Carmen!

[Tsaraslondon]

Well I keep saying it, but if French is what you want, then Callas/Pretre is a good bet. Apart from the two principals, the whole cast, orchestra, chorus and conductor are French and Gedda was, for many years, the best French tenor around. As for Callas, well she may not sound French, but her performance is French in feel and, anyway, it is not inappropriate for the Carmen to sound a tad exotic. To quote Richard Osborne in Gramophone

[Callas's] Carmen is one of those rare experiences like Piaf singing La Vie En Rose or Dietrich in The Blue Angelwhich is inimitable, unforgettable, and on no account to be missed.

[zamyrabyrd]

Well I keep saying it, but if French is what you want, then Callas/Pretre is a good bet. Apart from the two principals, the whole cast, orchestra, chorus and conductor are French and Gedda was, for many years, the best French tenor around. As for Callas, well she may not sound French, but her performance is French in feel and, anyway, it is not inappropriate for the Carmen to sound a tad exotic. To quote Richard Osborne in Gramophone

[Callas's] Carmen is one of those rare experiences like Piaf singing La Vie En Rose or Dietrich in The Blue Angelwhich is inimitable, unforgettable, and on no account to be missed.

As she also spoke the langue very convincingly, Callas is francaise enough for me.

ZB

[Lilas Pastia]

Callas' spoken French was good, but unmistakably accented (as per various French TV interviews). Her sung French however was flawless in all her recordings (this Carmen and the many arias she recorded). She is by far the most natural sounding non-French singer I'ver heard and verbally outpoints many natives.

Callas' longtime diction coach was Janine Reiss, who incredibly is still active and much sought after. An opera singer herself, and an accomplished harpsichordist, she is heard in that capacity accompanying the recitatives in the Losey Don Giovanni.

That being said, I'm not a fan of that version. I find her Carmen harsh and shrewish. I don't enjoy the multilingual RCA Karajan or Decca Schippers either. The multiplicity of accents is funny for the first few minutes but lets one down badly after a while. I'd rather have the all-american accented Bernstein version, where (sorry, Mike!) I just love the conducting! The second Karajan version is overblown and Baltsa is as shrewish as Callas. Better not to mention Carreras' effortful don José. I believe he was already ill at the time of the recording.

There is no perfect Carmen. It's one of those operas where record companies regularly place big bets (and big names), but the soufflé falls flat all too often. Bumbry-Frühbeck is very fine by me, but Vickers is almost unbearable here: no finesse or elegance whatsoever, a fatal flaw in french opera. And his crooning up to a falsetto high note at the end of the Flower aria is embarrassing . The Losey works as a film because of Migenes Johnson's sultry acting, but not as audio only. The only all-French version I know (with Crespin) is not involving at all. It's DOA.

I'm waiting to listen to the Abbado DG when I have some time.

[Que]

The only all-French version I know (with Crespin) is not involving at all. It's DOA.

I'm waiting to listen to the Abbado DG when I have some time.

What about the Opéra-Comique version by Cluytens with Michel and Jobin?



Q

[Sergeant Rock]

:-)

Even when beginning a sentence (or sentence fragment)? (He asks with genuine orthographical interest.)

M would tell you to write Karajan rather than von Karajan. Only use the von when spelling out his full name. It's the same rule that applies to Beethoven. Beethoven, correct; van Beethoven, incorrect.

Sarge

[Lilas Pastia]

What about the Opéra-Comique version by Cluytens with Michel and Jobin?



Q

It's probably the best one, bar none. But still not perfect. Even though Jobin has the language, he doesn't have the passion. His is a big, beefy tenor, suitably engaged but seemingly incapable of true passion. That proves true with all his many recordings. He must have been an accountant in an earlier life. But he will certainly do. Solange Michel is excellent in the title role, and so is Michel Dens as Escamilo. Martha Angelici is suitably girlish. Cluytens conducts with flair and passion. The fly in the ointment is the sound. Although it's been refurbished, it pales next to all the stereo versions which reveal much more of Bizet's wondrous melodies and superb orchestration.

I would say it's mandatory along with your favourite stereo version.

[knight66]

Odd that there are no versions on which we have reached a consensus. I wonder if it is anything to do with it having origins in Opera Comique traditions, despite its subject matter, but has been hijacked into Grand Opera?

Perhaps we basically are attempting it with the wrong sort of voices and betraying the real French essence of it.

Mike

[Que]

Odd that there are no versions on which we have reached a consensus. I wonder if it is anything to do with it having origins in Opera Comique traditions, despite its subject matter, but has been hijacked into Grand Opera?

Perhaps we basically are attempting it with the wrong sort of voices and betraying the real French essence of it.

Mike

Mike, I think that analysis is spot on! The tradition that created these works has simply vanished...
But anything lost, could be retrieved - maybe it's time for some HIP French opera!

Q

[knight66]

Now who should sing it and who conduct it I wonder?

"Notable composers in the history of Opéra-Comique include Auber, Halévy, Berlioz and Bizet. Opéra-Comique staged the first performance of Bizet's Carmen.

Berlioz's The Damnation of Faust received its ill-fated première on 6 December 1846 at the Opéra-Comique. It was one of the worst setbacks in his career, leaving him heavily in debt and profoundly affecting his attitude to the performance of his music in Paris.

Another striking première in the history of the Opéra-Comique was that of Debussy's only opera, Pelléas et Mélisande, on 30 April 1902."

I had no idea that either Berlioz or Debussy had aimed their pieces at that neck of the woods. Clearly, it did not have to be light or frothy, but quintessentially French and we tend not to really know how these pieces were performed back then. I suspect lighter voices, a conversational pace and not trying to burst your eardrums with a modern orchestral sound.

Mike

[longears]

I like the Karajan/Price Carmen.  It's alive.  (Imagine Dr. Frankenstein as his creation awakens.)

I also like Abbado/Berganza.  These two recordings are like dawn and dusk. 

[Valentino]

M would tell you to write Karajan rather than von Karajan. Only use the von when spelling out his full name. It's the same rule that applies to Beethoven. Beethoven, correct; van Beethoven, incorrect.

Great, Sarge. Now I know.

[Hector]

It's probably the best one, bar none. But still not perfect. Even though Jobin has the language, he doesn't have the passion. His is a big, beefy tenor, suitably engaged but seemingly incapable of true passion. That proves true with all his many recordings. He must have been an accountant in an earlier life. But he will certainly do. Solange Michel is excellent in the title role, and so is Michel Dens as Escamilo. Martha Angelici is suitably girlish. Cluytens conducts with flair and passion. The fly in the ointment is the sound. Although it's been refurbished, it pales next to all the stereo versions which reveal much more of Bizet's wondrous melodies and superb orchestration.

I would say it's mandatory along with your favourite stereo version.

For all its faults it is, probably, as close as you are ever likely to get on record to the Opera Comique.

The last line of your post is spot on.

[Lilas Pastia]

On the subject of diction and generally speaking verbal communication, I saw a youtube video of Nathalie Dessay in the Queen of the Night's second act aria. Although she hits the notes, the delivery is cautious because she has trouble getting the words out. Her french-accented German is almost laughable(*). This made me realise that diction is not a given in any language. That problem may be at its most conspicious in french opera, and will be least noticed in italian and english opera. All singers train hard in italian and 2/3 of the repertory is in that language. As for English, it's the language of contacts and contracts, so of course they all get to speak it reasonably well .  Practice makes for better results.

I'ver never heard the whole Beecham Carmen, but de Los angeles is my favourite singer in those big arias.

Incidentally, AFAIK Lilas Pastia has the distinction of being the only minor character whose name is mentioned in a popular opera aria

[knight66]

Here is Obratsova conducted by Kleiber in Carmen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rtW9HNNO8k&mode=related&search=

I seem to recollect that Karajan said she had the voice of a wild animal. I am not sure whether that was a compliament. I wonder what language she is singing, some Gypsy argot. However, I like what Kleiber does.

Mike

[Steve]

I, too have come to appreciate Karajan in this piece. However, my version on EMI Classics with Callas, remains my default set. 

[knight66]

As an aside Gramophone republishes its original crit on the de Sabata Tosca. They give it a very mixed reception and come down firmly of the opinion that Callas is bland up against Tebaldi who does more with the words!!!!

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Wanna read about Carmen?

http://www.usdla.org/html/journal/MAR02_Issue/article05.html

"...While one might make a case that Eve, Lilith or Delilah were "earlier Carmens," the original Carmen story appeared in 1845 by the French author, Prosper Merimee, who claimed to have earlier heard a Spanish legend from a noblewoman he knew in Madrid. Writing a short novel, Merimee introduces us to the interesting, cavalier activities of a learned, likeable French scholar traveling in Spain. He narrates amusing anecdotes and describes his meetings with bandit José, who in turn recounts his troubles with gypsy Carmen and her many lovers, including Lucas, a minor hero of the Andalusian bullring. The scholar also dallied dangerously with Carmen, who steals his heirloom watch and otherwise treats him shabbily..."

[zamyrabyrd]

Here's Carmen again, splashing in the communal bath at Lilas Pastia's. Or WHAT was it supposed to be, bathtub gin? I must admit that THIS sticks in my mind rather than the competent passionate singing of Villazon. Carmen herself was OK in that she had the right vocal colour, but really she was upstaged by all the rest of the inanity on stage like the cigar ladies stripping down to their underwear.

I caught this production on TV yesterday just around that particular melee and thought these ladies were from a ballet company changing into their tutus. Otherwise, one doesn't expect chorus members to be so svelte. The music conducted my Daniel Barenboim was rather a footnote. A pity, really.

ZB

[Tsaraslondon]

I caught this production on TV yesterday just around that particular melee and thought these ladies were from a ballet company changing into their tutus. Otherwise, one doesn't expect chorus members to be so svelte. The music conducted my Daniel Barenboim was rather a footnote. A pity, really.

ZB

And in many ways, Carmen is the perfect chorus opera. As they represent real people - workers from the cigarette factory, smugglers, townsfolk etc - one would expect them to be all shapes and sizes, which choruses usually are.

[Lilas Pastia]

This is right on the mark about the chorus' role in Carmen. Few operas have such a lively array of singing folks than this one. Most other operas usually present the same bunch of villagers, peasants, huntsmen or sundry sailors and gipsies.

I don't know of a more magical choral entrance than the soldiers' in the first act :

La cloche a sonné, nous des ouvrières,
nous venons ici, guetter le retour.

And the cigarette girls' reply:

Dans l'air nous suivons des yeux,
La fumée, la fumée

And for dramatically raising the temperature to fever pitch, nothing beats the various groups in the last act. I get goosebumps every time I hear this:

Une autre quadrille s'avance,
Voyez les picadors: comme ils sont beaux!