Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Scarpia]

Yes and the chances of Regis getting to work with the master tapes is zero. From what I have heard from a veteran CD buyer from Tower (now at a used store) is that Regis isn't a very reputable label.

Regis licenses and re-issues titles from the major labels.  Same procedure as Testament, Brilliant, Newton classics, etc.   I don't see what could be disreputable about that.   They say their issue is based on a new transfer, so I suppose that means that DG ran the tapes for them and sent over the raw conversion for Regis to tinker with.  With a mono tape, the only thing they can really do is adjust the equalization and patch up drop-outs or clumsy splices.  I hope they kept those idiotic noise suppression systems away from it. 

Unless the transfer is from LPs.  At this point, those might be in better shape than the tapes.

[Lilas Pastia]

Regis, like Membran reissue plenty of stuff, some old, some not quite old. I have no idea what their sources are. I'll certainly not pay a hundred pesos for that set but at, say, a third of that you can count me in. I see there is a review from Gramophone that finds the sound substantially better than in the stereo set, whereas an Amazon reviewer says the stereo set will satisfy more in terms of sonics. Interestingly, both review the DG issue, but the articles display a different cover art... All agree on the excellence of the musical results. In short, a classic for those who like to have a Library Version. I'll keep an eye open for De Deal...

Continuing apace in my exploration of Heikdsieck's set I've listened to sonatas 1-7,12-23,25 and 26. One of my favourites, no. 7 failed to grab my attention. I may have been tired and inattentive. Will have to give it more hearings. Yves Nat is my yardstick in this.

In the seldom heard sonata 12 Heidsieck DID grab my attention, especially in the bizarre Marcia funebre ('on the death of a Hero' - who is that? ). Time and again when listening to that set I find a rightness to Heidsieck's approach that not only silences criticism, but also quelches any desire to hear another version. That's no mean fest, yours truly being the compulsive Comparator. Of course it helps that I have but a tiny fraction of the LvB sonatas compared to other works such as the symphonies.

Sonata 14: was I in a particularly receptive mood? Never have I heard such pain and nobility in the opening Adagio sostenuto (the booklet has this labeled 'Allegro sostenuto' . The range of dynamics is not overly exploited (no cheap over-emoting here) , but the phrasing, accents, pedaling all concur to make this simply unique. In the evergreen Allegretto that follows Heidsieck does not make me forget Rubinstein's uncanny barcarolle-like phrasing. Heidsieck uses a very different approach to the rythms. Where Rubinstein smooths them to bring out a dancing quality, Heidsieck underlines their Petrouchka-like character: at once aggressive and beguiling. The final Presto agitato is taken at a whirlwind pace. I think it almost strains his technical abilities. But goodness gracious! It's mighty exciting.

I think one of this pianist's main attributes is his uncanny faculty to bring out Beethoven's wide dynamic changes (often in the same phrase) while keeping a steady flow, often in tricky rythmic patterns. He makes phrases and paragraphs sound whole instead of parceled, seamless instead of disjointed, while  keeping intact all the quirks of Beethoven's dynamics, rythms and melodic shaping.

The sound is excellent. Rarely have I been as satisfied by a set of something. So far, not a foot put wrong.

[Mandryka]

I've had a selection of the Kempff mono cycle for many years. Each sonata in it (IIRC 8, 14, 17, 21, 23, 24, 26, 29) was more interesting than the stereo remake and quite good sounding. This was on a pair of Quintessence cassettes, so obviously of limited sonic appeal and it still held my attention as very few others have.

You could well be right. I think I took a rather good transfer of the mono cycle on spotify to be the stereo recording!

This is a danger with spotify. You don't have the booklet to confirm exactly what you're listening to. Have to look out for that in future.

[Holden]

I've 'bagged' Regis on the Kempff but I also have other Regis CDs where the sound is very good. Maybe I got a bad CD thought I don't think so. The Regis release may have caused a drop in the DG price so I've just ordered the Kempff DG for $38 Australian from MDT. I'll report back about the sound quality. I'm also hoping for better booklet notes.

[Scarpia]

If and where Regis licenses stuff that's out of copyright, they ... how to phrase this...  I wouldn't be surprised if they just copy the latest CDs of the music and make it their own. That's technically not legal, but it's never been challenged in court in the history of semi-pirating. What they would have to do, technically, is go back to a release that is also out of copyright. (LP or even earlier or org. tapes, where extant, if they had access, which they don't likely have.) It's almost common procedure to piggy-bag ride on the restoration / digitalization work of others... even among big-name companies. I know Audite's work has been re-cycled that way plenty of times. (And in a way I do hope that a law suit will be filed, eventually, to stop the practice.)

As I understand it, if they licensed the stuff (as they explicitly claim to do) there would be nothing illegal about using the previous CD reissue as the basis for their release.  Presumably that is what they are paying for.  For out of copyright material they can distribute without a license, and that's when they presumably would have to copy from the original source (i.e., the original LP pressing, not a CD re-release).

For the Kempff, they say on their own web site that their release is "new transfers."  So unless they are lying, they either used LPs or they got DG to digitize the tape for them.

[jwinter]

Haven't heard the Regis, but I do have the mono Kempff in the latest DG edition, and think the sound is quite good -- I never felt the need to get the stereo set, even when it was quite cheap, as I'm pretty well satisfied with the mono.  With luck they're using the same transfers, or have only minimally tinkered with them -- they sounded fine to me.

[Brian]

Pristine Audio has Schnabel's complete Waldstein finale available on their webpage as a free sample. After hearing his Waldstein on Naxos and thinking it miraculous but in poor sound, I'm speechless. Somebody go listen and complain about the restoration before I drop 81 euros on FLACs of the whole series.

[George]

Pristine Audio has Schnabel's complete Waldstein finale available on their webpage as a free sample. After hearing his Waldstein on Naxos and thinking it miraculous but in poor sound, I'm speechless. Somebody go listen and complain about the restoration before I drop 81 euros on FLACs of the whole series.

Sounds like Pristine turned down the treble and turned up the bass. I imagine you could do the same, Brian, and save yourself the dough. I like the Naxos as it is though, more clarity and room ambiance.

[George]

Pristine Audio has Schnabel's complete Waldstein finale available on their webpage as a free sample. After hearing his Waldstein on Naxos and thinking it miraculous but in poor sound, I'm speechless. Somebody go listen and complain about the restoration before I drop 81 euros on FLACs of the whole series.

Compare the Pristine and the Naxos from 2:20 to 2:30. The Pristine sounds dull, murky and over-reverberant to me.

[Todd]

24-bit Studio-quality Ambient Stereo FLAC.  Whew, that's a mouthful.  Few things are more annoying than synthesized stereo.

[Wakefield]

Do you have any opinion on the Musical Concepts remastering of Schnabel?

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[George]

Do you have any opinion on the Musical Concepts remastering of Schnabel?

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Haven't heard it, nor have I heard of the label. I'd avoid it. The Naxos titles are cheap, offer the best sound and are readily available overseas form MDT, Presto, etc. They are cheap too, you can try one CD.

Or you can sample 7 different transfers (in lossless sound) of the central movement from the Moonlight Sonata here - http://www.mediafire.com/?lvppl6vj4omdj

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Haven't heard it, nor have I heard of the label. I'd avoid it.

Musical Concepts is the label that recently released Richter's exceedingly rare Spoleto recital.

I actually own the original Turnabout/Vox LPs of this recital and the job Musical Concepts did with their CD transfer is absolutely first-rate. Much clearer, fuller, and livelier than the LPs. If this helps anyone...




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[Wakefield]

Haven't heard it, nor have I heard of the label. I'd avoid it. The Naxos titles are cheap, offer the best sound and are readily available overseas form MDT, Presto, etc. They are cheap too, you can try one CD.

Or you can sample 7 different transfers (in lossless sound) of the central movement from the Moonlight Sonata here - http://www.mediafire.com/?lvppl6vj4omdj

Thanks!

Here you can hear some samples of the Musical Concepts release:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-1770-1827-Klaviersonaten-Nr-1-32/hnum/4561073

[Todd]

Haven't heard it, nor have I heard of the label. I'd avoid it.

They're a new-ish reissue shop.  Their Maurice Abravanel Mahler and Wyn Morris LvB are fine.  I don't know if they do new transfers or do straight reissues.  Well, the Mahler sounded identical to the earlier Vanguard reissue, so I think I know on that cycle.  It would be interesting to know which transfers serve as the basis of the Schnabel set.

[prémont]

There's a live [Backhaus Hammerklaviersonate] I think, but I don't know the date.

You are right. Haenssler has released a live recording from Carnegie Hall made in the 1950es. I do not know the precise date because the booklet has disappeared. It is coupled with a recording of the cis-minor sonata and a few encores. The approach is more spontaneous but not too much so (particularly in the cis-minor) than the other recordings I have heard from him, and the sound is surprisingly good (mono).

[Oldnslow]

I have the Musical Concepts remastered set of the Schnabel Beethoven sonatas, and find them to be just fine. I have no idea where they sourced the recordings but the remastering sounds very good to me, and the set is dirt cheap. Years ago I built a Heathkit amp and had it modified by a firm called Musical Concepts, and it sounded very fine for what it was, but I have no idea if this is the same Musical Concepts firm involved in the rmastering of the Schanbel sonatas. I did have one quirk with the set---a defective first volume that skipped. I read somewhere that there was a defect and a fix, and emailed them months after I bought the set, and they promptly sent out a new, corrected first disk. I was very impressed with their service.

[Coopmv]

Haven't heard it, nor have I heard of the label. I'd avoid it. The Naxos titles are cheap, offer the best sound and are readily available overseas form MDT, Presto, etc. They are cheap too, you can try one CD.

Or you can sample 7 different transfers (in lossless sound) of the central movement from the Moonlight Sonata here - http://www.mediafire.com/?lvppl6vj4omdj

I bought all those Schnabels on Naxos Historical except the concertos ...

[George]

I have the Musical Concepts remastered set of the Schnabel Beethoven sonatas, and find them to be just fine. I have no idea where they sourced the recordings but the remastering sounds very good to me, and the set is dirt cheap. Years ago I built a Heathkit amp and had it modified by a firm called Musical Concepts, and it sounded very fine for what it was, but I have no idea if this is the same Musical Concepts firm involved in the rmastering of the Schanbel sonatas. I did have one quirk with the set---a defective first volume that skipped. I read somewhere that there was a defect and a fix, and emailed them months after I bought the set, and they promptly sent out a new, corrected first disk. I was very impressed with their service.

If you don't mind uploading the central movement of the Moonlight Sonata in lossless form, I'd love to add it to my mediafire folder so that folks could compare.

[Oldnslow]

Sorry, but you are talking to a computer illiterate, who can barely navigate a website...hehehe