Bruckner's Abbey

[kishnevi]

IMO a PI sound in these works would be totally alien and retrograde to the composer's evolution.

From this I assume you're not familiar with Herreweghe's recording of the Seventh.  If so, I suggest correcting the omission in the near future.

[Lilas Pastia]

From this I assume you're not familiar with Herreweghe's recording of the Seventh.  If so, I suggest correcting the omission in the near future.

I am, and it's neither an omission or an oversight . It takes two to tango, and in the case of Herreweghe, his interpretive abilities as a brucknerian are found severely wanting. No matter how clean and lustrous the sound of his orchestra, it is both undernourished (slightly but unmistakedly) and wanting in personality. As a matter of fact, just about everything Herreweghe interprets - if I can use that word - is dullish and dishwaterlike. Too bad because he is from the land of HIPness and by right should be one of the tenors of the movement. But I think it takes more than efficiency, musical rectitude and a lofty purpose to achieve musical illumination for the listener.

Sorry, but I have listened to a lot of Herreweghe and so far have only found him totally at ease and therefore convincing in the Mendelssohn MND music. A truly great record, fully competitive with Klemperer's in its toooootally different way.

And please don't bring his Missa Solemnis (runs for cover ).

Sorry for the disappointment, but you see me without any mask: I do have some serious blind spots and do not pretend to be musically correct - nor should anyone). As a matter of fact I find that, as I age, I'm getting more and more like my younger, late-teens and early twenties self: opinionated and prone to stubborness 

[kishnevi]

I am, and it's neither an omission or an oversight . It takes two to tango, and in the case of Herreweghe, his interpretive abilities as a brucknerian are found severely wanting. No matter how clean and lustrous the sound of his orchestra, it is both undernourished (slightly but unmistakedly) and wanting in personality. As a matter of fact, just about everything Herreweghe interprets - if I can use that word - is dullish and dishwaterlike. Too bad because he is from the land of HIPness and by right should be one of the tenors of the movement. But I think it takes more than efficiency, musical rectitude and a lofty purpose to achieve musical illumination for the listener.

Sorry, but I have listened to a lot of Herreweghe and so far have only found him totally at ease and therefore convincing in the Mendelssohn MND music. A truly great record, fully competitive with Klemperer's in its toooootally different way.

And please don't bring his Missa Solemnis (runs for cover ).

Sorry for the disappointment, but you see me without any mask: I do have some serious blind spots and do not pretend to be musically correct - nor should anyone). As a matter of fact I find that, as I age, I'm getting more and more like my younger, late-teens and early twenties self: opinionated and prone to stubborness 

You don't have to apologize to me, since I never stopped being opinionated and prone to stubborness.

Shame you don't like Herreweghe;  I do like his Mahler as well as his Bruckner.  Though I'm not particularly enthused about that  Missa Solemnis, so at least we agree on something!

(And am I correct in deducing you're not all that keen on Norrington either?)

[Brian]

Ignorable rant: what happened to Rapidshare?? Nearly all the links on Concertarchive, Symphonyshare, and Operashare are broken and Rapidshare is claiming the files can't at all be found. Distressing as I'd just found a (broken) link to a live performance of Bruckner's Seventh by Antoni Wit and the Warsaw Philharmonic...

[mc ukrneal]

Ignorable rant: what happened to Rapidshare?? Nearly all the links on Concertarchive, Symphonyshare, and Operashare are broken and Rapidshare is claiming the files can't at all be found. Distressing as I'd just found a (broken) link to a live performance of Bruckner's Seventh by Antoni Wit and the Warsaw Philharmonic...

I guess you haven't been following what happened at megaupload?

HEre is something of a summary of sorts: http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7364771/Megaupload-Hollywood-vs-the-Internet

[vandermolen]

Listened to Rattle's Bruckner's 9th with 4th movement yesterday. Thought the performance was great ans a wonderfully rich, mellow recording.  Not sure about the reconstructed 4th movement but once I got to the end I immediately wanted to listen again and I found the coda very moving and powerful. Like 'Elgar's 3rd Symphony' I shall keep coming back to this.

[Brian]

I guess you haven't been following what happened at megaupload?

HEre is something of a summary of sorts: http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7364771/Megaupload-Hollywood-vs-the-Internet

Oh, I knew about Megaupload and the Kim Dotcom madness, but I guess never realized Rapidshare would be stripping its site too. The demise of the filesharing sites makes it very hard to share legitimately share-able things.

[Lilas Pastia]

Another very appreciative listening to the Prêtre B8 with the Vienna Symphony.

Nowadays recordings are extracted from live events, which  stop being 'live', as musicians and conductor carefully aim to deliver a 'live-but-technically-perfect' performance. Well it wasn't always like that and, in some cases, it's still done the old way. The Prêtre 8th is one such instance. It's impossible to mistake this as anything other than a live event. Countless  details testify to the spontaneous fervour of that performance.

Jochum aimed at preserving a kind of 'ideal' live performance. He often failed (IMO) as what he produced sounded artificially exciting and sometimes plain unmusical. At his best ( in his last years) he nailed it, as in his 1982 Bamberg performances of the 8th, or Munich 9th.

What Prêtre achieves is to go back to Furtwängler and present it like Jochum: dynamic yet expansive, displaying the emotional side of the composer (never downplaying it) within a flexible yet firm structure. Lest it sound I'm attempting to rationalize a recording's very subjective virtues, well so be it. 

[jlaurson]

Christian Thielemann's Inauguration Concert
Hugo Wolf • Anton Bruckner

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/09/christian-thielemanns-inauguration.html

Listening earlier to this glorious account:


A. Bruckner
Symphony No.5
C.v.Dohnanyi / Cleveland Orchestra
Decca

German link - UK link
Glorious!!

[Cato]

Anyone interested in Herreweghe's Bruckner (which, I acknowledge, will not be everybody) might like to know that next Monday at 19:30 BST BBC Radio 3 will be broadcasting a performance of the 9th Symphony coupled with the Te Deum (I assume after, though the notes suggest before, which would be...odd) recorded last month at the Edinburgh Festival.

Well, maybe not so odd, if they intend to perform the Ninth with one of the performing versions of the Fourth Movement.  Any idea if that is the case?

[eyeresist]

Currently listening to the end of Maazel's 1974 recording of the 5th. Some of the first movement was taken very slowly, making me wonder if this is what Celibidache sounds like, but overall, from his pointing out of "skipping" rhythmic elements in the middle movements, my impression of this performance is "perky"
I like it - maybe I have finally have found one to sit beside my Wand/NDR recording?

[asin]B0006OS84A[/asin]

[mahler10th]

Currently listening to the end of Maazel's 1974 recording of the 5th....
I like it - maybe I have finally have found one to sit beside my Wand/NDR recording?

Wand was a brilliant Brucknerian.  I play more Bruckner than any other composer, and since getting Wand, I play more Wand than any other Bruckner conductor.  There is some character in Wands Bruckner, and a kind of disciplined freedom in it.  Maybe Maazels perkyness can sit beside your Wand/NDR recording, but just a wee bit further down?     

[eyeresist]

Wand was a brilliant Brucknerian.  I play more Bruckner than any other composer, and since getting Wand, I play more Wand than any other Bruckner conductor.  There is some character in Wands Bruckner, and a kind of disciplined freedom in it.  Maybe Maazels perkyness can sit beside your Wand/NDR recording, but just a wee bit further down? 

To be honest, I'm not a fan of what I've heard of late Wand (4 and 9 with Berlin); it seems to lack personality. The NDR 5 and 9 I have are controlled but more interesting (helped by a sound image with more depth), and I think his classical approach suits the 5th very well. I am intrigued by what I'll hear when I eventually get his Cologne cycle, as the 1970s live recording of the 8th I have (awful sound) seems quite extroverted by comparison to later recordings.

[jlaurson]

Wand was a brilliant Brucknerian....

Wand, Backhaus, Fricsay, Courzon, Kubelik... artists that I think really, actually managed to do more with less... articulate, rather than 'interpret', a piece of music -- without the result being bland and non-committal as all hell. Doesn't mean everything is great that they did (though with Fricsay very nearly so), but everything has innate musicality.

[Lilas Pastia]

I haven't heard the Maazel WP B5 in ages. Meaning, about 30 years ago. At the time, for someone whose first recordings were Jochum's dynamic, uplifting BRSO version and Klemperer's awe-inspiring, jaw-droppingly powerful vision, Maazel seemed unduly fast, unpredictable and wilful, devoid of grandeur and majesty. Lest those characteristics sound like a list of cardinal sins in Bruckner interpretation, so be it. I never reconciled myself to that B 5. Youth is unforgiving. Probably time for a reassessment

[Daverz]

I finally broke down and ordered the XRCD's of Kempe's Munich Bruckner 4 and 5 from Japan.  I think this is by far the most I've ever spent per CD (I was mostly interested in the 5th, but what the hell).  The lousy exchange rate adds to the pain.  These transfers better be damn good.  The transfers I have on some European fly-by-night label are crap.  I know the 5th from an old Odyssey LP, which is lovely sounding despite compression and so-so surfaces.

[Lilas Pastia]

Hi Dave, let us know about how these transfers sound. I have those in some kind of book+cd format and find them so rough as to hamper any kind of enjoyment. I'm pretty sure that something good is lying out there but you wouldn't guess it from listening to my cds ..

[DavidRoss]

Klemperer's awe-inspiring, jaw-droppingly powerful vision,

Ears perk up.

[Daverz]

Hi Dave, let us know about how these [Kempe] transfers sound. I have those in some kind of book+cd format and find them so rough as to hamper any kind of enjoyment. I'm pretty sure that something good is lying out there but you wouldn't guess it from listening to my cds ..

I haven't compared the Artone CDs, which I remember as crap.  I suspect the Artone CDs were taken from an earlier CD issue (Acanta?)  A Fanfare review mentions the bad sound of the Acanta issue while praising this Kempe performance in passing.  I wonder how the Scribendum issue sounds.

Now that my itch is scratched, the XRCD of the 5th sounds like any good analog remaster of a good recording from the 70s.   As much as I love this 5th, it's not really worth the outrageous XRCD price, I think.  JVC also splits the 5th unnecessarily across 2 CDs. 

I did listen to the Odyssey Lps recently, and those have a warmer, more present midrange, which I put down to compression and EQ for the Lp format.

EDIT: after listening to the adagio again, I have to say that it's quite beautiful, but still not worth those XRCD prices.

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks. I didn't expect miracles really. So far Kempe's Bruckner (4,5 and strikes me as efficient and objective, with some effort toward coaxing nice climaxes. But even the better ones he achieves are substantially below the level I look for: that of exaltation.

The real great Bruckner interps reach that cathartic level almost incidentally. That's because the music is left to speak for itself and the conductor lets his players have a musical hard-on where it counts. At that point the music simply wells up to an almost unbearable degree. Kempe's Bruckner is totally bearable.