Should Politics Be Banned From GMG?

[Sterna]

But the fact that you would have to resort to school yard antics only reinforces my point. Also, banning members who violate forum rules when they step out of line seems like a bridge too far to me, especially when this kind of behavior, which is all over the political threads could have easily been avoided had there been a ban on politics from start. Unfortunately, I've seen it far too many times that civil discussions cannot actually happen for long periods of time in the political threads.

If members behave like children, as I did yesterday (and apologies to all the well behaved children around the world), then I see no problem with 'school yard antics'. Otherwise the rules are completely useless. Deleting abusive posts seems to have no effect at all. It's just a matter of time before the circus starts again. Already after a handful of new posts in the unlocked USA politics thread, a member 'advised' another member to clear off there. Of course, the small and informative conversation between them was deleted by a mod afterwards. Now we can just wait what tomorrow will bring. Music lovers log in, and may witness a front page with another fresh amount of very informative and interesting posts about Trump and his friends & foes, including all kinds of trolling, mockery and disrespect. Great fun at a classical music board.

It's discouraging.

I have a few online classical music friends. We share our thoughts about music through a very old-fashioned medium called e-mail.
I suggested earlier this year that we should join GMG. They laughed, and wished me lots of fun in the Asylum, as one of them called it.
I can't prove it with stats, but I guess that many potentential classical music lovers, who come here to lurk around before they join in, are greatly amazed by the fact that Donald Trump seems to be the most popular composer around here. It's only one thread, but the front page keeps being contaminated with this subject. And when those lurkers start to read the thread, then I don't think that joining the 'Good Music Guide Forum' is getting more attractive to them.

I don't blame them.

[Karl Henning]

If members behave like children, as I did yesterday (and apologies to all the well behaved children around the world), then I see no problem with 'school yard antics'. Otherwise the rules are completely useless. Deleting abusive posts seems to have no effect at all. It's just a matter of time before the circus starts again. Already after a handful of new posts in the unlocked USA politics thread, a member 'advised' another member to clear off there. Of course, the small and informative conversation between them was deleted by a mod afterwards. Now we can just wait what tomorrow will bring. Music lovers log in, and may witness a front page with another fresh amount of very informative and interesting posts about Trump and his friends & foes, including all kinds of trolling, mockery and disrespect. Great fun at a classical music board.

It's discouraging.

I have a few online classical music friends. We share our thoughts about music through a very old-fashioned medium called e-mail.
I suggested earlier this year that we should join GMG. They laughed, and wished me lots of fun in the Asylum, as one of them called it.
I can't prove it with stats, but I guess that many potentential classical music lovers, who come here to lurk around before they join in, are greatly amazed by the fact that Donald Trump seems to be the most popular composer around here. It's only one thread, but the front page keeps being contaminated with this subject. And when those lurkers start to read the thread, then I don't think that joining the 'Good Music Guide Forum' is getting more attractive to them.

I don't blame them.

Good point.

[Mirror Image]

If members behave like children, as I did yesterday (and apologies to all the well behaved children around the world), then I see no problem with 'school yard antics'. Otherwise the rules are completely useless. Deleting abusive posts seems to have no effect at all. It's just a matter of time before the circus starts again. Already after a handful of new posts in the unlocked USA politics thread, a member 'advised' another member to clear off there. Of course, the small and informative conversation between them was deleted by a mod afterwards. Now we can just wait what tomorrow will bring. Music lovers log in, and may witness a front page with another fresh amount of very informative and interesting posts about Trump and his friends & foes, including all kinds of trolling, mockery and disrespect. Great fun at a classical music board.

It's discouraging.

I have a few online classical music friends. We share our thoughts about music through a very old-fashioned medium called e-mail.
I suggested earlier this year that we should join GMG. They laughed, and wished me lots of fun in the Asylum, as one of them called it.
I can't prove it with stats, but I guess that many potentential classical music lovers, who come here to lurk around before they join in, are greatly amazed by the fact that Donald Trump seems to be the most popular composer around here. It's only one thread, but the front page keeps being contaminated with this subject. And when those lurkers start to read the thread, then I don't think that joining the 'Good Music Guide Forum' is getting more attractive to them.

I don't blame them.

You're essentially echoing what I said in my first couple of posts in this thread. New membership seems to be at all-time low here and I do wonder what effect the political threads/discussions have on their decision to go any further than signing up? From the votes in this poll so far, it seems that there are more people unaffected by the political threads and don't mind that they're on GMG. We'll see where the votes go, but there does seem to be a silent minority who do feel political threads shouldn't be any part of what this forum is about.

[Mirror Image]

And if this board should be exclusively focused on music, then why not ban discussing literature, movies, food and beverages as well?

The reason these threads shouldn't be banned is because seldom does talking about wine or the latest iteration of Doctor Who cause people to insult each other and put the other down in a hateful, venomous manner. Let's just say, hypothetically, you just called me a bigot and a two-faced lackey to the Republican party for giving an opinion on a certain topic, then why in the world would I not take that personally? You don't see this kind of behavior when you discuss how to make a hollandaise sauce.

[71 dB]

I don't like limited forums. I like to be on a few forums only. If only a few things are allowed on each forum I need to on a dozen forums to discuss about everything I want. And each forum has it's own members. It's so stupid to be able to discuss with Karl Henning about Beethoven, but not Bernie Sanders. So stupid. What's the point of getting to know people online if moderators decide what you can communicate with these people.

Are these forums the new public aquare or not? If not, WHERE are the new public squares?

[Mirror Image]

I don't like limited forums. I like to be on a few forums only. If only a few things are allowed on each forum I need to on a dozen forums to discuss about everything I want. And each forum has it's own members. It's so stupid to be able to discuss with Karl Henning about Beethoven, but not Bernie Sanders. So stupid. What's the point of getting to know people online if moderators decide what you can communicate with these people.

Are these forums the new public aquare or not? If not, WHERE are the new public squares?

But the basis of your contributions to this forum, 71 dB, in the past year, have been in the political threads. You rarely talk about music and when you do talk about music, you complain that nobody talks to you after you make a post.

[Florestan]

The reason these threads shouldn't be banned is because seldom does talking about wine or the latest iteration of Doctor Who cause people to insult each other and put the other down in a hateful, venomous manner.

John, I suggest you ask moderator Knight66 (Mike) what the absolutely worst thread ever in terms of insults, abuse and hatred was about. You're in for a big surprise.

[71 dB]

But the basis of your contributions to this forum, 71 dB, in the past year, have been in the political threads. You rarely talk about music and when you do talk about music, you complain that nobody talks to you after you make a post.

Trump changed everything for me. I had very little interest in the US politics until 4 years ago. This year has been extreme in the US politics. Election year. Year of Covid-19. Year of BLM protests. Insane! It's hard to imagine anyone not interested of politics in the current World!
That's why I hope Biden makes the US politics again so utterly boring I don't want to follow it at all!! Boring centrist corporate status quo politics like it was during Obama's eight years.

When I post about politics, I gets tons of response. When I post about music I rarely get anything so what's the point?

[Sterna]

Trump changed everything for me. I had very little interest in the US politics until 4 years ago. This year has been extreme in the US politics. Election year. Year of Covid-19. Year of BLM protests. Insane! It's hard to imagine anyone not interested of politics in the current World!
That's why I hope Biden makes the US politics again so utterly boring I don't want to follow it at all!! Boring centrist corporate status quo politics like it was during Obama's eight years.

When I post about politics, I gets tons of response. When I post about music I rarely get anything so what's the point?

The point is, that this is a music board.

John, I suggest you ask moderator Knight66 (Mike) what the absolutely worst thread ever in terms of insults, abuse and hatred was about. You're in for a big surprise.

Maybe about music. I would not be surprised. I have been on (non-moderated) platforms where even death threats were thrown at each other, only about classical music and the way certain music should be performed. It caused religion-like discussions with extremist utterings. Disgusting. But it was in news groups without moderating, so nothing happened. Well, let's just say that more and more people left, so that there was no one left to be insulted, either.

But when people insult each other on moderated forums about classical music topics, it's at least about the subject where this board is meant to be about. And if you'd ask me how those abusive people in music-related topics should be treated, I would say: the same way as I suggested earlier. Warn them once, twice and then ban them on their third offense. What's the point of mocking, insults and hatred about whatever topic anyway? The rules say: we don't want any of that. So act accordingly, and ban the abusers. No matter what the thread is about.

If you don't want to be treated as in Kindergarten, then don't act as if you are in Kindergarten. Apologies again, kids.

[Sterna]

You're essentially echoing what I said in my first couple of posts in this thread. New membership seems to be at all-time low here and I do wonder what effect the political threads/discussions have on their decision to go any further than signing up? From the votes in this poll so far, it seems that there are more people unaffected by the political threads and don't mind that they're on GMG. We'll see where the votes go, but there does seem to be a silent minority who do feel political threads shouldn't be any part of what this forum is about.

Yes, I'm more or less echoing, so we agree.

Early november though, in a different (now closed) thread, I already said the same.

I also said there that I can live perfectly well without a board like this.
So, if I keep on feeling discouraged because of that Good Music Guide front page filled with politics-related topics, I just quit.
There are more important things in life than online talk about classical music. And I still have my e-mail friends to chat with.

[greg]

John, I suggest you ask moderator Knight66 (Mike) what the absolutely worst thread ever in terms of insults, abuse and hatred was about. You're in for a big surprise.

Was it a thread M Forever was involved in years ago?
That dude was super toxic, it made the forum almost unreadable for a while for me.
It just colored every thread with a tone of insufferable arrogance and contempt, made reading stuff to be a drag.

[Florestan]

Was it a thread M Forever was involved in years ago?

I don't know but it's quite possible. Anyway, the topic was Haydn's string quartets. 

That dude was super toxic[...]
It just colored every thread with a tone of insufferable arrogance and contempt

AFAIK, he's the only person ever to be banned from GMG.

[Florestan]

There are more important things in life than online talk about classical music.

Agreed. Tbh, I tried several times to quit GMG or at least to drastically cut the amount of time I spend here, but I failed miserably. I think I am addicted to GMG.

[Sterna]

I don't know but it's quite possible. Anyway, the topic was Haydn's string quartets. 
[...]

Well, apart from USA politics, that would be the only subject about which I would get very offensive and abusive and spiteful and hateful and everything.
So I completely understand.



(And apologies for yesterday.)

[Florestan]

(And apologies for yesterday.)

If you apologize to me, I have no idea why you would do that. I can't remember anything insulting coming from you towards me and I'm not in the habit of considering disagreement with me as a personal insult.

[steve ridgway]

There are more important things in life than online talk about classical music.

Oh I don't know. Music gives me a great deal of pleasure, why not talk about it?

[Mirror Image]

Trump changed everything for me. I had very little interest in the US politics until 4 years ago. This year has been extreme in the US politics. Election year. Year of Covid-19. Year of BLM protests. Insane! It's hard to imagine anyone not interested of politics in the current World!
That's why I hope Biden makes the US politics again so utterly boring I don't want to follow it at all!! Boring centrist corporate status quo politics like it was during Obama's eight years.

When I post about politics, I gets tons of response. When I post about music I rarely get anything so what's the point?

I have never had much interest in politics and it was actually rather rare for me to make several posts in the US politics thread, but that seems to have passed. Music is of greater concern of mine, because, at the end of the day, whether the world comes to an end or simply the human population becomes extinct, it's the one thing that hasn't betrayed me. Think about that for a second.

[Mirror Image]

John, I suggest you ask moderator Knight66 (Mike) what the absolutely worst thread ever in terms of insults, abuse and hatred was about. You're in for a big surprise.

Yeah, I have no idea what that would be, Andrei, but the consistency of ugliness in the political threads is still running rampant.

[ritter]

Since we're at it, I propose that any post denigrating  e.g. the music of Pierre Boulez, or praising, let's say, the music of Chopin, be considered trolling, and be deleted automatically and immediately, with no prior notice and no questions asked. 

I'm not a member of that other classical music forum so often mentioned here, but from what I've read (and has sometime been commented here), even if there's apparently no politics there, music discussions often degenerate into the unpleasant and the ad hominem, and I understand members interested in some areas of the repertoire have been forced out (so to speak).

The decline of new memberships here on GMG cannot be attributed AFAIK to the political thread. Let's face it, the golden age of Internet forums ended several years ago (at least from what I see in other forums here in Spain). On GMG, though, we have steady and healthy traffic of mostly very pleasant, entertaining and sometimes very informative views on music (and sometimes, from members who figure prominently in the politics thread). Let's not change that.

[Florestan]

The decline of new memberships here on GMG cannot be attributed AKAIK to the political thread. Let's face it, the golden age of Internet forums ended several years ago (at least from what I see in other forums here in Spain). On GMG, though, we have steady and healthy traffic of mostly very pleasant, entertaining and sometimes very informative views on music (and sometimes, from members who figure prominently in the politics thread). Let's not change that.

Quoted for truth.