.


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A fine, fine, fine, fine set. 8)



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Roberto

I think the best way to listening Mozart is the period instrument way.  :)
People who suggested Rene Jacobs' opera recordings are true. For me these opera recordings are the true Mozart. I would suggest starting with the Idomeneo. If you interested in symphonies too he has two great symphony CDs also.

Piano concertos: very imortant pieces in case of Mozart. I think Gardiner and Bilson are the best and their complete box is easy to find. (Hogwood and Levin maybe even more better but unfortunately their CDs are hard to find.)

String quartets: Alban Berg Quartet. They don't play in HIP way but I dind't find better.

Piano sonatas: Ronald Brautigam on BIS CDs. The sound of the fortepiano is wonderful and Brautigam is very inspired performer.

Violin Sonatas: Podger/Cooper. Easy to find SACDs and beautiful performances.

Clarinet Concerto: Martin Frost on BIS SACD. Not period instrument but beautiful playing.

prémont

#27
Quote from: Roberto on July 08, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
I think the best way to listening Mozart is the period instrument way.  :)


Piano sonatas: Ronald Brautigam on BIS CDs. The sound of the fortepiano is wonderful and Brautigam is very inspired performer.

I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

Sergeant Rock

#28
Quote from: Jay F on June 20, 2013, 10:46:03 AM
I recommend the Piano Concertos. My favorite complete sets are those by Brendel, Anda, Uchida, and Perahia.

My favorites are Bilson/Gardiner, Barenboim and Casadesus/Szell  :D ;) (and don't believe the BS about Szell conducting the Columbia; it's Cleveland).







Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

kishnevi

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.

+1 for van Oort. 

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.

Hmm...and I don't recommend the Badura-Skoda. I once had the complete set and found it subpar. Oh well, I guess we could go round and round like this 'till the cows come home. ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Roberto

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
I don't know them well but I think Brautigam's style is pure and simple. Maybe too predictable but it is a good starting point to the other great performers like Oort, Staier or Levin.

71 dB

I think the starting point for Mozart's music is the piano concertos.

Quote from: karlhenning on June 19, 2013, 04:04:48 AM
Yes to both the piano concerto and opera;  that honor w/r/t the piano sonata, however, (as with, e.g., the symphony and string quartet) rightly pertains to Haydn.

I don't believe that Mozart and Haydn alone developped any of this. Music development is about getting influenced by others and having impact on others in return. Vanhal, Dittersdorf, Beck, Hofmann, etc. where part of the process too even if their impact was smaller. For example, Mozart's operas are heavily influenced by Dittersdorf's oratorio Giob, a work Mozart admired a lot.

This kind of ignorance of "lesser" composers is ridiculous.
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Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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The new erato

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 09, 2013, 05:23:52 PM
Hmm...and I don't recommend the Badura-Skoda. I once had the complete set and found it subpar. Oh well, I guess we could go round and round like this 'till the cows come home. ;D
My favorites are Guldas (aka the Mozart tapes). Maybe idiosyncratic, but oh so alive and exciting.

71 dB

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.

But if your idea of the music were wider, Brautigam's style could fit, right? Now you let Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort define your idea of the music.

I have Klára Würtz. I suppose she doesn't fit your idea of the music either? Well, I don't care.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

prémont

Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 02:34:49 AM
But if your idea of the music were wider, Brautigam's style could fit, right? Now you let Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort define your idea of the music.

I have Klára Würtz. I suppose she doesn't fit your idea of the music either? Well, I don't care.

I never let any musician - no matter how excellent - decide my idea of any music, and my idea of these sonatas stems from my own playing of many of them, long before I heard them played.

Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart. On the contrary I find Würtz substantial and manly - not heavyhanded, and I generally enjoy her playing, even she is not among my top five.

Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

Karl Henning

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart.

Well, but if your idea of Mozart's music were wider, so that it included the idea that the music could be uninspired and leaden . . . . ; )
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

71 dB

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
I never let any musician - no matter how excellent - decide my idea of any music, and my idea of these sonatas stems from my own playing of many of them, long before I heard them played.

Obviously you don't think yourself as a musician, yet you are eager to criticize the playing of some musicians (Brautigam). Sure, some players may not be your cup of tea, but why generalise your ideas to concern all people? What if someone played these sonatas differently and have other kind of ideas of the music? How did Mozart himself play these sonatas? Precisely according to your ideas? 

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AMEssentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart. On the contrary I find Würtz substantial and manly - not heavyhanded, and I generally enjoy her playing, even she is not among my top five.

I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart, only Haydn and Beethoven. I have never found him heavy-handed on those. But that's just my idea of heavy-handed playing so I allow others disagree.  ;)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Karl Henning

Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 06:24:34 AM
I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart

In other words, you are quarreling over something you've not listened to, and therefore have no direct experience with ; )
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Wakefield

Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart.

As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.

BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:

1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)

I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM.  :)
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire