Return (sort of)

[Spotted Horses]

I noticed, after I deleted my account, some comments to the effect that this was a 'drama queen' move. Fair enough. In retrospect I should have just logged off. Although the new member registration system is still broken DavidW was kind enough to get this account established.

As to my reasons for leaving, I was dissatisfied with the way things were developing on this board, with some members repeatedly violating the rules and norms of the board with impunity. Having a half-days worth of my postings deleted simply because I observed that a certain event occurred during the administration of a certain president was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

The reason for deleting my account was to remove the temptation to return. I will see if I can resist that temptation.

[Karl Henning]

Good to see you!

[ritter]

Welcome back, Spotted Horses! You are a valued member of this forum.

[Florestan]

Welcome back! You've been missed.

[JBS]

Welcome back and post when and as you wish.

[Kalevala]

Good to have you back!

K

[Papy Oli]

Welcome back SH. 

[Lisztianwagner]

Welcome back! 

[foxandpeng]

I'm very glad to see your return.

[vandermolen]

I'm very glad to see your return.

Me too - Welcome back!
 

[Madiel]

Having a half-days worth of my postings deleted simply because I observed that a certain event occurred during the administration of a certain president was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

And understandably so. Few things mystify me more than the persistent belief that deleting or moving reams of posts is the solution for everything. Except perhaps the hyperbolic reaction to things that really don't warrant such reactions. I have come to expect these problems with certain algorithms (in a Tori Amos Facebook group we have to change the titles of 2 songs because Meta's computers get tremendously upset if we use the actual titles). It's frankly disappointing when our human moderators jump into immediate action in a similar way, and I've had at least a couple of occasions where they've had to admit to me afterwards that they made a mistake.

The reason for deleting my account was to remove the temptation to return. I will see if I can resist that temptation.

Duly noted. But I hope that we change direction sufficiently that you feel tempted.

[Kalevala]

Please DO stay. 

K

[Traverso]

I noticed, after I deleted my account, some comments to the effect that this was a 'drama queen' move. Fair enough. In retrospect I should have just logged off. Although the new member registration system is still broken DavidW was kind enough to get this account established.

As to my reasons for leaving, I was dissatisfied with the way things were developing on this board, with some members repeatedly violating the rules and norms of the board with impunity. Having a half-days worth of my postings deleted simply because I observed that a certain event occurred during the administration of a certain president was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

The reason for deleting my account was to remove the temptation to return. I will see if I can resist that temptation.

I don't know what all happened, I mainly attend the "What are you  listening 2 now...) thread and therefore stay out of the sword fights that take place elsewhere on the forum. There is a lot of immature behavior and there is no place in the world you can go where that is not present. Come back I would say, your presence is certainly appreciated.

[DavidW]

I am the moderator who deleted Spotted Horses' posts. I bet you would be surprised that he was one of my favorite posters here, but it is true. And I am not lying. I always enjoyed seeing what he was listening to, his opinions, his takes on music, his takes on audiophilia. I'm there for all of it. Frankly, more than most of you, if not all of you.

But I think that many of you (frankly, any of you who liked Madiel's post) have memory issues or simple comprehension issues. Probably more than half of the posters on this forum have left because they just could not stand the TOXIC POSTS about US Politics over and over and over and over again across the years. These comments were just filling up every corner of the diner. I know that some posters like Traverso are wise and just avoid the diner, but the reality is that many just can't take it. And frankly, they should not have to.

And those of you who are not from the US need to understand that US politics is POISON. Now more than ever. I can't believe that in the wake of post-9/11 and the second Gulf War, it is worse, but it is absolutely EXPONENTIALLY WORSE. It has gotten to a point where half the people in the USA demonize the other half and can't see eye to eye AT ALL.

Even in the diner, this is supposed to be an oasis from that constant negativity. It drives people to depression and drinking. It turns neighbors against each other. It has almost led to a civil war. And I am not joking. This forum is about enjoying Mozart and garbage that Ritter likes, such as Wagner and Stockhausen.

It turns out it drives out people in droves, and action needs to be taken when even posters that we appreciate, like Spotted Horses, cross the line. There is a need for strict moderation on US politics after all this time, and if you are a long-time poster and you don't appreciate that fact, then shame on YOU for your myopia and lack of empathy.

And if you want me to resign because you can't see the bigger picture, I will take it on the chin, unlike others and continue to post here without my moderation status.

But you need to understand that this is not supposed to be an echo chamber for either political party. This is supposed to be a place where we share our passion for classical music.

I take these actions not because I enjoy it or because I am on a power trip. I don't take it because I'm out of my mind on some kind of puritanical ego trip. I don't take action out of posters I don't like. I just want the forum NOT to DIE. And it is on LIFE SUPPORT. Can you realize how close we are to the death of the forum?

I have posted here since the early 2000s. And I'm telling you the cup runneth over then; there was so many posters, so much discussion. It was FANTASTIC. But today... there are a handful of active posters here, and if one thing goes wrong, the forum is dead forever. And that would be a shame. I'm such a hard-nosed jerk because I don't want that to happen.

Did you know that I checked the list of new, unregistered members nearly EVERY DAY for Spotted Horses return? And then it took me at least half an hour of fighting with the garbage forum software to get him to return. If you think that I am such a selfish, foolish moderator... would you do the same? WOULD YOU?

[hopefullytrusting]

I am the moderator who deleted Spotted Horses' posts. I bet you would be surprised that he was one of my favorite posters here, but it is true. And I am not lying. I always enjoyed seeing what he was listening to, his opinions, his takes on music, his takes on audiophilia. I'm there for all of it. Frankly, more than most of you, if not all of you.

But I think that many of you (frankly, any of you who liked Madiel's post) have memory issues or simple comprehension issues. Probably more than half of the posters on this forum have left because they just could not stand the TOXIC POSTS about US Politics over and over and over and over again across the years. These comments were just filling up every corner of the diner. I know that some posters like Traverso are wise and just avoid the diner, but the reality is that many just can't take it. And frankly, they should not have to.

And those of you who are not from the US need to understand that US politics is POISON. Now more than ever. I can't believe that in the wake of post-9/11 and the second Gulf War, it is worse, but it is absolutely EXPONENTIALLY WORSE. It has gotten to a point where half the people in the USA demonize the other half and can't see eye to eye AT ALL.

Even in the diner, this is supposed to be an oasis from that constant negativity. It drives people to depression and drinking. It turns neighbors against each other. It has almost led to a civil war. And I am not joking. This forum is about enjoying Mozart and garbage that Ritter likes, such as Wagner and Stockhausen.

It turns out it drives out people in droves, and action needs to be taken when even posters that we appreciate, like Spotted Horses, cross the line. There is a need for strict moderation on US politics after all this time, and if you are a long-time poster and you don't appreciate that fact, then shame on YOU for your myopia and lack of empathy.

And if you want me to resign because you can't see the bigger picture, I will take it on the chin, unlike others and continue to post here without my moderation status.

But you need to understand that this is not supposed to be an echo chamber for either political party. This is supposed to be a place where we share our passion for classical music.

I take these actions not because I enjoy it or because I am on a power trip. I don't take it because I'm out of my mind on some kind of puritanical ego trip. I don't take action out of posters I don't like. I just want the forum NOT to DIE. And it is on LIFE SUPPORT. Can you realize how close we are to the death of the forum?

I have posted here since the early 2000s. And I'm telling you the cup runneth over then; there was so many posters, so much discussion. It was FANTASTIC. But today... there are a handful of active posters here, and if one thing goes wrong, the forum is dead forever. And that would be a shame. I'm such a hard-nosed jerk because I don't want that to happen.

Did you know that I checked the list of new, unregistered members nearly EVERY DAY for Spotted Horses return? And then it took me at least half an hour of fighting with the garbage forum software to get him to return. If you think that I am such a selfish, foolish moderator... would you do the same? WOULD YOU?

As @Karl Henning might do, *pounds table*

[Madiel]

Yeah. This just demonstrates the exact point in my post that people were liking.

The mere mention of the name Trump does not mean a post is about US politics in a meaningful sense. THIS POST is not about US politics in a meaningful sense. Turning Trump into Voldemort just causes ridiculous twists and turns (and I note that in various instances people in the Harry Potter books mention Voldemort without being suddenly struck down, sometimes that's the point) where people can't sensibly refer to things. Who the president was when an event occurred, without more, is simply a historical fact.


If you leap into action the second that Trump is mentioned without more, you really are behaving like the Facebook algorithm I referred to. Without context.

The last time I had a moderator say something to me, you were one of the 2 moderators involved and it was genuinely absurd. Claiming that discussing a performer on a new release was irrelevant in the New Releases thread was nothing more than reaching for a justification for saying something else entirely. The discussion about how absurd this was ended up being a lot longer than the initial conversation the moderators were apparently worried about. And why? Because you're frankly trigger happy. On at least one occasion David, you're the moderator who I got to admit to me that you were trigger happy. And while rapidly sweeping things away might make some forum members who can't handle the least sign of conflict relieved, it can also really annoy some of us who weren't actually trying to create the firestorm you panicked about.

I can also think of at least one time when a moderator deleted a post of mine that they'd misread. It didn't say what they thought (and what at least some posters thought perhaps). Maybe my choice of expression made my meaning unclear, but maybe that could've been cleared up if the first move hadn't been deletion.

I don't have a problem with the moderators stepping in when required. But just count to 10 a bit more often. For one thing, the capacity to lock threads for a time doesn't just give posters a chance to cool off, it gives the moderators a chance as well. And quite frankly sometimes it's the moderators who need it.

[Kalevala]

I am the moderator who deleted Spotted Horses' posts. I bet you would be surprised that he was one of my favorite posters here, but it is true. And I am not lying. I always enjoyed seeing what he was listening to, his opinions, his takes on music, his takes on audiophilia. I'm there for all of it. Frankly, more than most of you, if not all of you.

But I think that many of you (frankly, any of you who liked Madiel's post) have memory issues or simple comprehension issues. Probably more than half of the posters on this forum have left because they just could not stand the TOXIC POSTS about US Politics over and over and over and over again across the years. These comments were just filling up every corner of the diner. I know that some posters like Traverso are wise and just avoid the diner, but the reality is that many just can't take it. And frankly, they should not have to.

And those of you who are not from the US need to understand that US politics is POISON. Now more than ever. I can't believe that in the wake of post-9/11 and the second Gulf War, it is worse, but it is absolutely EXPONENTIALLY WORSE. It has gotten to a point where half the people in the USA demonize the other half and can't see eye to eye AT ALL.

Even in the diner, this is supposed to be an oasis from that constant negativity. It drives people to depression and drinking. It turns neighbors against each other. It has almost led to a civil war. And I am not joking. This forum is about enjoying Mozart and garbage that Ritter likes, such as Wagner and Stockhausen.

It turns out it drives out people in droves, and action needs to be taken when even posters that we appreciate, like Spotted Horses, cross the line. There is a need for strict moderation on US politics after all this time, and if you are a long-time poster and you don't appreciate that fact, then shame on YOU for your myopia and lack of empathy.

And if you want me to resign because you can't see the bigger picture, I will take it on the chin, unlike others and continue to post here without my moderation status.

But you need to understand that this is not supposed to be an echo chamber for either political party. This is supposed to be a place where we share our passion for classical music.

I take these actions not because I enjoy it or because I am on a power trip. I don't take it because I'm out of my mind on some kind of puritanical ego trip. I don't take action out of posters I don't like. I just want the forum NOT to DIE. And it is on LIFE SUPPORT. Can you realize how close we are to the death of the forum?

I have posted here since the early 2000s. And I'm telling you the cup runneth over then; there was so many posters, so much discussion. It was FANTASTIC. But today... there are a handful of active posters here, and if one thing goes wrong, the forum is dead forever. And that would be a shame. I'm such a hard-nosed jerk because I don't want that to happen.

Did you know that I checked the list of new, unregistered members nearly EVERY DAY for Spotted Horses return? And then it took me at least half an hour of fighting with the garbage forum software to get him to return. If you think that I am such a selfish, foolish moderator... would you do the same? WOULD YOU?

I feel for you...truly!  I don't remember the posts, but that said,  I believe that you did what you thought was right.  And politics can be really divisive; I do get that.  And yes, I truly think that you try to be kind.  And as an American, it matters to me that we can talk kindly to each other and listen to what the other side has to say; we're in this together...along with the rest of the world.  You are not alone: 

K

[Madiel]

As for the actual toxicity of US politics, I have no dispute. The relevant thread was quite awful when I poked my head into it occasionally.

But frankly, we may have different views about exactly why so many people left the forum.

[Karl Henning]

I am the moderator who deleted Spotted Horses' posts. I bet you would be surprised that he was one of my favorite posters here, but it is true. And I am not lying. I always enjoyed seeing what he was listening to, his opinions, his takes on music, his takes on audiophilia. I'm there for all of it. Frankly, more than most of you, if not all of you.

But I think that many of you (frankly, any of you who liked Madiel's post) have memory issues or simple comprehension issues. Probably more than half of the posters on this forum have left because they just could not stand the TOXIC POSTS about US Politics over and over and over and over again across the years. These comments were just filling up every corner of the diner. I know that some posters like Traverso are wise and just avoid the diner, but the reality is that many just can't take it. And frankly, they should not have to.

And those of you who are not from the US need to understand that US politics is POISON. Now more than ever. I can't believe that in the wake of post-9/11 and the second Gulf War, it is worse, but it is absolutely EXPONENTIALLY WORSE. It has gotten to a point where half the people in the USA demonize the other half and can't see eye to eye AT ALL.

Even in the diner, this is supposed to be an oasis from that constant negativity. It drives people to depression and drinking. It turns neighbors against each other. It has almost led to a civil war. And I am not joking. This forum is about enjoying Mozart and garbage that Ritter likes, such as Wagner and Stockhausen.

It turns out it drives out people in droves, and action needs to be taken when even posters that we appreciate, like Spotted Horses, cross the line. There is a need for strict moderation on US politics after all this time, and if you are a long-time poster and you don't appreciate that fact, then shame on YOU for your myopia and lack of empathy.

And if you want me to resign because you can't see the bigger picture, I will take it on the chin, unlike others and continue to post here without my moderation status.

But you need to understand that this is not supposed to be an echo chamber for either political party. This is supposed to be a place where we share our passion for classical music.

I take these actions not because I enjoy it or because I am on a power trip. I don't take it because I'm out of my mind on some kind of puritanical ego trip. I don't take action out of posters I don't like. I just want the forum NOT to DIE. And it is on LIFE SUPPORT. Can you realize how close we are to the death of the forum?

I have posted here since the early 2000s. And I'm telling you the cup runneth over then; there was so many posters, so much discussion. It was FANTASTIC. But today... there are a handful of active posters here, and if one thing goes wrong, the forum is dead forever. And that would be a shame. I'm such a hard-nosed jerk because I don't want that to happen.

Did you know that I checked the list of new, unregistered members nearly EVERY DAY for Spotted Horses return? And then it took me at least half an hour of fighting with the garbage forum software to get him to return. If you think that I am such a selfish, foolish moderator... would you do the same? WOULD YOU?

An entirely admirable and enlightening post. Not all of us would have the courage and integrity to lay it all on the line as you have here done. Proud that you're a friend of mine.

[SimonNZ]

I have posted here since the early 2000s. And I'm telling you the cup runneth over then; there was so many posters, so much discussion. It was FANTASTIC. But today... there are a handful of active posters here, and if one thing goes wrong, the forum is dead forever. And that would be a shame. I'm such a hard-nosed jerk because I don't want that to happen.

This is true of most forums that have been around from the early 2000s and are still struggling on. I usually see the blame put on Facebook, and the migrations said to start long before Trump.

But I don't disagree with everything else you've written.